Official Cover-up: Toxic Waters Will Make New Orleans Unsafe for a Decade, page 1
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reply posted on 13-9-2005 @ 04:02 PM by HowardRoark
I’ve been seeing a lot thrown about on how “toxic” the water is, but I haven’t seen much in the way of hard data to back this up.

www.epa.gov...

Further more, the water will be mostly gone from the city in a couple of months so to claim that it will remain toxic for ten years doesn’t seem to make much sense.

There are a lot of different things that can be called toxic. All of them have different degradation and dispersion pathways. For example:



  • Stachybotrys and other molds. These aren’t really a water issue, (actually they are an airborne irritant. but they will appear and grow in the areas that were inundated and later dried out. This will be one of the biggest issues related to the salvage of existing housing stock.

  • e-colli, it is no surprise that the e-coli is high, since the flood basically back flushed the entire sewage system into the streets. Will this take ten years to go away? I doubt it/

  • Other pathogens, The same thing does for other biological pathogens. Once the city dries out, how long will those remain viable?

  • Organic chemicals (i.e. oil, gasoline, diesel fuel, etc) obviously those chemicals that get released into the environment will be there for as long as it takes that particular compound to either volatilize away or degrade naturally though normal processes. Certainly there will be some areas that will be affected more than others, but unless there is a major oil spill, which I have not seen evidence of, I don’t put this in the high hazard category.

  • Heavy metals (mainly lead) This is going to be one of the biggest headaches. The problem is that all of the lead based paint and lead contaminated soil have now been mixed up with the floor waters. Lead does tend to settle out fairly quickly so that the lead levels in the city after the flood dries out will probably not be that much higher than before, (typical for any large metropolitan area) but I would be concerned about the impact of the lead that is being flushed out on the shrimp fishery.




reply posted on 13-9-2005 @ 04:08 PM by soficrow
Originally posted by HowardRoark
I’ve been seeing a lot thrown about on how “toxic” the water is, but I haven’t seen much in the way of hard data to back this up.

www.epa.gov...




Then why are people being removed forcibly from their homes, and detained in armed camps?

The official justification for the forced "evacuations" is that NO is not safe.


reply posted on 13-9-2005 @ 09:09 PM by HowardRoark
Originally posted by SpilledBeans
I think the city will remain toxic for a long time, possibly 5-10 years even after "ALL" the water is removed from the city. The thing is, the toxins and bacteria can soak into the wood from houses, all houses will have to be bulldozed, the bacteria WILL be in the soil, there is no doubt of that. That means no making clay for bricks from the soil there because then you will have possibly toxic bricks, and yes it is possible. Think about, the city was flooded with sewage, blood, oil, gas, chemicals, and who knows what else.. maybe a lil bit of water in there too Point is, the city is toxic now and it WILL be there like for years, even after the water is gone. Yes, the media and gov know this, and yes they are dumbing down the reports on it now, making it seem like its safe to go there and work~!


Clay for bricks?

this is New Oreands, not Egypt

I don't think that there are too many clay pits in the middle of New Orleans.

Yes, most of the houses will have to be demolished. Like I said, the water will destroy the building materials.

As for the soil, the sewage and crap will biodegrade fairly quickly. How long does it take that pile of dog poop in your front yard to disappear? The e-coli will disappear once things dry out a bit.

As for the oils and gasoline, I haven't seen much evidence of extensive problems. Those chemicals do degrade naturally in the environment, especially in the presence of air and sunlight.

The heavy metals like lead were already there in the soil to begin with.





[edit on 13-9-2005 by HowardRoark]


reply posted on 14-9-2005 @ 04:22 AM by darkelf
Originally posted by HowardRoark
I’ve been seeing a lot thrown about on how “toxic” the water is, but I haven’t seen much in the way of hard data to back this up.

Further more, the water will be mostly gone from the city in a couple of months so to claim that it will remain toxic for ten years doesn’t seem to make much sense.



From
USA Today

Even when it dries, the polluted stew will coat streets, parks and yards with a film of toxic chemicals and sewage. Cleansing the land of contamination could take months, maybe years.

"Are the schoolyards and people's yards going to be so contaminated that we're going to have to scrape them up? That's the big unknown right now," Pardue says. "It's not a very rosy picture, I'm afraid."


You are talking about drying out a city that is almost never dry anyway. Annual rainfall in NOLA is over 60 inches. Add the fact that most of it is below sea level and must be pumped daily to prevent it from becoming a lake. Also things don't dry very well in that high humidity. All they are doing right now is pumping the standing water out.


reply posted on 14-9-2005 @ 01:15 PM by HowardRoark
Just to be clear, we seem to be talking about two separate issues here.

One is the effect of the flood waters on the city, and the other is the overall environmental issue with the gulf as a whole.

Since the title of this thread specifically mentions the city, I have limited my comments to that subject. Thus while I am aware that there have been reports of a couple of large oil spills along the gulf coast as a result of the hurricane, these are not in the city itself.

To me, there are two main problems with the issues addressed in this thread.

One is that it assumes that there is some sort of cover up, yet I can find no evidence to back up this assertion. Water tests have been taken and the results are being released. Keep in mind that a number of these tests can take a couple of days to complete, so that you don’t always get your results right away.

Secondly, is the use (not just in this thread, but in the media in general also) of the catch all term “toxic.” Without information on specific contaminant levels, the shotgun approach to labeling everything as “toxic” is nothing more than scare mongering, or sensationalizing.

The EPA has released some of the data from samples collected September 4 and 6th.

www.epa.gov...

I glanced through the data and frankly I didn’t see anything that was all that bad.

Keep one thing in mind, they are comparing the water results with drinking water standards. Suffice to say, no one is going to be drinking that water.

Furthermore I would be very interested to know what the background levels were like in the river and lake prior to the hurricane.

Originally posted by darkelf

You are talking about drying out a city that is almost never dry anyway. Annual rainfall in NOLA is over 60 inches. Add the fact that most of it is below sea level and must be pumped daily to prevent it from becoming a lake. Also things don't dry very well in that high humidity. All they are doing right now is pumping the standing water out.


So in other words, the rain washes down the city on a regular basis.

Yes there is sewage issues in the water. Yes they will have to clean it up, but they have to do that in every major city that floods anyway. They had to do that in the Mississippi river cities that flooded a decade back. Remember the flood that hit Des Moines?

Before we start complaining about a cover up and that the city will be inhabitable for 10 years, let’s try to get some hard data first, shall we?

I don’t doubt that there will be areas, especially in the industrial sectors, that will have some lingering issues that will have to be dealt with, but I doubt that they will be any worse than the issues that they were dealing with before the hurricane. This in not a pristine wildlife preserve, this is a major shipping port and oil terminal with refineries all over the place, and it’s in Louisiana, a state not known for the quality of it’s environmental protection program.
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