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Originally posted by The_Final
Or unless you will just stop posting in order to leave before you are in a corner in which you are unable to spew more crap about masonry out. But honestly I want to hear back from you,that goes with every other anti-mason on this board. Come one and come all!
Jas.5
[12] But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
[34] But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
`
Rom.16
[17] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
[18] For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Originally posted by gps777
Can you prove Final that no Mason worships Lucifer for one?
Who ever the individual Mason worships be it the Great Sacred Pineapple would be offensive to the True God, no?
I have my doubts that you are a Christian Final but if you are you should be able to understand why Christians would have strong reluctance to become a Mason.
If a Christian Mason is comfortable with their decisions after hearing other Christian`s concerns its pointless to keep harping about it
Originally posted by gps777
Can you prove Final that no Mason worships Lucifer for one?
Originally posted by Trinityman
Hi Cicada
Welcome to ATS.
Now I'm not a latin scholar, but I do know that lucis is latin for light, and I'm fairly sure that is the root of lucifer. Interesting post though.
Originally posted by gps777
So thats one reason why i can not become a Mason as a Christian,not because i wont stand next to someone else who prays to another God,but because Freemasonry groups them all to mean the same.
For another is being born again to Christ the true light,i could not go through or be offended that in a ritual you are told that you were once in the dark and now brought into the light.
.
...expects each member to follow his own faith, and to place above all other duties his duty to God, by whatever name He is known. (United Grand Lodge of England)
Which is sort of on topic as false light from my point of view.I can only say i hope for your sake Trinity that from a true Brothers (in the true sense of the word,not a Mason brother) view this is taken as a concern and not an attack.
Originally posted by gps777
Who ever the individual Mason worships be it the Great Sacred Pineapple would be offensive to the True God, no?
For the Christian Mason have you ever read these?
Jas.5
[12] But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
[34] But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Originally posted by gps777
For another is being born again to Christ the true light,i could not go through or be offended that in a ritual you are told that you were once in the dark and now brought into the light.
Originally posted by Stegosaur
You'd do well to read the Good Book from cover to cover and do a little critical thinking on the subject.
Originally posted by Stegosaur
Masonry doesn't need or want judgmental fundamentalists that only seek to cause division between people in an effort to "save someone's soul", which is really just a marketing campaign to convert (brainwash?) others to Christianity. Masonry is about bettering yourself, not bettering everyone around you in the way that you see fit.
Originally posted by Stegosaur
You are entitled to your opinion, but so is everyone else, and insisting that your view is superior because it is some "mandate of God" as you interpret it from one text certainly doesn't make you an expert on what it takes to be a good person, or even a good Christian, for that matter. Who gave you the square and compass so that you could accurately judge anyone else or their decisions?
Originally posted by Masonic Light
Originally posted by gps777
Jas.5
[12] But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
[34] But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
It has long been the tradition of the Church, both Catholic and Protestant, that oaths may be taken if necessary. The Quakers and Jehovah's Witnesses forbid the taking of an oath, but I know of no other denominations who do. Oaths are required when testifying in court, entering into public service, and entering in the military. Lastly, the Apostle Paul put himself under oath at least 4 times in the Bible.
Originally posted by Masonic Light
The people of the dark ages practiced Christianity, but to say they were not in need of more light is obviously false.
Originally posted by saint4God
Actually Masonic Light, this gives me cause not to swear in when testifying in court, public service or the military... my "yes" and "no" should be good enough. Just because "everybody is doing it" is no reason to jump on the 'band wagon'.
Also, I'd like to see the 4 times Paul put himself under oath. I have a Book, just need the passages you're referring to.
In addition, I noticed the Masonic oath-takings call upon a very negative turn of events to occur to a person who breaks the oath. In the olde days, they call that a curse. Even the Old Testament has a nice example of why we should not swear something bad to happen if an oath is made. In a church's commitment statment (I have one in front of me), I don't see anything about throats being slit. In fact, I hear nothing about breaking the commitment at all.
Originally posted by saint4God
Christians need more like than God?
Originally posted by saint4God
In addition, I noticed the Masonic oath-takings call upon a very negative turn of events to occur to a person who breaks the oath. In the olde days, they call that a curse. Even the Old Testament has a nice example of why we should not swear something bad to happen if an oath is made. In a church's commitment statment (I have one in front of me), I don't see anything about throats being slit. In fact, I hear nothing about breaking the commitment at all. Funny how church is being used as the parallel here for Masonic oaths...
Originally posted by Masonic Light
The following are quotes from the Apostle Paul, authorized King James Version:
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers.
- Romans 1:9
Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth.
- II Corinthians 1:23
Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.
- Galatians 1:21
For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.
- Phillipians 1:8
Originally posted by Masonic Light
However, even then, there is no evidence that the penalties were literal, and were most probably used in order to impress upon the candidate's mind the seriousness of his obligation to secrecy.
Originally posted by Masonic Light
I assume you meant to say "light".
Originally posted by Masonic Light
If so, I would say that no one needs more light than God.
Originally posted by Masonic Light
However, many need more light than religion. After all, God and religion are two very different things.
Originally posted by Masonic Light
This is where religion exits, and God enters. It was God, not religion, who gave us the gifts of reason and logic, and it was God who created Nature, the study of which is science.
Originally posted by Masonic Light
Reason, Logic, and Science were the heralds of the Enlightenment, and when a candidate is brought from darkness to light in Masonry, it represents this transition. Casting off the chains of ignorance, and accepting those gifts that God gave him to understand the world around him. This is why I say that Masonry can only be understood in its proper historical context, because it all refers to the social conditions of the early Enlightenment.
Originally posted by gps777
In most of what you wrote would and should offend most Christian Masons though i guess you dont care about them either.
I can see it as Satan`s hiss.