Born Black, In This White Man's World

As I am reading news post on Mexican Racist Postage Stamps that Depict the old school coon caricatures, i felt I had to say something after seeing the views of certain posters.

Your words make it seem as if you have no idea of the psychological, cultural and social ramifications of the dominance and subjugation of Whites over Blacks in this country (USA).
You must be kidding.

Does it make sense to you to use these black face humiliation cartoons? Do you condone these jokes?

2 me it doesn't make sense to make fun of black people. Or hate them. Or look down upon them.


Why do so many white people refuse to empathize with the psychological barrage that a black child will have to be exposed to here in the US even today?

Not to mention whatever generational history of poverty and miseducation that his family may or may not have raised him in.
No money.
No inspiration.
No real indication throughout his childhood that he was capable of succeeding in this society.
It takes more than telling a kid, "You can be anything you want 2 be!!" Getting that kid to develop the self esteem and confidence to believe in himself is the key!

Understand?

Or maybe he was a wealthy black child who lived in a nice neighborhood and went to a private school (less likely scenario but just as real).
Who is only just starting to be aware that he is once again the only black guy in his class.
His freinds (all white) are also becoming aware of his difference.
They say a joke about his fuzzy hair.
"N!gg R", he is inevitably called during one recess.
The boy who said it didnt know what it MEANT... he just heard it from his big brother - who heard it from one of his classmates at their junior high.
Devastating...

"Why do they make fun of me mommy?"

"Why do they make fun of me Jesus?"

Why? Why? WHY!

Eventually he will stop questioning and accept that he can never be as accepted and respected as all his other friends.

I didnt mean to be black he says to himself... (Very strong psychological stuff for a child to develop from)

Also, he feels embarrased and confused when his cousins' friends make fun of him for "talkin like a white boy".
He doesnt fit in with his own family members.
They ridicule him because they have been taught along generational lines that these white people are MEAN, sadstic MFers to them, and have been since before your great, great, great, great, great grandfather was around!

Either way he is FL!CKED! (Can I say fl!cked!)
This stuff goes deeply into the psyche.

It is hurtful and alarming to hear seemingly smart people refuse to EMPATHIZE with the uphil battle that is LIFE for black americans (and globally).

This was just the tip of the iceberg. Just an initial attempt to get people to understand how it must feel to be a black kid in this "White Man's World".
Just one small point of reason that admittedly doesnt scratch the surface.

Understand what is at play here.

[edit on 9/13/2005 by theBLESSINGofVISION]

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I have not read the thread you are talking about, but I will respond to yours.

Why do so many white people refuse to empathize with the psychological barrage that a black child will have to be exposed to here in the US even today?

I, personally, do empathize with people of all races, including my own. However I have no control over what any child, other than my own, is exposed to.

2 me it doesn't make sense to make fun of black people. Or hate them. Or look down upon them.

I agree.

Understand?

I understand completely what you are saying up to this point.

But then your post starts rambling about a totally different set of circumstances. I can't figure out which one you identify with.

Either way, I am sure you are aware that race is a touchy subject. It obviously is one that few are brave enough to discuss.

I think the anger in your post is probably the reason no one else has replied.

I will say that I am not personally responsible for what someone in my family may or may not have done 100 + years ago.

I don't hate all Germans because of Hitler. That would be insane logic. I wasn't even there. Thank God for that. That does not mean that I don't hate what happened there, but you get my point, right?

I don't hate white people for the killing of the Native Americans. I was not there for that incident either. Thank God for that.

I don't hate Mongolians for what Atilla the Hun did. Same logic as before.

I don't hate the Spanish for killing of the native people in what is now Mexico.

I understand that you are disturbed by bigotry and race hate. Me too.

I'm going to read the thread that set you off now.




[edit on 14-9-2005 by John bull 1]

I think that media can play a part of this. When I turn on MTV I see hip hop with half naked women shakin' their rears, being called hos and biatches. There's an overwhelming amount of premarital sex many times with no strings, the bling bling, the cars, oh did I mention the sex Of course everyone has heard that point before. When I go out in public and see what younger black people wear, let's just say that many of them look like thugs and speak "ghetto". How can anybody ever take you seriously if this is the type of person you are?

Then there's my personal experience with working with blacks. I first want to say that when it comes to the personal relationships with most of these guys, they are usually cool guys that I get along well with. When it comes to work however, a lot of them "move their mouths and not their hands"-as my Mexican coworker says. And I've hung out with some of the Mexicans after work and they do complain about the black guys at work(this isn't just one company I've worked for either). The general idea is that the blacks, not all, but in general are not pulling their weight and basically goof off, or are telling stories, or reading newspapers-so these Mexicans and other guys often half to work overtime to help finish their jobs. That is the case at my current job as well. I work with a black guy who is the coolest guy in the world and we're friends out of work. When it comes to work, however, he's just plain slow and I often find myself having to do most of the work, so the boss doesn't think we're slacking. And he's on his cell half the other time. He's not slow when it comes to running (he runs a 4.4), or when he's talking.

My point here is this: I know these are generalizations and I'll probably be called a racist, but these experiences make it hard to have a good opinion of blacks, at least their integrity in the work place. I know that there are hard working black people out there, don't get me wrong.
What alot of them need is self determination, and integrity. Go to school and study hard, sports don't work out for everyone. If you're working, work hard. It's a capitalistic country, so it's competitive. A lot of poeple have to start at the bottom and make thier way up. Don't slack and think the world owes you something and let this turn into a reocurring theme.

Just my 2 cents.

Ok, I have read the other thread now and I will just repeat what I posted earlier and that is, you sound very angry. I truely hope you are able to work through that and come to terms with all of the stuff going on in your head. angry is not a fun place to be, my friend.

I was not offended by the posts on that thread, but then again, I don't get offended very often. That's just my personality too.


Also, Prodicaliforniason, I completely understand your positions and perceptions and can only say to you that perhaps you need more working experiences with black people. Then you will notice that there is a slacker in every bunch and that is not race inclusive. I do not think you are a racist.

Originally posted by theBLESSINGofVISION
Either way he is FL!CKED! (Can I say fl!cked!)

No. Circumventing the censors is actually worse than cursing. Don't do it at all please, and we prefer you not curse either but as it does happen, only as absolutely sparinging as possible (and never at other members). Thanks.

[edit on 13-9-2005 by RANT]

What is it that you want that is different than what I have?
What is it that you expect that is above and beyond the black men and women with whom I earn my money, eat my lunches and share communities?

Your life is harder than mine? Try being an individual and not a minority victim.

Stop whining, you only hurt your own self. Not my words, but the words of black people who get sick of hearing this drivel.

Originally posted by uplander
But then your post starts rambling about a totally different set of circumstances. I can't figure out which one you identify with.
I will say that I am not personally responsible for what someone in my family may or may not have done 100 + years ago.

I dont necessarily "identify" with either. These 2 examples were used to eliminate the "rich man/poor man debate". Both sides of the coin.
My reason 4 posting this is simply to explain how it might feel to be exposed to realities, here in the US.

RESPONSIBLE? You misunderstand.

Please dont feel like i am talking to all whites...
I apologize if anyone got this impression.

I gotta tell ya several people who responded have been very defensive. I reread my words and honestly i dont know what ii said to have this be an attack on all white people.
I stand by my assertion that many people are outraged when someone asks the to take a moment and TRY to look at it from a perspective that they dont understand.
Obviously these people think they understand and are unreceptive to differing opinions.

I am half caucasoid / half negroid. Mother being white. Parents divorced at early childhood. Have SEPARATE white family and black family and am accepted unconditionally in both. Learned both sides of the numerous black white issues from observance. Yes observance. No one in my family force fed me their beliefs... I was blessed...

That makes me... um... perhaps... highly qualified to "preach" understanding.

Don't feel bad about your concerns with our society , actually you has notice so far that when it comes to discussing racial issues in our nation and here in these boards many will turn their faces to the real facts.

that after so many years our nation is still very racial when it comes to skin and class.

That is a fact and it should be addressed no ignored.

I live in the south and I see everyday the struggle of both side, because actually the ruling minority is always target by the racial majority.

I never in my life has been exposed to the racial struggles before until I came to the south.

IT goes both ways so is not only limited to two kinds is spreads to others racial backgrounds also.


[edit on 14-9-2005 by marg6043]

Originally posted by Prodicaliforniason
When I go out in public and see what younger black people wear, let's just say that many of them look like thugs and speak "ghetto". How can anybody ever take you seriously if this is the type of person you are?

Society (media) portrayed a glamorous, glorious outlaw lifestyle and saturated black adolescants with it. It became cool to be forced to be in a violent, drug, sex, sinfest to survive.
It glorified those whose only means were to be criminals.
It deemphasized the effects of this life.
This happened a couple of decades ago and was nurtured by movies, etc.
The only "cool" means 4 a black teen to rebel (as most teens do) was in this archtype.
Then the consequences start rolling in. Then it is too late. You have thown your life away and you were too young to know it.
But no understanding of why... huh, pal?
Just judgement.
What they wear? Thug looking? Ghetto speaking?
Taken seriously? Why not? Judge the book not the cover. Right? Yes? No?

Originally posted by RANT
No. Circumventing the censors is actually worse than cursing.

I apologize. I cant edit it for some reason. Maybe cause the topic moved?


AHHH... Mr Crowne...

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
What is it that you want that is different than what I have?

I guess it would be the desire for you to understand what i am saying and more importantly why I said it.
One must be receptive to the feelings and psyche of other people in order to attempt be judgemental to their actions.
This is elementary... 2 me... I thought it was 2 others as well.
This is one manifestation of this! And a relevant one at that.
Look at the broader theme.
Understanding those who you do not agree with.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
What is it that you expect that is above and beyond the black men and women with whom I earn my money, eat my lunches and share communities?

I dont understand what this question means,
or why you ask it.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Your life is harder than mine?

Quite alarmed at this ?question?
Slow down big guy.
Not trying to say one man's plight/struggle is any more a hardship/burden than the next man's.
Again, I'm dissapointed at this reaction.
Why do think Im saying this.
I am saying UNDERSTAND this particular dynamic!

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Try being an individual and not a minority victim.

Me a minority victim?!?!
Personal attacks based on warped assertions are beneath you, stranger.
We are all better thn that.
Victim?
?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Stop whining, you only hurt your own self. Not my words, but the words of black people who get sick of hearing this drivel.

Whining?
Why do I have to be a whiner in your eyes.
I'm just tryin to enlighten with a perspective you apparently have already overruled in your mind. (heart really)

--recap--

1.)This was NOT a shot at "Whites" in general. No No No!
I am white.
Black too.
Really i am!
Stop to absorb this.

2.)No reason for me to try and creatively use the f word. Foolish and it wont happen again.

3.)Outlaw gangster youth culture out of control. Speculation of how and why it became so prevalent will surely be threaded soon.

4.) Yada, yada, yada. Thomas Crowne, please reread my original post - this time removing your preconcieved notions. Sounds like you said to yourself, "Another black guy lookin 4 handouts of some sort because the actions of my forefathers"
Something like that, perhaps?
Far from it, sir! (Will you accept this)
Im dead serious. No underhanded agenda in my rants!

5.) SUGARLUMP...
Your SCATHING u2u was out of line.
I wont repeat it because you wanted it 2 be a man 2 man.
Fine.
Just this..

your self pitying post disgusts me

You have no right to be disgusted by my words.
I am not even disgusted by your misinterpretations and condescending tone with me.

How can a black man know what it is to walk in a white man's skin, and vice-versa?

How can the poor man know how it feels to step out of a limousine to a fawning crowd of clowns, waiting to serve his every whimb of un-necessity?

He can not know.

The rich man can never know the poor man's pain - to be looked down upon and pittied for his low station and percieved ignorance.

The straight person can never know how the gay person feels, to know they are a target... whispered about in cruel terms behind their back.. and plotted against b/c they are "queer" and less than human.

Until we walk in another's shoes, literally, we cannot know how it feels to be in their skin. But we can strive to walk among those who are different from us - and to learn what it is to be where they walk.

Racism persists. It is a human condition that has been with us since the dawn of mankind. It is one of those things that we must constantly strive to overcome as enlightened people. Are race relations ok here in the U.S.? I would say its better now (at least on the surface) than its ever been... but we still have a long way to go.

One more thing.... those who are born into poverty (whatever race) ARE at a great disadvantage. It is much harder for those people to pull themselves up out of poverty and to succeed in the world. Anyone who denies that is a liar or completely out of touch with reality.

marg6043
Your reply made me smile.
I was pretty discouraged!

East Coast Kid
Good points!

Until we walk in another's shoes, literally, we cannot know how it feels to be in their skin. But we can strive to walk among those who are different from us - and to learn what it is to be where they walk.

Summed it ALL up with an understandable, recognizeable, concise truism. Thats wisdom folks! Literally a conclusion forged in pure WISDOM.
Duly noted!

You throw that laundry list of stuff on the baord, and then you play me off like you don't understand what I am saying? You even try and pretend like you have no idea what I mean when I make a simple statement?

Ok, let me break it down for you, and please, take your time reading this:

It isn't a "White Man's World", in the sense that white men have some secret ring-knocking leg up on anyone else. I am a white man, and I assure you, we have to work for whatever we might might have. As a matter of fact, it isn't even white men who are molding culture, but the black youth with their dress "style" and music.

You have the same opportunities I do, but with a few extra governmental bennies to help you along. Go somewhere and do something, but don't do nothing and blame it on me, a white guy. That old record is worn out and nobody cares to listen to it anymore.

Originally posted by theBLESSINGofVISION
marg6043
Your reply made me smile.
I was pretty discouraged!

Is a pleasure, I am an outsider so I can pretty much see more than the regular person used to this type of struggles.

After a while I have become used to too.

You have the same opportunities I do, but with a few extra governmental bennies to help you along. Go somewhere and do something, but don't do nothing and blame it on me, a white guy. That old record is worn out and nobody cares to listen to it anymore.

No body is targeting you Thomas,the BLESSINGofVISION is just posting his opinions and views of what he has experienced, is has not targeted you as a white man.

You are targeting yourself, when you make the post a personal issue.



[edit on 14-9-2005 by marg6043]

By: ECK
Until we walk in another's shoes, literally, we cannot know how it feels to be in their skin. But we can strive to walk among those who are different from us - and to learn what it is to be where they walk.

Originally posted by theBLESSINGofVISION
Summed it ALL up with an understandable, recognizeable, concise truism. Thats wisdom folks! Literally a conclusion forged in pure WISDOM.
Duly noted!

BoV,
I hope you're feeling better about this... there are many people out there who are opposed to racism and classism and are trying to work beyond it. Hopefully, this disaster in the Gulf Region, and especially in New Orleans, will open up the minds of many more to the harsh realities of poverty and racism that still exist here in the USA.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
It isn't a "White Man's World", in the sense that white men have some secret ring-knocking leg up on anyone else.
...but don't do nothing and blame it on me, a white guy...

Those that DO have a secret ring knocking leg up on anyone else,
i.e. the Global Elite,
i.e. those that rule the world,
i.e. those that profit from ALL of mankinds individual endeavors in a fashion that they architected and perpetuate,
a "system" whereby you must shoulder the "blood, sweat, and tears" (truly!) for their benefit, or have punishment exacted in relentless fashion,

those guys who have this...
They are white men.

This is their world.

Not yours Mr Dredd.

You are not the cause of all my problems. (Just pety frustration)

What arrogance!

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
...but don't do nothing and blame it on me, a white guy...

Thats way outta line 4 you to go there.
Your scaring me, bro!

You react to a point you disagree with, with no regard for the points validity.
IMMEDIATELY you are personally offended.

You are saying irrational, hyper-aggresive things to me.

One more time - I never meant to make you feel personally attacked...
I really have no idea who you are!
That said...
I'm a "button pusher" when people want to debate me and demand to make discussions personal. Its my nature. But i dont want to go there so please no more.

[edit on 9/14/2005 by theBLESSINGofVISION]

[edit on 9/14/2005 by theBLESSINGofVISION]

We can discuss our different points of view without going after each other personally.

I'm white. I come from from a middle-upper class background. It took me getting away from that environment, seeing the poverty first-hand and struggling financially (at times) myself to really understand how stacked against the little guy the system is. Once you get into a cycle of poverty, its beyond difficult to get out of it. It becomes one thing after another.

When you come from my background, you do have an invisible leg-up - whether you see it or not. Could I have gotten out of New Orleans (even if I only had say $20 in my checking account)? YES. Why? B/c I have plenty of family out there who would have sent me money pronto - and given me a place to stay on the East Coast or West. My choice. Far too many of those stranded in NO did not have family members able to send them cash to leave, or to provide a place for them to stay in the interim.

Did I go to college out of high school? Yes. Why? B/c that was expected. How many folks in the ghetto or from the reservation can say that? Not too many. Most of them (those who wish to move up) go into the military so they might one day have the means to educate themselves.

When I left Arizona to start over, I had family connections. I had a nice place to move into and I walked right into a temporary job here in NC w/out even being interviewed - based on my brother's word. How many Katrina victims have those options? Not many, I'd be willing to bet. It's good to know people.

These are just a tiny few of the differences in background that are all too real, but often overlooked.

So, what you're saying (try and make it in a few less words without theatrics), is that it isn't a "White Man's World" (I don't even own the house in which I live, but I can show you the bank that does), but the Elite Man's world. Would that be more accurate?

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
...When you come from my background, you do have an invisible leg-up - whether you see it or not...

The worst part is that not enough people recognize that extra boost they have, but rather choose to take it for granted...

I often think about the things I have or the opportunities available to me that others have less-available access to simply based upon their socio-economic background...

But I've always found that the strongest and most successful "minorities" that I've known in my life make no light of their struggles....It's something they live with but choose to remain silent about, as though in defiance of even making it worthy of conversation....And when it does come up, a clear passion and selflessness often emerges that you would have never known was there....

These people more than make ends meet by choosing NOT to bring light to their disadvantages...

Of course, you have the repressors of this movement as well....Those who simply think that every white man is out to get them still....You don't even have to speak to these people to know who they are - You can see it in their stone-cold stare when they pass you in the streets.....Thugs who do nothing but make fools of themselves and those around them by attempting to dish out their own form of gang-mentality justice....


At any rate - There's a great movie that recently came out on DVD - Crash - Which really centers on race-relations and the human elements involved....It ties in well with this discussion, and I give it a big thumbs up for those interested in watching it...

Really? ECK? You must have come from a really nice neighborhood. Sounds like you couldn't relate to me, as your description of the people from the ghettos and the reservations would fit me. Sure, my folks were wanting to send me to college, but you know what? I wasn't blind, and I knew the crap cost money. I went Army, six days after high school. Guess what? There were plenty otehr white kids as well as black kids who served. Another thing, there haven't been an overwhelming number of blacks in my "higher learning" (You know, the universities, where people teach kids WHAT to think, IAW the NWO agenda), but when I went to a trade school for avionics, there was. And, guess what else? We all make the same money, eat in thed same break areas, play dominos together at break, get off at the same time and go home to the same neighborhoods.

You make it sound like having a silver spoon shoved in an orifice is a good thing, but I disagree. I'd rather be me than ANY of the Kennedys any day. My road is what beat character in me, and the teaching I received from real parents made sure the lessons in character life gave me stuck. Reciting the victim story isn't character, nor does it help others, so you won't catch me chanting that stuff with you. It begets nothing but weakness, and this rotting society doesn't need anymore weakness.

If what the gentleman is trying to say is there are extremely wealthy, powerful men, the Elite, who are using their power and money to enslave the rest of us, make us their servants make the world their playground, why not say it? How many of us Whiteys does he think knocks a ring?

TC,
Elite man's world better description perhaps.

However, Elite man has used racial subjugation and domination and continues to do so.
Of all the plights, Elite man (who were all white) instilled inferiority complex into blacks on sociological level, because they were black.

Why the black people?
Because they were black!

Not until recently did this idea of rich vs poor have any legitamacy.
Real recently.

So when blacks say White Man's World, this why. It has been the race issue for as long as this country has been.

This country was founded on black slaves, not poor slaves.

Those ELITE guys like "our" founding fathers, would have hurt me bad for saying what I've said. They would have relished in my punishment, and I would keep my mouth shut or die.

This tradition of SPECIAL attention to blacks has died, huh?

Only poor and rich, huh?
Thats naiive man.

Here is PROOF:
That guy in your Avionics class could never be President. He could never walk down the street with a super HOTT blonde chick without someone wanting to hurt him bad just based on the principle of it.

Yeah black people must stop blaming the white man for all their problems which they dont help, but white people cannot forget where these black peoples problems came from.

After that both sides could understand eachother right?
And everything would be ok.
I still think it could happen.

[edit on 9/14/2005 by theBLESSINGofVISION]