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NEWS: 7,000 Forced Abortions and Sterilizations In Chinese Province In Three Months

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posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 04:52 AM
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After being strongly criticized by the central government for not reaching poulation control targets, 7,000 people have been forced to undergo abortions and sterilizations in Yinan county in the Eastern province of Shangong. Reports from lawyers speaking to local family planning officials have stated that people have been beaten to death in detention for trying to assist family members who were being forced to undergo the proceedures.
 



www.news24.com

"They told me they were doing this for my own good. But they have ruined my life," Time quoted one woman who it said had endured forced sterilisation as saying.

The magazine said that officials denied any improper programme.

It further reported that the lawyers alleged that several villagers were beaten to death while under detention for trying to help family members avoid sterilisation.

But Time said that officials in the provinces have resorted to forced sterilisations and late-term abortions to keep the population in check.

The magazine said that family-planning officials in March started trawling villages, looking to force women pregnant with illegal children to abort, and to sterilize those who already had the maximum allotment of children under the local family-planning policy.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


There are many problems with Chinese one child policy as we already knew, one of course is the ratio of 20 men to every woman and that figure will climb. This is the height of a regime gone wrong.

To kill these people for what natures has deemed right from the beginnings of time is wrong, so wrong on so many levels. This is Chinese regime and humanity in one of the worse lights that humanity can be shown in.

Related News Links:
www.abc.net.au




posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 05:24 AM
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Dear Mr. (___fill_in_the_blank___)

I'm sorry but my English friend and I are sitting here laughing our arses off at your complete lack of ???Something??? regarding the ratio of men to women in China.

We're in China now, and I'm looking out the window and seeing lots and lots of hot beautiful Chinese girls!! So when you can prove that 20:1 sex ratio exists in China, please tell me so I can get a plane ticket to Rio A.S.A.P.


00ps out!

[edit on 12-9-2005 by 00PS]


D

posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 05:52 AM
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I'm guessing you're living in the city yes?

As in many countries there are people living outside of the cities. Yes, there are people outside the concrete jungles. And China has a huge rural population. Ever thought of that before making such a statement?



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 06:52 AM
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Woah excuse me D,

Have you ever thought about a 20:1 men/woman ratio and thought how absurd it is? Come on you must be joking....


So in China you can only have children if you are married and you can only have one kid if you belong to the Han ethnicity, one of 56 ethnicities. All other ethnicities can have as many children as they want. If you are not married you cannot have children.

By this other dudes statement, 19 men cannot and will never have children.

If the ratio is truly 20:1, China wouldn't have a popluation problem at all.

And yes, I live in the city but I've been here 3 and a half years and have been to the countryside plenty of times....

Is that all ya got?

[edit on 12-9-2005 by 00PS]



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 07:12 AM
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Rather than sniping, isn't it infinitely easier to just research the topic further to back up/rebut any claims?

Washington Post article


Overall, Chinese researchers say, there are 41 million more males than females among China's 1.2 billion people, up 10 percent from the previous estimate in 1997.


Obviously, this is nowhere near a 20:1 ratio.

Article from US Embassy in China


However population statistics show that the sex ratio in China is unique among all the large countries of the world. Artificial sex selection is the cause of this..... These practices have aggravated the imbalance in the Chinese sex ratio. In some areas the male : female sex ratio has reached 130:100.


So, even at a generous estimate, the higher figures seem to apply only to certain areas, and are not representative of the true countrywide phenomenon.

Assuming all figures are trustworthy, of course, which is a different matter entirely.

PubMed abstract



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 07:27 AM
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I'd just like to point out here that this is the kind of thing that can happen when the government gets involved in the reproductive choices of women. Forced abortion... How awful to impose such a personal issue!

Legally forcing abortion is as bad as making abortion illegal.



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 07:52 AM
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What other option would you prefer than legally forced abortions?



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 08:15 AM
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I'm not really for abortion, but forced abortion is just flat out crazy. To be honest I think that it's just flat out wrong for a goverment to ever be that involved with the people's lives. Now yes theres obvioiusly a population issue, but forced abortion is no way to go.



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 08:22 AM
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Very sad indeed, and for a "Culture of Life" as the US seems to be calling itself this days, we most see the real hard and nasty factor, China overpopulation is becoming a hazard to their nation.

Yes the government will force abortions and sterilization and that is inhuman in our western views.

China is a country that has keep itself close to the rest of the world for many years that is a great way to keep their ethnic identity but also has make possible for the nation to become stranded from any other possible ways to grow economically.

Now that they are opening littler by littler, their population is so great that they country economical grow is absorb by the same population.

What will you do about it?

Should we criticize their tactics of population control? and at the same time tell them how to do their business?

Let them spill over their borders to other nations to start a war for resources and land.?

Or should we let part of the population move to the US and let them reproduce freely here.

I tell you what if we are having problems with over population now in the US specially south of the borders illegal aliens wait to see what happen if we allowed them to come to the US and reproduce freely.


We can see the whole issue as a bad inhumane ordeal, or you can see the issue as the problems of a nation with population control.



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 08:35 AM
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Of course the 20 men:1women ratio is ridiculous on a nationwide scale, but this can be possible in a city of an industrialising nation. Peasants(i mean men here) are attracted by the prospect of getting a job easily which is usually not the situation, and they migrate to these cities which are already heavily populated. This is how you may get the 20:1 ratio.

Of course I'm opposed to these forced abortions and sterilisation. They are simply inhumane(hey mod will i get banned for saying this?). Hey c'mon we only sterilise stray cats and dogs here. Again we see the chinese government's indecisiveness. In a few decades we'll see China facing a serious aging population problem. There are simply too few young people left to support the whole nation. They are not thinking for their future generation.



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 08:41 AM
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What other option would you prefer than legally forced abortions?


Oh, I don't know.

Maybe one of the following?

Not forcing abortions at all.
Allowing people to have as many children as they see fit (and are able to support).
Staying the heck out of the reproductive rights of a population?

Any/all of the above would be a better alternative.



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by Tinkleflower

What other option would you prefer than legally forced abortions?


Oh, I don't know.

Maybe one of the following?

Not forcing abortions at all.
Allowing people to have as many children as they see fit (and are able to support).
Staying the heck out of the reproductive rights of a population?

Any/all of the above would be a better alternative.



How about national lotteries that says who can reproduce or not?
Or merit systems based on job and or taxes paid?

These sound rediculous, as does forced abortions but you are not being realistic...

Not forcing abortions at all, staying the heck out of reproductive rights and letting people have as many children as they want is unimaginable.

I've lived in China for 3.5 years and THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE!!!

All social services are suffering and stretched thin because of the mere fact that THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE!!!

If you are against forced abortions, do you have any counter policy to stem population growth?



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 09:52 AM
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Guess you do not want to be sterilised against your own will?



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by NotheRaGe
Guess you do not want to be sterilised against your own will?


I don't think it's proper or right, but neither is the problem.

So how can a messed up situation have anything but a messed up solution?

Bottom line there are too many people. If people don't follow the rules of having more than one Child what can you do?

Forced abortions are extreme and less common if practiced at all. What is legally in place is a fine based on income. This situation doesn't work 100% to deter people especially in a country where sex education is underfunded and near to non-existent in many parts.



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by 00PS

I've lived in China for 3.5 years and THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE!!!

All social services are suffering and stretched thin because of the mere fact that THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE!!!



I tell you the irony on all these problems facing China, they are having problems we all know.

We can sit and condemn their ways of population control, but if China decide to spill over their borders with their massive Army to claim land through war, I bet that the same people that complain about the inhumane conditions will also be the first ones to want US to go and fight against China and be more than happy to help with population control killing a few.

The Irony of what goes on in the world and the way we are so brainwashed to perceive is just to big to get a good grasp of it.

Funny.



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 10:00 AM
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There's part of your answer right there - proper sex education.

If you use a messed up solution to try and fix a messed up problem, you're going to end up with nothing but a bigger mess for all involved.

I don't have the answers. I wish I did, truly.

But forcing abortion is not going to solve a darn thing.

Edit: Found the following population density figures:

Rank, Nation, Density:

1 Monaco 16,620

2 Singapore 6,389

7 Bangladesh 1,002

15 Netherlands 395

17 Belgium 340

18 Japan 337

33 United Kingdom 243

54 P Rep of China 136


From this we can see that population density though obviously not accounting for the difference in city v. remote areas, is a contributing factor. Too many people in the cities, too few in the rest of the country.

Though it wouldn't be an immediate effect, perhaps if more money was used to making certain areas more habitable, the population density wouldn't be such an issue, which would make the "overpopulation" issue even less of a problem?

World population density stats

[edit on 12-9-2005 by Tinkleflower]



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 10:04 AM
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That was great marg! I've always liked your posts and this is another great one of them. Way to go.


To everyone else, I'm not supporting the current policy, I'm just provoking thought on the situation and the reality facing a country that is too massive for it's own good.



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 10:07 AM
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Sex education is definately good in a country where AIDS is spreading like wildfire. It is also good to deter against other STDs and teenage pregnancies.

What sex education won't do however is deter peoples will to procreate. Having an overpopulation problem deters many people to not have children in its own but proper sex education cannot change the will of people to create offspring and continue family lineage.

that's interesting to think messed up solutions to messed up problems create more messed up situations. That's probably right. I don't have the answers either. But I recogize there is a massive problem for this massive country and sometimes the most effective measures are the least humane!



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 10:19 AM
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Dang double post.



[edit on 12-9-2005 by Tinkleflower]



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 10:28 AM
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I don't think overpopulation is based on density entirely.

China passed the 1.3 billion people mark. Their current government has only been in place since 1949. They've gone through political turmoil and cultural repression. Their policies are result to all of this and are on their own development process.

No one in the world has dealth with a population size this massive under a single order.

The problem of overpopulation in China is about sustaining a newly formed country with a massive and ethnically diverse population - probably more this than population density...

I'm not sure.



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