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War with Iraq... why not with Cuba...

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posted on Sep, 20 2002 @ 08:52 PM
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Cuba is probably the most underrated terrorist country in the world... why not attack Cuba?

Wouldnt it make more sense? Cuba is 90 miles away from American soil. The possibilities of Cuba launching a SUCCESFUL attack on US is more realistic than Iraq launching one 7-10 thousand miles away or whatever to US.

It's possible that Fidel still has nukes from the cuban missile crisis and he has them hiding away in some bunker, hmmm.

what's the answer? Iraq has oil, Cuba doesn't

and dont tell me this BS that bush has been saying, talking about Sadam has shown act to do it. man that's all LIES!!!!!!!

Sadam is all talk, Fidel isnt. And it's true when people say the quiet ones are the most dangerous. Fidel is the quiet one.

Fidel is more smarter than Sadam. we're talking about a man who can fake his death and make the whole world believe it and BOOM, USA falls like the Roman Empire it is
[Edited on 9-21-2002 by Illmatic67]

[Edited on 9-21-2002 by Illmatic67]




posted on Sep, 20 2002 @ 09:21 PM
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I wish worrying about Saddam launching an attack on us from that far away was the only thing to worry about. We have friends and allies that he can reach not to mention our military bases in the area and our naval fleet that's alway near by. Some would argue that he has terrorist connection and could very easily give them WMD's to use on someone. For the most part Cuba has been good. Iraq, of course, has gassed his own people. (seach google for the pics of dead kurds if you wish). Sure they may have nukes but I bet we would here more about it if they did, especially by the current administration. The oil angle seems old and to me, I just can't always buy that. And I guess, in the sort of draconian grand scheme of things oil is vital to our national security and perhaps it's better that the US gets the oil than the chicomms. At any rate, we do get alot of oil outside the ME. Mexico and Canada ranks 2nd and 3rd as far as where we get, and some other central/southern American countries are up there as well. It would be nice if the oil Iraq was able to sell would go to the people. Opec probably wants to keep Saddam in power as much as we want him out.

Keep your enemies close and Cuba is sure close! Plus we do have a mil base on Cuba. Those factors probably have something to do with how we view Cuba.



posted on Sep, 21 2002 @ 04:49 AM
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One good arguement against oil being the motivator of this conflict is this.If Iraq was invaded short term the oil price would go up above $30 a barrel this would advantage all who had oil or who had investments in oil but long term with the country with the second largest oil reserves back on line fully oil prices would reach their lowest levels for a long time.
At the moment Russia and China can look forward to developing these these resoures.It will all depend on if any new administration in Iraq are so grateful to the US that they change the plan.
I've spent a lot of this week trawling through oil reports looking for an intention on US oil companies to exploit the present situation.I might be looking in the wrong places but I can find nothing.
There, though,is lot of speculation on very respected sites.As one oil speculator said it felt that it will not be too long after the marines land that the Exxon boys will be behind but this is only speculation.
There were rumours also of a pipeline running through Afghanistan.This is false.The $3billion pipeline is running through Turkey and one of the former Soviet states on Afghanistans northern border(one of the other Stans)
Sorry this is all sketchy my wife deleted the history file and I can't be bothered to look again.



posted on Oct, 21 2002 @ 10:50 PM
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Ok, the USSR is gone, which was Castro's deal. He doesn't threaten us and we really aren't on that bad of terms with him.

Saddam is a madman who can and will use any weapon he can get his grimey little hands on.

And don't even start with the oil conspiracy. It is bull#.



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 05:17 AM
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You sad little pathetic controllable #s, here you are believing that Saddam is actually a treat. This whole media circus has been trying to fill your heads with the ideas that Saddam is an superpower capable of attacking anyone he sees fit. What you really do not understand is that Saddam has nothing, his army consists of little 14 year old kids and army veterans, his tanks are 20 years old and he has almost no fighterplanes.

If this is your big treat and you believe this then just let the sand pour in your eyes.

With 400 nukes pointed at him from the US and 250 nukes from Israel I wonder where this treat lies??

Weapons of mass destruction you say, well as of today this still hasn't been proved.

So blinded by all this media spouting propaganda, you really can't think for yourselves, you really do not bother looking at what the real journalists have to say, you'd rather believe a news channel that gets their money straight from the government, I think you know how objective this news must be!!!



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 08:59 AM
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Cubas an interesting case (economically a basket case too, since the Russians stopped trading oil for sugar and brought their personnel back).
America could have had and considered having- Cuba after the Spanish-American war, but settled for Puerto Rico. Cuba was a happy (for everyone except the average Cubano) little puppet state then until Castro came. Nothing much has been done by way of interference since then. Theres the occasional argument about Cuban emigrants, Cuban children, aeroplane flights, trade but thats about it. And theres the annual farce of the US offering the rent for Guantanamo which is always promptly refused. But thats about it.
Perhaps ghosts of Bay of Pigs still drift around the Pentagon. One remembers a rather embarrassing flurry about Castro developing germ warfare a few months back as much a weapon of mass destruction as Jong Kim Ils rumored warheads. That, however, despite having the Nobel-Prize winning ex-President shooting his mouth off, came to nothing.
Monroe doctrine or not, America has been pretty reluctant to interfere openly in Latin America. Grenada was a bit of a farce and the brief Panama campaign achieved little. Its a long time since a Central American government would be overthrown just to keep the price of bananas at an acceptable level. There has been endless covert interference: from Allende to the recent business with Chavez and the long and grisly history of drugs and rebels: Nicaragua and Colombia.
I suspect that so close to home America does not care to be openly aggressive preferring other means to pursue her objectives. I imagine they know that Castro is ageing, that his probable successor, his brother, is less-than-competent, that the economy has more or less disintegrated and America will sit and wait. Although he can come across as a bit of a fanatic, Castro is no fool and he is by all accounts very popular still.
The Latin Americans have strange heroes: where else could the asthmatic Argentine, Che Guevara arguably the worlds least successful revolutionary, guilty of ordering dozens of executions without trial of Batistas supporter in Cuba, have become an icon- a poster on a million students walls?
I dont think removing Castro would be a vote-winner south of the border.
Its very hard to see what America would gain from overt military action against Cuba- other than millions of penniless migrants. Theres no threat that even the worst of the US media could make credible. Apart from sugar, tobacco and rum, theres nothing there. Its very handy to have one of the last Communist states so close as a convenient scapegoat. And the regime will probably collapse soon anyway.



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 09:01 AM
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Please, do NOT attack Irak.
Please, do NOT remove Saddam.

Irak is a democracy who has a brightfull humanist leader.


IRAQ

Republic of Iraq
Head of state and government: Saddam Hussain
Capital: Baghdad
Population: 23.6 million
Official language: Arabic
Death penalty: retentionist

Scores of people, including possible prisoners of conscience and armed forces officers suspected of planning to overthrow the government, were executed. Scores of suspected anti-government opponents, including people suspected of having contacts with opposition groups in exile, were arrested. The fate and whereabouts of most of those arrested, including those detained in previous years, remained unknown. Several people were given lengthy prison terms after grossly unfair trials before special courts. Torture and ill-treatment of political prisoners and detainees were systematic. The two Kurdish political parties controlling Iraqi Kurdistan detained prisoners of conscience, and armed political groups were reportedly responsible for abductions and killings.

Background

Iraq remained under stringent economic sanctions imposed by UN Security Council resolutions since 1990 which reportedly resulted in severe hardship for the civilian population and a humanitarian crisis. In May the US government submitted a British-drafted resolution for a new sanctions regime, ''smart sanctions'', to the other permanent members of the UN Security Council. The proposal included lifting restrictions on imports of civilian goods while keeping in place controls on military imports and Iraqi oil revenues. The USA and United Kingdom (UK) wanted the resolution to be adopted by the Security Council before June, when the six-month phase of the ''oil-for-food'' program ended. However, the Russian Federation opposed the proposal and asked for more time to study the details. The vote was postponed indefinitely and the ''oil-for-food'' program was extended twice, in July and November.

In April the UN Commission on Human Rights adopted a resolution strongly condemning ''the systematic, widespread and extremely grave violations of human rights and of international humanitarian law by the Government of Iraq, resulting in an all-pervasive repression and oppression sustained by broad-based discrimination and widespread terror.'' The Commission extended for a further year the mandate of the UN Special Rapporteur on Iraq.

Civilian deaths resulting from air strikes by US and UK forces against Iraqi targets inside the ''air exclusion zones'' were reported during the year. In February, for the first time in more than two years, US and UK forces bombed targets in Baghdad, outside the air exclusion zones. According to the Iraqi government, a man and a woman died as a result of these attacks and more than 20 people were injured. US officials said that the attacks were in retaliation for increased Iraqi anti-aircraft activities in the air exclusion zones and that the targets included Iraqi radar and command posts. The Iraqi government said that, on 19 June, 23 people were killed and 11 wounded after US and UK warplanes attacked a football pitch in Tel Afr, west of Mosul in northern Iraq. US officials denied this claim and stated that no missiles were dropped by US and UK forces on that day in that area. In January AI requested a visit to Iraq to investigate reports of civilian killings following US and UK air strikes. In March the government turned down the request without giving any specific reason.

Death penalty

The death penalty continued to be applied extensively. In November the Revolutionary Command Council, the highest executive body in the country, issued a decree to provide the death penalty for the offences of prostitution, homosexuality, incest and rape. The decree also stated that those convicted of providing accommodation for the purposes of prostitution would be executed by the sword. Women and men were reportedly beheaded in the last two years for alleged prostitution and procuring prostitutes, usually without formal trial and sometimes for political reasons.

Scores of people, including possible prisoners of conscience, were executed. The victims included army officers suspected of plotting to overthrow the government or of having contacts with opposition groups abroad, and suspected political opponents, particularly Shi'a Muslims suspected of anti-government activities.


In March, three air force officers, Sa'eed 'Abd al-Majid 'Abd al-Ilah, Fawzi Hamed al-'Ubaidi and Fares Ahmad al-'Alwan, were executed by firing squad.
Also in March, army officer Major-General Tariq Sa'dun was executed, reportedly for criticizing the government.
In May, two Muslim clerics, 'Abd al-Sattar 'Abd al-Ibrahim al-Musawi and Ahmad al-Hashemi, were executed in Baghdad, reportedly for publicly accusing the government of being behind the murder of Ayatollah Mohammad Sadeq al-Sadr in 1999. The two were said to have been arrested at the end of 2000.
In July, two lawyers, Mohammad 'Abd al-Razzaq al-Hadithi and Karim al-Shammari, were reportedly sentenced to death by a special court for alleged anti-government activities. The two were among a group of lawyers interrogated in June about the distribution of leaflets critical of the lack of independence of the judiciary. It was not known whether the sentences were carried out.
In October, 23 political prisoners, mainly Shi'a Muslims, were reportedly executed in Abu Ghraib prison. Three of them, 'Abd al-Hamid Naji Taleb, Riyadh Fathi Jassem and Fares Talal Hatem, were said to have been accused of murdering a security officer in Saddam City in Baghdad in June.

Arrests and incommunicado detention

During the year scores of people were arrested for their suspected anti-government activities or simply because of their family relationship to people sought by the authorities. Many were held in incommunicado detention without charge or trial.

In March Hussam Mohammad Jawad, a 67-year-old retired medical doctor, and his brother-in-law Iyyad Shams al-Din, aged 63, were arrested by the authorities, reportedly to put pressure on Su'ad Shams al-Din, a medical doctor and the wife of Hussam Mohammad Jawad, to return to the country. Arrested in June 1999 and tortured, she had subsequently fled abroad. The two men were reportedly released in May.
In August, 22 people were arrested in Ramadi and Kut, allegedly for suspected anti-government activities. At the end of the year their fate and whereabouts remained unknown.

Long prison sentences after unfair trials

Trials before special courts, always conducted in camera, continued to fall far short of internationally recognized standards for fair trial. Military officers or civil servants lacking adequate training and independence were the judges. Access to government-appointed lawyers remained severely restricted and occasionally confined to the day of the trial.

In April, four people - 'Issam Mahmoud, a retired army officer, Basil Sa'di al-Hadithi, a university lecturer, Khairi Mohammad Hassan and 'Imad Mohammad Hassan - were sentenced to life imprisonment by a special court in Mosul, reportedly on charges of attempting to form a political grouping. No information was available regarding their place of imprisonment.
Also in April an Iraqi nuclear scientist, Hussain Isma'il al-Bahadli, was sentenced to 31 years' imprisonment by a special court. The charges were not made public.

Torture and ill-treatment

Political prisoners and detainees were subjected to systematic torture. The bodies of many of those executed had evident signs of torture. Common methods of physical torture included electric shocks or cigarette burns to various parts of the body, pulling out of fingernails, rape, long periods of suspension by the limbs from either a rotating fan in the ceiling or from a horizontal pole, beating with cables, hosepipe or metal rods, and falaqa (beating on the soles of the feet). In addition, detainees were threatened with rape and subjected to mock execution. They were placed in cells where they could hear the screams of others being tortured and were deliberately deprived of sleep.

In March 'Abd al-Wahad al-Rifa'i, a 58-year-old retired teacher, was executed by hanging after he had been held in prison without charge or trial for more than two years. He was suspected of having links with the opposition through his brother who lived abroad. His family in Baghdad collected his body from the Baghdad Security Headquarters. The body reportedly bore clear marks of torture, with the toenails pulled out and the right eye swollen.
In July, two men, Zaher al-Zuhairi and Fares Kadhem 'Akla, reportedly had their tongues cut out for slandering the President, by members of Feda'iyye Saddam, a militia created in 1994 by 'Uday Saddam Hussein, the President's eldest son. The amputations took place in a public square in Diwaniya City, south of Baghdad.

Iraqi Kurdistan

In the two provinces in northern Iraq controlled by Kurdish political parties, a new government was formed in January in the area controlled by the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK). The former Prime Minister, Kosrat Rassul, resigned for health reasons and was replaced by Barham Ahmad Salih. Local council elections were held in May in the area controlled by the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP). The KDP reportedly won all seats.

A number of bombs exploded at offices of the UN and international non-governmental organizations in Kurdistan, resulting in considerable material damage. Kurdish officials blamed the Iraqi security services for these bomb attacks.

In September many members of the Islamic Unity Movement in Kurdistan, whose stronghold is the Halabja area, broke away to set up a new Islamist group called Jund al-Islam (Soldiers of Islam). The new group immediately declared a ''holy war'' against non-Islamist parties and heavy fighting broke out between its members and PUK forces sent to the Halabja area. Dozens were killed on both sides. Armed forces of Jund al-Islam reportedly beheaded and mutilated a number of PUK prisoners in Kheli Hama village. Further fighting gave PUK forces control of Halabja and drove Jund al-Islam fighters into the mountains near the Iran-Iraq border.

The PUK issued a general amnesty in October for members of Jund al-Islam, urging them to return under the authority of the regional government. The amnesty did not include those responsible for the assassination of Faranso Hariri (see below) and the massacre at Kheli Hama village.

Political arrests

In April Youkhana Yalda Khaie, a 32-year-old Assyrian Christian landowner from the Duhok area, was arrested by the KDP. He was held in solitary confinement, blindfolded, and allegedly subjected to torture before he was released in September. He was accused of having links with the Turkish opposition group, the Kurdish Workers' Party (PKK). However, his family said that the real reason for his arrest was to expropriate his land and prevent him from raising funds to build a church.
In June, five members of the Iraqi Workers' Communist Party (IWCP) - Karwan Najm al-Din, Kamran Hussain, Falah Ahmad, Ribwar Jalil and Alan Najm al-Din - were arrested by the authorities in PUK-controlled Sulaymania. They were alleged to have opened a newspaper office without authorization. The five were released at the end of July without charge.
Hashim Zebari, a journalist writing for the independent Kurdish newspaper Hawlati, and two other people were arrested in July in Dohuk, in the KDP-controlled area. They were held for a few weeks and then released. The reason for the arrests was not known.

Assassination and abduction by armed groups

In February Faranso Hariri, the Governor of Arbil and member of the KDP's Central Committee, was shot dead by unidentified gunmen while driving his car in Arbil. Scores of people were arrested and interrogated in connection with the assassination. The KDP later blamed armed Islamists belonging to the Islamic Unity Movement of Kurdistan who, it alleged, later joined Jund al-Islam.
Dr Ribwar 'Omar Nouri, the director of a hospital in Halabja, was abducted on 22 September by armed men belonging to Jund al-Islam to put pressure on the PUK to release an arrested Jund al-Islam member. Dr Nouri was freed 20 days later, after the PUK had released the Jund al-Islam member.
Bistun Muhye al-Din Hama Sharif was abducted on 5 September by Jund al-Islam. He was held for three days and reportedly tortured before he was released. The reason for his abduction was said to be his membership of a left-wing political group.

AI country reports/visits

Report

Iraq: Systematic torture of political prisoners (AI Index: MDE 14/008/2001)



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 09:06 AM
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a very different kettle of fish. Our fellow-poster is perhaps confusing the current Tyrant with his much madder father - and similar statements were made by Mao and Bhutto -it's Asian rhetoric.
But the North Koreans are tough (they didn't disgrace themselves in the Korean war), have nothing to lose, have no internal dissidents or ethnic minorities - there is no obvious alternative regime except union with the South and that woudl see China and probably Japan on the economic if not the military warpath, have impenetrable security, are well-armed, have neighbours (Russian and China) who would be rather upset, and there is the proximity to Japan whose already shaky economy would probably crumble if there were serious rumblings just across the water- and that would have a disastrous effect on stocks world-wide: especially in the USA.
There's too much at risk for military intervention to be considered - North Korea is best left alone to wither slowly - and there's absolutely nothin to gain.



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 09:08 AM
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I think the oil might be a red herring here, by the way. I dont doubt that it was a motive behind Afghanistan when Unocal first went before Congress 4 years ago that was made pretty clear. But its also worth making it clear that what the pipeline was really about was not getting oil to the West but about the opportunities to sell more oil in the East: even after the crash that is where the car market is expanding. The West has little potential for further development just about everyone who wants a car has one and environmentalism and sheer economics mean that the cars become less and less gas-guzzling, in general.
Im reluctant to go into depth while the board is still a little fragile and everything might be wiped off; but Id urge readers to recall that - whatever the price of oil is - until such time as the euro overtakes the dollar, if it does, it is in US dollars, and this is very beneficial to the US economy.
Secondly, what the producers make at the well-head the netback, as its called is relatively trifling compared with what the refiners and shippers and government taxation/duty departments make. Whatever the customer finally pays, one can be sure that most ends up in the coffers of western companies and governments. This might still give global economic giants a big incentive to control oilfields but governments will do okay, whatever. But, the chance to exploit the Asian markets will be worth zillions and given Iraqs oil reserves it would be very tempting to have a friendly regime with which to negotiate. The Americans and British did just that in Persia when they overthrew mossadegh and reinstated the Shah in the 50s.



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 09:09 AM
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While we are at it, why not Russia, China, etc. Heck let's do away with religions as well, heck let's do away with the mailman, he's kind of a terrorist always bringing the bills to my home.

To attack Iraq, I am not exactly in favor of this because I do not feel, threatened.
To attack Cuba? Why bother. They maybe Socialist Totalitarian (sp?) but they do get free health care, free education, heck their literacy rate is way, i mean way above the US's. If you ask me it would be just a waste of time. Saddam killed thousands, well hasn't some US President done the same? Try the removal of a Guatemalan President by the CIA with the President's own approval just for the sake of some capitalistic pig United Fruit Company, how many were killed there? The US has done plenty and still does to pose as a threat to other countries, but that of course isn't what the majority want. The govt. are the ones who decide that, and unfortunatley by people we "elect" to office.
If you ask me there are other more important issues at hand.



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 09:25 AM
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Hey Setipsychic, why did you take this pseudo "blahblahblah" ?



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 09:35 AM
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No seriously this my first time here and this is the name I chose. Sorry to diappoint you.



posted on Oct, 22 2002 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by blahblahblah
No seriously this my first time here and this is the name I chose. Sorry to diappoint you.


Look, you have posted this : " They maybe Socialist Totalitarian (sp?) ".

On ATS, there is only one user who's writing this " (sp?) " on his post. And this user is Setipsychic.


tssss tssss tssss.....



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