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NEWS: Louisiana Charges Nursing Home Owners with Manslaughter

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posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 05:01 PM
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The Louisiana Attorney General announced manslaughter charges against the owners of a St. Bernard Parish nursing home where 34 patients were left to die in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. The State says the owners were asked to move the patients and offered buses to do it, but the owners refused to cooperate.
 



today. reuters.com
BATON ROUGE (Reuters) - The owners of a nursing home where 34 people were found dead after Hurricane Katrina have been arrested and charged with 34 counts of negligent homicide for not evacuating their patients, the Louisiana attorney general's office said on Tuesday.

Mable Mangano and Salvador Mangano Sr. declined an offer from authorities of buses to evacuate the residents of their facility, the state said.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


This was a tragedy, but I wonder if the Governor of Louisiana who refused help from the Red Cross will also be charged?




posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 05:07 PM
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When you run a nursing home you accept responsibility for those in your care. If it is proven that they were offered buses and declined them and as a result these people died, negligent homicide is too mild of a charge. Now the question is who's being charged? The owners of the nursing home or the people employed there at the time of the hurricane. This could prove to be interesting.



posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 05:53 PM
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Good... I saw this on cnn last night when paula zahn was reporting.

Not only should the owner's of the 'home' who watch and care for the 'residents' who need all the help they can get, be charged with murder, but the employee's should to.

My mother is supervisor of these worker's at the red cross, and she says those people are of a different caliber, which is why so much abuse goes on in those nursing homes. It's like the lowest form of human's taking care of your grandparen'ts, bathing them, changing their clothes, ect.

My grandma was in a home like this when she got alzheimer's, we took pictures of her because she had a bunch of bruises on her one time, including on her cheek bone, and broke a hip.
My husbands mom was put in a home, where they turned the heat up all the way in her bedroom so they wouldn't have to take care of her as much.
Even one of the dietary aids said she didn't like the way they treated her.
On her death certificate it says she died of dehydration and natural causes.
Imagine that.

I say fry all of them, they probably had the mentality that to remove them 'wasn't there job' ....



posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 06:14 PM
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Many more people in positions of authority should be held responsible for things like this! Not just with this nursing home and not just with this hurricane, but going back many years and spanning many states. Every time something like this has resulted in a death, be it malfeasance, misfeasance or nonfeasance, it should be vigorously investigated. Rich business owners and politicians want all the fringe benefits of being in charge, but they are the first to run and hide when something bad happens. It's time to make some examples out of these idiots! SHAME on those people for leaving the helpless behind!!!!



posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 06:25 PM
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Don't their loved ones bear some responsibility for the deaths? If my grandma was in a home, and the waters were rising, I wouldn't just leave her safety up to the nursing home, I'd take care of my own.

This is what should have been done.

Of course there are lots of people who have nobody to look after them, and they pay people to do so. In that case, those people were wronged when their caretakers failed to make the necessary arrangements.

It's a sad situation all around. Those who can't take care of themselves are at the mercy of others. And sometimes the others don't have quite enough mercy to go around.

Very sad. The nursing home owners should be prosecuted, the employees should not. Why? Because they don't get paid to save the patients from floods, they get paid to wash them and feed them, etc. The nursing home management, along with owners, should bear the full brunt.

I agree regarding the general calibre of nursing home staff, that profession seems to draw some real sickos. Not to say they're all like that, but enough are that people took notice and the stereotype took root.

I would never, ever, under any circumstances put my mother in a home, unless she begged me. It's just not what family is about. You take care of your own, that's the way.



posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 06:36 PM
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If I'm not mistaken this is the nursing home that had 10 days reserve of water, food and fuel so decided to ride out the storm, which they survived. However, they did not take into account the levees breaking and the civil disorder. The looting completely devastated their stores within hours by which time the ensuing chaos made escape impossible.

At the time their reserves of essentials would have been deemed reasonable, but in hindsight of the breakdown of society and government it would now seem to be not so.

Truly this is a sorrowful state of affairs, and yes, while they are responsible no one, not the owners nor civic leaders could have forseen the unprecedent circumstances that was and for the most part remains the aftermath of Katrina.

Seems to me they will be scapegoated and thrown to the wolves, but I would imagine that they will be found guilty of lesser charges as they are representative of a wide-ranging system failure. To indict them for such a grevious charge would open up a whole new can of worms for the authorities.

This whole Katrina situation should serve as warning to all of us that ultimately we are responsible for our own welfare and securityand that of our loved ones.

Richard of Danbury



posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 07:40 PM
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I don't want to prejudge these people, because I don't know all of the facts.

But if, however, they are found guilty, then they need to be reprimanded to the fullest extent of the law.

As for the employees, their excuse will be that they were "following orders". That is, if there were any employees left.

I'm sure there will be civil lawsuits from the families as well.

What about the people at the hospital that overdosed and, ultimately, killed their patients? Are they going to be arrested?


This whole Katrina situation should serve as warning to all of us that ultimately we are responsible for our own welfare and securityand that of our loved ones.


Unfortunately this is sad, but true. As seen with Katrina, from the top levels of the government all the way down to the lowest man on the totem pole, no one will assist us in a crisis and we are ultimately responsible, like RoD said, for ourselves and our family.



posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I would never, ever, under any circumstances put my mother in a home, unless she begged me. It's just not what family is about. You take care of your own, that's the way.


Never say never. You may have the best intentions but you never know what life will thow your way. My dad has alzeihmers and so far we have been able to take care of him; but he is really in need of 24 hour professional care. My mom refuses to get him that becuase she's afraid of him being abused or neglected. While that is a valid fear, at the same time it has now gotten to the point where I honestly do not think that him being taken care of by us is the best for him.

I don't want to see him hurt in anyway; but I would like to actually be able to live my life in a semblance of normalcy (I'm only 24 and quit frankly not equiped to take care of an alzeihmer's parent). I am unable to go out whenever I want, I have to help bath him, put him on the toilet, feed him, and any other nessecity that he reqiures. He can't really walk anymore either, and he almost never speaks. He is even starting to have difficulty eating/swallowing. It is like having a baby that will never grow up, and this is my Father! Sorry for the rant but this is my sore point....

Anyway I would really like to see more about this case in the article. It was very short and not a lot of details were given. If they were indeed negligent then they should be prosecuted. The article didn't give much in the way of details.



posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 09:12 PM
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Well since this story has shifted to the idea that nursing home workers are low caliber people and being that I used to work in a nursing home let me tell you all a few things on behalf of some of these so called low caliber people. They are hugely underpaid, most make minimum wage and have training to even qualify for the job. There are usually no insurance or benefits for the workers, they are expected to come into work on their days off if someone calls in sick. Many of them are so overworked it ain't funny. Let me tell You what a typical days for me was like,

7am-8:30 am, Get 14 residents up, of those (14) 13 were total care, that meant they had to be washed, I always washed their faces, hands and bottoms, I then diapered them, then dressed them and put them in their wheel chairs, literally I mean pick them up physically, comb and fix their hair, this was not a slap together operation these people were old they did not feel like being jerked up, so I tried to move quickly but gently with them.

Then take them to the dining room, for the ones the drs. have ordered restraining, tie them in their chairs to keep the ones that might slide out from falling or the ones that have no idea what is going on from wandering off or the one who might get up and try to walk even though they are physically are incapable and will fall and hurt themselves.

Then make their soiled and wet beds with clean linens with mitered corners. All of this in 1.5 hrs and then help any other aid who needed it. I had two double amputees and three patients over 250 lbs. to lift in my section. Most of the time I ended up doing it by myself.

Then hand them their plates thats over 100 people to take care of with a staff of 5 aides and one nurse. Now feed the blind ones the ones who have strokes or are paralyzed and can't feed themselves, keep track of all the ones who have altzheimers and might wonder away. Make sure everyone eats and drinks. wash their hands and faces again. Clean dining room.

Take everyone to the shower room and change their soiled diapers and wet clothes if need be. Shower at least two residents on my section according to schedule, strip their beds down and wash every inch of the bed from the floors up.

Now its lunch, feed everyone, wash hands and faces again, take the ones that gets a nap after lunch and put them back to bed, turn the patient if they can't every two hours. Take the rest to the bathroom. Clean dining room. Clean shower rooms and then dust and clean patients rooms including mopping.

In between all this deal with patients fighting, wandering off, trying to get up, screaming for a drink even though you just gave them one, answering call bells and then have irate family members come in demanding to know why granny or papa has a drop of blood on his pillow even though any idiot could see they have scratched a pimple on their forehead and the pillow case has just been put on as it is snow white and still has wrinkles from being folded in the laundry.

Now add to this mix families who never visit, never even call to check on the family member. I once took care of a wonderful lady for three years she had one son who would get drunk about every couple of months and call her. No one came to see her. When she died they could not find a family member to sign for the funeral home to pick her up, finally a niece came and said she only had 500.00 to bury her aunt with and that no one else in the family would sign, these low caliber nurses aids all who made less than 4.00/hr. sent to the store and took their own money to buy the nursing home resident a new dress to be buried in. Now also imagine my surprise to find out this lady had 4 children all living in the immediate area who could have easily visited their mother and given her joy and made her feel loved.

In all my years of working I only came across one lady who we thought was mean and she was turned in and fired. I will tell you straight out I would go home sometimes and worry about not getting more done for them but it was near impossible to do more with the staff as small as it was. That where most of the problems arise from IMO the states not making it mandatory for it to be so many aides per resident and enforcing it.



posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 11:18 PM
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This is good. Next we need to charge the local, state and federal government employees who were responsible for not allocating the proper funds to and building a proper drainage and levee system in the city of New Orleans. Which as a result has amassed a death toll in the hundreds.



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 02:30 AM
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Kinda too little too late.



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 02:37 AM
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Good post by Goose. Most homes are well run and the residents are well taken care of. Its the few bad ones that tain everybodies opinion.

That being said, the owners bear responsability to an extent as does the staff that left.

Its a tough spot to be in for sure. Its a fact that my wife and I have to figure out when the times comes. We live in Earthquake country. What if both of us are on when the big one hits? How many people would stay at the hospital and not try to track down thier child? Not sure what exactly transpired, but we need more information before we become judge, jury and executioner for thos involved here.



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 04:04 AM
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I just have to wonder if it is true at all that the state offered school buses to these people..... Why is it then that they did not use those same school buses to evacuate those people that didn't have transportation or couldn't evacuate by themselves due to physical restrains or because they were poor and had no means to leave the city?.....


[edit on 14-9-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 04:40 AM
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Muaddib when reading the original post i thought the same thing,i can not imagine those in charge just refuse without a legit reason,were these buses able to accommodate certain patients which though does`nt account for those physically able to ride in a bus for a lengthy time.

I wonder whether if moved they were also worrying about litigation if the buses could`nt properly accommodate.

Guess we`ll have to wait to hear more



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 05:46 AM
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As reported by NPR here in the US just after the storm passed, most of the elderly patients were critical care patients, i.e. on various life support systems. This is why they kept what was supposed to be adaequate stores for ten days. This is also why they refused the buses as they would not be able to accommodate all the necessary equipment.

If these patients had been evacuated the odds of survival would have been against them. Again in hindsight we now know that they were not prepared for the civil disorder.



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 10:53 AM
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In response to TrueLies' stereotyping of all geriatric health care workers, it is extremely irresponsible to label them all as negligent. Many members of my extended family are hard at work every day caring for and protecting our elderly citizens.

I don't believe the "spin" about the patients being "intensive" care. How did the local official's mother manage to call her son every day until she died if she was "intensive" care? In the case of a fire, they couldn't have moved those patients to safety? I just don't believe it.

I agree that their loved ones share a responsibility in this. If my elderly relatives were placed in a care facility, it would be my responsiblity to ensure that they are cared for in any circumstance, not just an emergency. But even more so in an emergency, I would make sure that they received the attention they deserved. Maybe some did. I think maybe most didn't.

Unfortunately, my sentiments are the minority. It is common knowledge that our nuirsing homes are noting more than dumping grounds for the nation's unwanted (and growing) elderly population. To add insult to injury, families make it a game of hiding Grandma's or Grandpa's money, so that the taxpayer has to foot the bill. And everyone stands around pointing fingers when the over-burdened government fails to offer anything less than royal treatment.

Should they be abused? Absolutely not. Do they deserve the best of care? Absolutely. Do they deserve to die because of the negligence of owners/employees? Absolutely not. But I think there is plenty of blame to go around for everyone, including the "kids" who left them there.



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 12:38 PM
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When you run a nursing home you accept responsibility for those in your care.


That's really the heart of the matter. It was their responsibility, buses provided or not, to get the people out when a mandatory evacuation was ordered. They are completely liable here, whether buses were provided or not. Such a facility should never be left to these people to run EVER again.

As for the comment about loved ones...there are many who simply don't have any, so don't forget that one. Though, I can't imagine the guilt those family members are having now... Good though. They deserve every agony for their negligence. If I had ANY relative, no matter how remote, that I knew of in such a circumstance, I'd do everything in my power to see they were moved to safety. I can't even imagine doing differently, but maybe that's just me....



It is common knowledge that our nuirsing homes are noting more than dumping grounds for the nation's unwanted (and growing) elderly population.


That's a fairly blanket statement. There are many such places that are actually quite nice. They organize activities, provide round the clock health care, and allow the elderly to socialize and interact with others of a like generation and mindset. I wouldn't paint them with such a broad brush. And this is coming from someone living in what many call "God's Waiting Room"....


Though, the description you gave does apply to many, sadly....

EDIT: BTW, there are ways to move people in intensive care... We generally refer to them as "Ambulances", perhaps the home directors should inquire about these wondrous vehicles?

[edit on 14-9-2005 by Gazrok]



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 12:47 PM
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The administrators at this hospital should also be charge too then.

sfgate.com.../c/a/2005/09/13/MNG3HEMQHM1.DTL
New Orleans -- The bodies of 45 people have been found in a flooded uptown hospital here, officials said Monday, sharply increasing the death toll from Hurricane Katrina and raising new questions about the breakdown of the evacuation system as the disaster unfolded

They were also in charge of these poor people. Same law, same charge.



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 01:05 PM
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Goose, BostonBill

Obviously it's a profession where people can gain a substantial amount of power over sometimes helpless individuals. The same problems happen with nursing home staff as with police, guards, hospital orderlies, teachers, yadda, yadda, yadda.

I wasn't saying all nursing home employees are criminals, or sickos. What I said was the profession attracts some real sickos, which is true, and I stand by the statement. I could flood this thread with links to stories about nursing home abuse. Horrifying tales that might put you off your supper. I'm not going to, because it has little to do with the topic.

I don't think the employees should be charged anyhow, so this is hardly a crusade against nursing home employees. Their job description, their legal obligation to the patients, I don't think there's any standard in place by which to judge these employees. The place started filling up with water, and employees saved themselves. They probably could have done more, but I'm not sure they're legally obligated to.

The owners, certainly, are legally obligated to care for the patients in situations like this, and probably the managers are as well. They were in a position to bring in transportation, or shuttle people to higher ground. They didn't. I don't think the employees can be legally compelled to be heroes.



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 01:08 PM
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``

on the news today, Wed. 14th around the 6AM period,
there was a man familiar with the incident...and the facts will come
out in the court proceedings..
it seems that the staff at the facility actually saved ~52 others
from drowning...as the wall of water came sometime after the
storm had passed & the skies were clear & the staff was busy
cleaning up around the premesis
but then, suddenly, the floodwaters reached to 10foot deep
in about 15 minutes...it was equated to a Tsunami/ Flood

and affected many, many peoples who had remained in the
towns and such in the community & Parish (county)
despite the evacuation (suggestions) pleas? orders?

btw, someone has to be the caregivers & morticians & crimescene
cleaner-uppers in society....it seems like these nursinghome providers
are being painted with 'guilty' paint before all the facts are presented.

chilling




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