It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by gps777
[18] Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Originally posted by gps777
The examples i gave you on why i can not as a Christian trust Freemasonry to be biblicly based when it looks into someones past,regardless of who the person maybe at the time,does`nt sound anything like my God would accept as His own principles.He forgets when repented on purpose.
If Christianity only allowed the clean,Christianity would`nt exist accept for Christ.Freemasonry only cares about its image and you defend it?.
Originally posted by saint4God
Looks to me they never had the light (God) in the first place, blatantly ignoring scripture in excange for their own 'rule of law'.
Originally posted by Masonic Light
Were the Christians who told Magellan that the earth was flat in need of more light?
Any educated person knew full well the earth was round by Magellan's time. What source is this coming from?
It's obvious to me that wordly knowledge is being hailed as "the light" which Biblically is supposed to be God.
Originally posted by The Axeman
Oh, come on, man! You know good and well that's not what he meant... or perhaps you didn't read the rest of the sentance?
Originally posted by The Axeman
Only because you seem not to be paying attention... or you just made an honest mistake, one of the two.
As mentioned, it was the scriptures that were used to condemn Galileo.
Originally posted by AngelWitch
I know in my community, the local Baptist church is a primary sponsor of the local BSA Cub Scout pack
but going by Saint4Gods statements, wouldn't this be "being yoked with unbelievers"?
Originally posted by Masonic Light
As mentioned, it was the scriptures that were used to condemn Galileo. No less than Martin Luther called Copernicus a "fool", saying that the latter had placed his own authority above that of the Holy Spirit by theorizing that the earth revolved around the sun.
Originally posted by Masonic Light
Galileo proved this mathematically, pointing out its eliptical orbit in detail. The Bible is quite clear in stating that the earth doesn't move, and this contradiction with the scriptures landed Mr. Galilei in hot water.
Originally posted by Masonic Light
Were the Christians who told Magellan that the earth was flat in need of more light?
Any educated person knew full well the earth was round by Magellan's time. What source is this coming from?
This is actually a very famous quote, and was used by Mark Twain. Nevertheless, you can find it in many places online, including here:
quotes.prolix.nu...
Originally posted by Masonic Light
Ah, now we're getting somewhere. If God is Light, and if Knowledge is Light, then God is obviously the giver of all Knowledge. It must come from Him.
Originally posted by Masonic Light
So, the question here is: who gave us better knowledge of the empirical world's relation to the solar system....was it the Bible (through David's claim that the earth sits still), or was it Science (through Galileo, who said the earth revolves around the sun in an elliptical orbit)?
Originally posted by saint4God
Originally posted by The Axeman
Oh, come on, man! You know good and well that's not what he meant... or perhaps you didn't read the rest of the sentance?
Gotcha. It's a hard read and think that sentence can be taken either way without your highlights. My apologizes to Nygdan if you had meant it the way Axeman said it.
Thank you for the benefit of the doubt. If anything, I was paying "too much" attention and picked up on some meaning in the middle of it all.
I am not a Master Mason, so I'd be quite a fool if I [thought I] could do anything more than ask questions and assess the answers.
Originally posted by The Axeman
I didn't say it any differently, I merely pointed out your oversight regarding what he said.
Originally posted by The Axeman
Of course. I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt; unless, of course, they are an obvious troll, which you are not.
Originally posted by The Axeman
I'm going to assume you meant to add the words in brackets; if so, what does that make me?! Am I a fool for being of the opinion that I understand the concepts and principles of Freemasonry? I'm not a Master Mason... indeed, I have yet to even be initiated. I've simply done my homework and applied some critical thinking.
Originally posted by The Axeman
If that's not what you meant, please explain.
Originally posted by saint4God
Isn't that what got us into all this mess in the first place? Seeking knowledge instead of seeking God? (Genesis 3). Seeking the creation instead of (and without) God gets us into trouble. That's what the whole Old Testament is all about.
from: en.wikipedia.org...
Gnosticism also presents a distinction between the highest, unknowable "alien God" and the "creator" of the material - the Demiurge. However, in contrast to Plato, many systems of Gnostic thought present the Demiurge as antagonistic to the will of the Supreme Creator: this sort of Demiurge focusses solely on material reality and on the "sensuous soul". In this system, the Demiurge acts as a solution to the problem of evil. In the Apocryphon of John (in the Nag Hammadi library), the Demiurge has the name "Yaltabaoth", and proclaims himself as God:
"Now the archon who is weak has three names. The first name is Yaltabaoth, the second is Saklas, and the third is Samael. And he is impious in his arrogance which is in him. For he said, 'I am God and there is no other God beside me,' for he is ignorant of his strength, the place from which he had come."
Yaldabaoth literally means "Child, come hither" in a certain Semitic language. Gnostic myth recounts that Sophia (literally 'wisdom', the Demiurge's mother and aspect of the Father) desired to create something apart from the Father to which he did not consent. In this act of separation, she gave birth to the Demiurge and being ashamed of her deed, she wrapped him in a cloud and created a throne for him within it. The Demiurge did not see her, nor anyone else, and thus concluded that only he himself existed, he did not know the source of his power and did not know that there was someone above him. The myth is full of intricate nuances portraying the first separation which later turned into the entrapment of the divine spark, Sophia, within the human form. This spark is latent until awakened by a call and the knowledge of one as this divine spark is the beginning of restoration of Sophia as well as gnosis.
from: en.wikipedia.org...
Gnosticism generally taught that the Earth was ruled over by a lesser "god" called Yaldabaoth, also known as the Demiurge, after Plato (Gr. demiurgos - "one who shapes"). The Demiurge was the head of the Archons, "petty rulers" and craftsmen of the physical world. But human bodies, although their matter is "fallen", contained within them a divine spark or pneuma that fell from the Source, or Nothingness from which all things came. Knowledge (gnosis) enables the divine spark to return to the Source whence it came.
It is improper to declare that all Gnostics felt matter to be completely negative. In many instances, matter is merely described as "evil", as in Plotinian philosophy, as a method of depicting its extreme separation from the primary source of being. Many Gnostics also made use of ritual; ritual being the manipulation of material objects in imitation of divine events or occurences, this presupposes at least the ability of matter to be used for positive effect. Valentinus himself, often referred to as the Gnostic teacher par excellence, only referred to matter as an obscuration of the truth, and its creator only as ignorant of higher powers, not as evil.
In another similarity to Plotinus, many Gnostics (especially the followers of the aforementioned Valentinius) taught that there was the One, the original, unknowable God (sometimes named Bythos, the Monad as it is called by Monoimus, or the first Aeon); and then from the One emanated other Aeons, pairs of lesser beings in sequence. (Valentinius listed 30 such pairs.) The Aeons together made up the Pleroma, or fullness, of God. The lowest of these pairs were Sophia ("Wisdom" in Greek) and Christ.
In the Valentinian Gnostic creation myth, Sophia sought the unknowable One. In one account, she saw a distant light which was in fact a mirror image, and thus drifted even farther away from the pleroma.
Sophia's fear and anguish of losing her life, just as she lost the light of the One, caused confusion and longing to return to it. Because of these longings the matter (Greek: hyle) and the soul (Greek: psyche) accidentally came into existence through the four classical elements fire, water, earth, and air. The creation of the lion-faced Demiurge is also a mistake during this exile, according to some Gnostic sources, as a result of Sophia trying to emanate on her own, without her male counterpart. The Demiurge proceeds to create the physical world in which we live, ignorant of Sophia, who nevertheless manages to infuse some spiritual spark into the creation of the Demiurge. This spark is the pneuma.
After this the savior (Christos) returns and lets her see the light again, bringing her knowledge of the spirit (Greek: pneuma). Christ was then sent to earth in the form of the man Jesus to give men the gnosis needed to rescue themselves from the physical world and return to spiritual world.
Originally posted by saint4God
Thank you for the source. As I've said though, I have no doubt Magellan was defiant to many authorities, that's easy to establish. This doesn't make him a hero in my book any more than Martin Luther being a hero in yours.
Isn't that what got us into all this mess in the first place? Seeking knowledge instead of seeking God? (Genesis 3). Seeking the creation instead of (and without) God gets us into trouble. That's what the whole Old Testament is all about.
5He established the earth upon its foundations,
So that it will not totter[or move out of place] forever and ever.
Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding,
2For He has founded it upon the seas
And established it upon the rivers.
Originally posted by saint4God
Originally posted by AngelWitch
I know in my community, the local Baptist church is a primary sponsor of the local BSA Cub Scout pack
but going by Saint4Gods statements, wouldn't this be "being yoked with unbelievers"?
The Boy Scouts did not claim to help anyone on their spiritual jouney, to take an oath to each other, be "the light", etc. I'm not justifying the Boy Scouts because personally I think there are more beneficial organizations to join.
First off, Scripture is infallable...
Exodus 29:38 "This is what you are to offer on the altar regularly each day: two lambs a year old. 39 Offer one in the morning and the other at twilight. 40 With the first lamb offer a tenth of an ephah [c] of fine flour mixed with a quarter of a hin [d] of oil from pressed olives, and a quarter of a hin of wine as a drink offering. 41 Sacrifice the other lamb at twilight with the same grain offering and its drink offering as in the morning—a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire.
42 "For the generations to come this burnt offering is to be made regularly at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting before the LORD. There I will meet you and speak to you; 43 there also I will meet with the Israelites, and the place will be consecrated by my glory.
Originally posted by saint4God
I think I got the information I needed. Since there are no further questions for me I'll be on my way.
Originally posted by The Axeman
Do you have no response to my post?
I'm curious as to your opinion on what I posted concerning the Old Testament.
Also my previous post about sacrifices... I'm not trying to argue with you, I just want to know what you think, and why. I'm always interested to find out why people who are so steadfast in their beliefs as to be intolerant are so adamant about it.
So there are questions for you after all!
Originally posted by saint4God
Isn't that what got us into all this mess in the first place? Seeking knowledge instead of seeking God?
Originally posted by junglejake
First off, Scripture is infallable...