Concerning Lucifer in Freemasonry, page 4

Originally posted by MrNECROS
The Final - I normally ignore attempts to bait me by Freemasons such as yourself but I really can't understand how you guys will throw away ANY statement you don't like just out of hand.

Heh. Heheheh. You see?

EVERYONE is a Freemason and NO ONE will admit it. Heheh.

Why read Moral & Dogma "backwards"?

Because Freemasonry is composed of a "series of veils” which are removed one at a time as you progress toward the higher degrees.
If you start at the 32nd Degree and work your way back then you begin with a condensed review of the entire Rite and then progress backwards from "The Truth" to what is acceptable by the ignorant hoards that call themselves Masons.

I can't help but notice your complete avoidance of my post which laid to rest pretty much everything you said about Lucifer and war being the driving principle and all. Am I surprised? Heheh. No. No I'm not. Not at all.

I get this reaction from every Freemason I show a copy of either "Morals & Dogma" or "The Book" to.
They are so sure that a profane is so stupid that they could never understand these works that they will not even entertain the thought of discussion.
Bad news is that these works are NOT some arcane and magical work - they merely need time and commitment to read.

You get what reaction? The idea that you should start at the beginning of the book and read front to back? Doesn't take a genius to know that is the way books are written.

BTW, I am "profane" at this point, and I have had no trouble whatsoever understanding Morals and Dogma... not only have I "entertained the thought" of discussion I have opened it up for everyone to participate in if they will. I notice you don't have anything to say there though, when Pike's words are presented so that the people you are attempting to decieve with your intellectual dishonesty can see what the pages actually say.

But I'm actually a Freemason just pretending that I am not, right Necros?

I am yet to meet a Freemason in real life or in any Internet forum that has actually read either of these books, even if they try to claim otherwise (why anyone would actually try to lie about this sort of thing is beyond me.)

While I'm not finished, I'm working on it (front to back). The index is my friend though, and I bounce around some.

Your ignorance (or probably more accurately downright dishonesty) about the subject of Masonry is nothing short of astounding. Why would someone lie about this kind of thing? You must know...

p.s. The bit about Good/Evil etc is near the bottom of this page.
But then again the whole thing isn't too hard to read.

No, it's not hard to read. In fact, let's take a look, shall we?

(mods please forgive the long quote)

pp. 858-861, Chapter 32: Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret

The ROYAL SECRET, of which you are Prince, if you are a true Adept, if knowledge seems to you advisable, and Philosophy is, for you, radiant with a divine beauty, is that which the Sohar terms The Mystery of the BALANCE. It is the Secret of the UNIVERSAL EQUILIBRIUM:--

--Of that Equilibrium in the Deity, between the Infinite Divine WISDOM and the Infinite Divine POWER, from which result the Stability of the Universe, the unchangeableness of the Divine Law, and the Principles of Truth, Justice, and Right which are a part of it; and the Supreme Obligation of the Divine Law upon all men, as superior to all other law, and forming a part of all the laws of men and nations.

--Of that Equilibrium also, between the Infinite Divine JUSTICE and the Infinite Divine MERCY, the result of which is the Infinite Divine EQUITY, and the Moral Harmony or Beauty of the Universe. By it the endurance of created and imperfect natures in the presence of a Perfect Deity is made possible; and for Him, also, as for us, to love is better than to hate, and Forgiveness is wiser than Revenge or Punishment.

--Of that Equilibrium between NECESSITY and LIBERTY, between the action of the DIVINE Omnipotence and the Free-will of man, by which vices and base actions, and ungenerous thoughts and words are crimes and wrongs, justly punished by the law of cause and consequence, though nothing in the Universe can happen or be done contrary to the will of God; and without which co-existence of Liberty and Necessity, of Free-will in the creature and Omnipotence in the Creator, there could be no religion, nor any law of right and wrong, or merit and demerit, nor any justice in human punishments or penal laws.

--Of that Equilibrium between Good and Evil, and Light and Darkness in the world, which assures us that all is the work of the Infinite Wisdom and of an Infinite Love; and that there is no rebellious demon of Evil, or Principle of Darkness co-existent and in eternal controversy with God, or the Principle of Light and of Good: by attaining to the knowledge of which equilibrium we can, through Faith, see that the existence of Evil, Sin, Suffering, and Sorrow in the world, is consistent with the Infinite Goodness as well as with the Infinite Wisdom of the Almighty.

Sympathy and Antipathy, Attraction and Repulsion, each a Force of nature, are contraries, in the souls of men and in the Universe of spheres and worlds; and from the action and opposition of each against the other, result Harmony, and that movement which is the Life of the Universe and the Soul alike. They are not antagonists of each other. The force that repels a Planet from the Sun is no more an evil force, than that which attracts the Planet toward the central Luminary; for each is created and exerted by the Deity, and the result is the harmonious movement of the obedient Planets in their elliptic orbits, and the mathematical accuracy and unvarying regularity of their movements.

--Of that Equilibrium between Authority and Individual Action which constitutes Free Government, by settling on immutable foundations Liberty with Obedience to Law, Equality with Subjection to Authority, and Fraternity with Subordination to the Wisest and the Best: and of that Equilibrium between the Active Energy of the Will of the Present, expressed by the Vote of the People, and the Passive Stability and Permanence of the Will of the Past, expressed in constitutions of government, written or unwritten, and in the laws and customs, gray with age and sanctified by time, as precedents and authority; which is represented by the arch resting on the two columns, Jachin and Boaz, that stand at the portals of the Temple builded by Wisdom, on one of which Masonry sets the celestial Globe, symbol of the spiritual part of our composite nature, and on the other the terrestrial Globe, symbol of the material part.

--And, finally, of that Equilibrium, possible in ourselves, and which Masonry incessantly labors to accomplish in its Initiates, and demands of its Adepts and Princes (else unworthy of their titles), between the Spiritual and Divine and the Material and Human in man; between the Intellect, Reason, and Moral Sense on one side, and the Appetites and Passions on the other, from which result the Harmony and Beauty of a well-regulated life.

Which possible Equilibrium proves to us that our Appetites and Senses also are Forces given unto us by God, for purposes of good, and not the fruits of the malignancy of a Devil, to be detested, mortified, and, if possible, rendered inert and dead: that they are given us to be the means by which we shall be strengthened and incited to great and good deeds, and are to be wisely used, and not abused; to be controlled and kept within due bounds by the Reason and the Moral Sense; to be made useful instruments and servants, and not permitted to become the managers and masters, using our intellect and reason as base instruments for their gratification.

And this Equilibrium teaches us, above all, to reverence ourselves as immortal souls, and to have respect and charity for others, who are even such as we are, partakers with us of the Divine Nature, lighted by a ray of the Divine Intelligence, struggling, like us, toward the light; capable, like us, of progress upward toward perfection, and deserving to be loved and pitied, but never to be hated nor despised; to be aided and encouraged in this life-struggle, and not to be abandoned nor left to wander in the darkness alone, still less to be trampled upon in our own efforts to ascend.

From the mutual action and re-action of each of these pairs of opposites and contraries results that which with them forms the Triangle, to all the Ancient Sages the expressive symbol of the Deity; as from Osiris and Isis, Har-oeri, the Master of Light and Life, and the Creative Word. At the angles of one stand, symbolically, the three columns that support the Lodge, itself a symbol of the Universe, Wisdom, Power, and Harmony or Beauty. One of these symbols, found on the Tracing-Board of the Apprentice's Degree, teaches this last lesson of Freemasonry. It is the right-angled Triangle, representing man, as a union of the spiritual and material, of the divine and human. The base, measured by the number 3, the number of the Triangle, represents the Deity and the Divine; the perpendicular, measured by the number 4, the number of the Square, represents the Earth, the Material, and the Human; and the hypothenuse, measured by 5, represents that nature which is produced by the union of the Divine and Human, the Soul and the Body; the squares, 9 and 16, of the base and perpendicular, added together, producing 25, the square root whereof is 5, the measure of the hypothenuse.

And as in each Triangle of Perfection, one is three and three are one, so man is one, though of a double nature; and he attains the purposes of his being only when the two natures that are in him are in just equilibrium; and his life is a success only when it too is a harmony, and beautiful, like the great Harmonies of God and the Universe.

Such, my Brother, is the TRUE WORD of a Master Mason; such the true ROYAL SECRET, which makes possible, and shall at length make real, the HOLY EMPIRE of true Masonic Brotherhood.

GLORIA DEI EST CELARE VERBUM. AMEN.

Well. So the part about "good and evil" you refer to is that "which assures us that all is the work of the Infinite Wisdom and of an Infinite Love; and that there is no rebellious demon of Evil, or Principle of Darkness co-existent and in eternal controversy with God, or the Principle of Light and of Good... that the existence of Evil, Sin, Suffering, and Sorrow in the world, is consistent with the Infinite Goodness as well as with the Infinite Wisdom of the Almighty."

So basically what he is saying here is that everything comes from God, and that even though there is indeed sin and suffering in the world, it is for a purpose which, in His Wisdom He sees fit? Perhaps to elevate those who would overcome such evil and sin? To "seperate the wheat from the chaff" so to speak?

He does not, as you claim, say that there is no difference between good and evil, only that everything has its place and in God's Wisdom and in His plan everything is in balance.

Balance is a part of life. Without it we would constantly be at odds with ourselves and everyone else, including God.

Also please note that "Math" books along with most works of non-fiction are not read from front to back at all once you get out of Primary school.

Also please not that you cannot do geometry, trigonometry, or calculus until you can add, subtract, multiply and divide... and you understand the mathematical symbols and what they represent.