Concerning Lucifer in Freemasonry

Well after seeing so many anti-masonry threads, I figured I should do something along the lines of what Axemen did in one of his posts. Make a water tight post about a subject that is often commonly misunderstood. So what I have chosen is the idea that Freemasonry is "proven" to worship Lucifer. Or simply that they are their own religion. There are many topics concerning this subject. Here are a few:


Jahbulon - Masonic God


Proof that Freemasonry is a Religion


Freemasonry - Two Organizations,One Visible, The Other Invisible.


Freemasonry and Sun Worshipping


Freemasonry and Satanism

Everything that is underlined through out this article will be defined at the bottom before Sources. Since I feel that if we can establish such things that it would make it easier to understand one another.


After spending less than five minutes finding this many threads, I was interested in finding the sources for such accusations. So I did what 99% of people do when they want to find information out. I did a Google Search, I simply typed in Evil Masons into the search bar. And what do you know I got these results.
the second link provided was from the Cutting Edge so this is where I chose to start my search.

When I began to read no sooner did I reach the second paragraph I was told that:

Finally, remember two things about Masonry: 1) Superior Masons deliberately lie to their fellow Masons, as those Masons "deserve to be mislead"; 2) Explanations given to 95% of all Masons are wrong

I won't begin to discuss this topic but here is a good link which answers many questions brought up while I go through sites and other
information.

Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not![Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff; Red Emphasis added]

Since this site actually provided real evidence to this claim I went out and read the book.

What the actual paragraph says is this:

The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! for traditions are full of Divine Revelations and Inspirations: and Inspiration is not of one Age nor of one Creed. Plato and Philo, also, were inspired.

Moral's and Dogma: Source
Everything Italicized was left out of the orignal article.

One key point that was left out, when presenting the text as support to the idea that Freemasonry worships Lucifer, was this line:

which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer.

I feel that the key word is despises, establishes the fact that this paragraph is directed to be against Lucifer, not trying to connect it to a God that Freemasonry supposedly worships.

The only way that any form of Religion is tied into Freemasonry is the required belief in a Supreme being. This Supreme Being doesn't have to be the Christian God or the Jewish God etc. Also some of the ceremonies have ties to simple christian beliefs and teachings.

When continuing the page you notice that what I have quoted is brought up and is simply thrown away using poor logic:

At first glance, this sentence seems to contradict the one we first quoted above, where Pike identifies Lucifer as the Masonic Light-bearer.

Nowhere does Pike identify Lucifer as the Masonic Light-bearer, it makes no sense. I was trying to figure out a way to argue this, but I feel the poor evidence for it says its all. For anything he is saying to go towards God's light, not Lucifer's pomps. If you continue reading the page, the author goes on about how different symbols in Freemasonry relate to different Satanic symbols. Until near the bottom does it project this statement:

Satan is not a black god, but negation of God ... this is not a Person, but a Force, created for good, but which may represent evil. It is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force ... under the mythologic and horned form of the God Pan; thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer ..." [Pike, Morals and Dogma, p. 102]

As I read this I found nothing wrong with this. Satan was orgnially made for good, but was able to turn evil. And the old Pagan god Pan was used to represent him, reasons of which can be found elsewhere. The author tries to say that Masons say that he is God through this article by making words such as Pan, serpent and light-bearer in red.

If you would like to become Born Again, turn to our Salvation Page now.

So by the end of this page I come to find out that the entire article was to convince people that by being a Freemason, you cannot be christian. Which has been proven time and time agian to be false. When I set out to try to make a decent reading article to prove that Freemasonry was not Satanic, I have found that I have done a poor job of it. I have come to realize that All I have to do is simply show the true quote, put things into context and just laugh along with the readers when stupid assumtions are made. If someone would like to present me with some sound evidence, I would gladly discuss it. Also if anyone has anything to add to this it would help. Sorry for any spelling errors, or any errors in my grammar. I hope my time wasn't wasted in trying to present this. I would gladly update this or rewrite the entire article if anyone would offer me the suggestion.



Definitions

God
1.the supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in monotheistic religions

Freemasonry
1.A worldwide fraternal organization. Its members are joined together by shared ideals, of both a moral and metaphysical nature, and, in most of its branches, by a common belief in a Supreme Being. Freemasonry is an esoteric art, in that certain aspects of its internal work are not generally revealed to the public. Masons give numerous reasons for this, one of which is that Freemasonry uses an initiatory system of degrees to explore ethical and philosophical issues, and this system is less effective if the observer knows beforehand what will happen.

Lucifer
1.used as a name of the devil
2.Lucifer is a Latin word derived from two words, lux (light; genitive lucis) and ferre (to bear, to bring), meaning light-bearer. Lucifer does not appear in Greek or Roman mythology; it is used by poets to represent the Morning Star at moments when "Venus" would intrude distracting imagery of the goddess. "Lucifer" is Jerome's direct translation in his Vulgate (4th century) of the Septuagint's Greek translation, as heosphoros, "morning star", l
iterally "bringer of the Dawn"

Pomp
1. a show of magnificence

Religion
1b. the service and worship of God or the supernatural
2. commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

Satanist
1.innate wickedness : DIABOLISM
2.obsession with or affinity for evil; specifically : the worship of Satan marked by the travesty of Christian rites

Satanic
1.of, relating to, or characteristic of Satan or satanism
2.characterized by extreme cruelty or viciousness

Sun Worship
1.A solar deity is a deity who represents the Sun. People have worshipped the Sun and solar deities for all of recorded history. Hence, many beliefs and legends have been formed around this worship.

Supreme Being
See God

Worship
1.idolize: love unquestioningly and uncritically or to excess; venerate as an ido



Sources:

-Topic Links
-Abovetopsecret.com

Definitions
-Merriam-Webster Online
-Wikipedia
-Google Define


Internet Sources
-Cutting Edge


Further Reading:
- Albert Pike: A Man Misunderstood
- Freemasonry FAQ's
- A Page About Freemasons









[edit on 11-9-2005 by The_Final]

The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! for traditions are full of Divine Revelations and Inspirations: and Inspiration is not of one Age nor of one Creed. Plato and Philo, also, were inspired.

I take your word for showing the correct passage,in reading it though it could be said that its an instruction to Mason`s to understand where their light comes from and is where i think all the who ha comes from.What was Pikes intention on how its interpreted is the question on this.I would bet their are a number of Masons who would interpret this as saying Lucifer is their light bearer.Cant you see that it could be seen that way?

Oh can you please tell me what thread Axe started that is water tight.

[edit on 11-9-2005 by gps777]
[edited quote codes -nygdan]

[edit on 13-9-2005 by Nygdan]

yeah theres too much to freemasonry for it not to be a religion. i mean if youre taking enlightenment from a higher source, taking information, studying in certain aspects/practices of different religions then yes, its definitely a religion.

totally wierd, with the whole lucifer thing. if its all true how could they think people arent smart enough to figure this out? it doesnt make much sense. i would hate to hear them say that lucifer was a person of good works before he turned evil. or try to say claim something like him being related to jesus.

the final have you heard about that jota character the one where masons supposedly talk to him and call upon him. hes small and looks sort of like the yoda in star wars. (as a description)

gps777:

Thread Started by The Axemen:

Albert Pike: A Man Misunderstood

Regarding the passage from that I cited:
Moral's and Dogma
Page 321 chapter 19 entitled Grand Pontiff

topsecretombomb:
I am unsure who you are talking about,that jota character, feel free to u2u me.

Thanx for the link of Axes Final though i`m not that interested in Pike no offence.But will know where to look if i need to,and by saying i take your word for showing the correct passage i meant exactly that.But i suppose someone else might want to check your word.

It does`nt matter who wrote these quotes it just so happens that a renouned Mason wrote them but they are suspect to say the least Pike,Bush,Pope etc if they wrote it they would still come into question,its also easily understood why Masons would support Pike not to damage their name.I can hear them all saying we support him cause he`s right,well pardon me, please see it from others perspectives not perspectives that are in your org`s best interests.

Edit to add

As even the correct quote is still suss,either quote cant still be interpreted as worship of Lucifer.Whether that was Pikes intention i`d love to have asked him and recieved an honest answer.








[edit on 12-9-2005 by gps777]

Thanks for the heads up already added the source below my quote Anything else you could tell me to change would be greatly appreciated

Originally posted by gps777
quote:
The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! for traditions are full of Divine Revelations and Inspirations: and Inspiration is not of one Age nor of one Creed. Plato and Philo, also, were inspired.
end quote

What was Pikes intention on how its interpreted is the question on this.

I think that sentence is read better if you add a few commas and such:
Is it he who bears the Light? And with its spledors, intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls?

Its sayint that he almost punishes souls with his "light" I think he was tyring to say that Lucifers light is an almost false light. Trying to steer humanity from the Creators light.


[edit on 11-9-2005 by The_Final]

YOUR interpretation from a Christian perspective would be correct in that veiw,but i can see it that Pike was`nt refering to how you explained it.But if that is your true personal thourghts on it i`d say you are correct in your view and a heathy one.

But this i can also interpret truthfully in a very negative way and if i can you can bet others can and will.

quote:
Satan is not a black god, but negation of God ... this is not a Person, but a Force, created for good, but which may represent evil. It is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force ... under the mythologic and horned form of the God Pan; thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer ..." [Pike, Morals and Dogma, p. 102] eiw and a healthy one.

The question remains what was Pike real intention on how this was to be interpeted.

You have voted The_Final for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Bravo! I must say I admire your "independent research".

We as Mason's have tried and tried and tried some more to convey these sentiments only to be dismissed as biased.

99.999% of Masonry can be learned without ever joining the Craft. All you have to do is legitimate research. Which is where part of the problem lies, muddling through the quagmire of outlandish accusations.

To paraphrase what someone once said.... A lie repeated too often becomes fact. And unfortunately Masonry falls victim to this all too often

The other 0.001% has to be experienced, nothing nefarious, just the personal feeling of the individual. Each member will bring away something of their own, and that cannot always be put into words.

I just wish most had the desire to do what you have, find the truth for themselves.

But this i can also interpret truthfully in a very negative way and if i can you can bet others can and will.

If you can write what you think he is trying to protray by breaking it down, I think that would greatly help me in trying to present my thoughts.

The question remains what was Pike real intention on how this was to be interpeted.

Albert Pike: A Man Misunderstood



I was just discussing the reasoning behind freemasonry and the supposed satanic religion. Now what you were asking how he ment for it to be protrayed you can go to Axemens topic. But as I said above that if you were to write the quote how you see it or break it down I would gladly try to explain it to you using a more broad term.

Originally posted by Golfie

You have voted The_Final for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Bravo! I must say I admire your "independent research".

I just wish most had the desire to do what you have, find the truth for themselves.

Thank you, this statement alone makes me want to continue to try to research more, and see if I can bring more information out about what Freemasonry really is. Since I am not a Freemason, nor can I be currently I'm only 16, I think people will have an easier time believing it.

Originally posted by The_Final

If you can write what you think he is trying to protray by breaking it down, I think that would greatly help me in trying to present my thoughts.

[

Why should it be broken down if it was meant to be read it in entirety,you can add commas and question mark as you did to show me how you view it,i view it for how he wrote it.Thats why i can interpret it differently.

[edit on 11-9-2005 by gps777]

Why should it be broken down if it was meant to be read it in entirety,you can add commas and question mark as you did to show me how you view it,i view it for how he wrote it.Thats why i can interpret it differently.

[edit on 11-9-2005 by gps777]

I did that merely as an aid. I didn't change his message, I just made it easier to read. And not broken down, but adresss each statement, so I know where the confusion is occuring. Or are you implying that you are simply going to view it how you like? No malice intended, I am just wondering if you are trying to show me no matter how I show people someone will always interpret it differently?

Originally posted by The_Final


I did that merely as an aid. I didn't change his message, I just made it easier to read. And not broken down, but adresss each statement, so I know where the confusion is occuring. Or are you implying that you are simply going to view it how you like?

No malice intended, I am just wondering if you are trying to show me no matter how I show people someone will always interpret it differently?

I respect all of these thoughts Final,and i`m glad our feathers hav`nt been ruffled over this topic and i hope they never do,but it is a very touchy subject that we can all agree on i`m sure.

Personally i can veiw it either way swaying toward your view of it but with an air of healthy uncertainty referring to the first quote,i`m glad you see it the way you have explained to his first quote you provided.

This the second
Satan is not a black god, but negation of God ... this is not a Person, but a Force, created for good, but which may represent evil. It is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force ... under the mythologic and horned form of the God Pan; thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer ..." [Pike, Morals and Dogma, p. 102]

Satan a force created for Good?,i can see why people would get their knickers in a knot over that comment and MAY represent evil? that knots just got tighter and cutting of circulation to their extemities,and so we cant ?have free will or liberty with God ,we have Satan to thank for that they are now jumping up and down screaming he`s the devil himself (Pike),and on about the light bearer again,which he (Pike)was referring as the light bearer in the other quote with the two combined is where my interpretation of Pike`s interests turn negative and will be suspicious of him not to mention his other so called interests and buddies that i`ve read.

It dos`nt affect me either way,if he (Pike)did or did`nt worship Lucifer i suspect he did likened to he points out the atrributes of Satan as being a false light i suspect he was a false light bearer himself, Masons could or would say i`m a false light bearer,that would be true in some circumstances through mistakes,Christ is the true light ,i suspect Pikes aim is to be a false light mine is not, if it was`nt for your (and Masons)quotes of Pike i would never have bothered to read them and after i had it still has`nt done anything for myself at all.Positive or negative because i dont trust what i`ve read of his views.

There are many ways to interprete the Bible as we know,and as our understanding grows so do our interpretations mature.The same could be said about a lot of books to be fully understood,but as i`ve said i`m not interstested in Pike,i just gave comments on those quotes.

Please Final dont expect me to read M&D so i can get a better understanding of Pike there are already plenty of books i should be reading that will better suit my needs.Pikes interpretations of God Satan Lucifer are`nt from these quotes of his on the top of my list as what i would call someone i could trust entirely,but to reiterate your interpretation of it(the first quote anyway) is healthy in your personal view so i dont fear your being lead astray reguardless of Pike

I think i will go and check out Axes thread but i dont trust Axe either no offence Axe lol (better clean that up)he`s never insulted me and i him in personal attacks,he`s a smart and well learned fella i dont share his faith in Masonry,what i`ve wittnessed of him is that he will remain staunch on his veiws even when proven wrong on a topic outside the realms of Masonry.So be careful saying his thread is water tight he probably has`nt come up against the right person like in this thread.(Loungerist)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Notice in the beginning of that thread how all the Mason`s and pro Mason`s were boasting and riduculing?and through out the thread Loungerest remained on target and refained from personal insults and was was clearly the victor if thats not a clue (good men becoming better and all),which to insumountable proof and logic Axe had to concede only in the end,and his little side kick mainly doing the insults in support of Axe (blind support)nor did i see the little side kick for calling them all those names after the fact Axe conceded.Now it dose`nt surprise me they wont listen to anyone other than who is for them,everyone else are just idiots, tin foil hat wearer`s,fundies etc.Mason`s way or the highway attitude.

[edit on 12-9-2005 by gps777]

I just read about ten post`s the post you say is water tight and like the reasons i probably passed on reading it in the first place is because its the usual remarks to good questions in my opinion.

quick example

Mason: we`re all great and your all nuts because of this............

Antimason:but what you guys are devil worshipers so what about this............

Mason:this clearly is proven wrong here look nut job wwwmason.com...............

Antimason:but thats not proof at all and isn't what i was getting at

Mason:cant you read( insult`s)fundies i dont know

etc...........

etc...........

Either way you want to look at it,its not for me as a Christian thats my opinion based on the bible,your opinion its water tight and that Christian`s with my views are wrong.

What i do find hilarious they(Masons) quote Pike on on a paragraph where its saying to treat your brothers with mercy and kindness and then straight under the quote they slander people.Unless Pike is instructing Masons to treat everyone else like garbage.So even if they believe his words were good they dont follow them.Not saying that i think his (Pike)words are words that i believe to be Gods truth because i dont.

I think it's important to remember that Pike was well aware that the term "Lucifer" doesn't represent the devil. As a scholar of the Bible and other antiquities, Pike knew as well as any other student of sacred history that Lucifer is a Latin title, which does mean "light bearer." I find it extremely funny when anti-Masons whine about Pike calling Lucifer "light bearer", since that's exactly what it means.

Furthermore, Pike knew this Latin term is nowhere to be found in the original Bible. It makes an appearance in the KJV Isaiah, where it denotes not a demon, but the human king of Babylon, Tigleth Pilaser III (just ask any rabbi or Christian student of Old Testament history). The myth that the devil is a fallen angel named Lucifer comes from Milton's epic poem "Paradise Lost", not the Bible.

Therefore, Pike states the obvious: "Lucifer" is a strange and mysterious name for people to give to the prince of darkness. Why would someone call the "spirit of darkness" the light bearer? For whatever reason, some Christians do continually. This is what Pike in his other quote called "the false Lucifer of the legend".

I can understand your point of view ML and i`ve seen it hashed out between the two sides before and it still comes down to ones interpretation of it ,i`ll hunt for it i dont hold as much faith on searching this site as i do in Christ though lol.

The part you find extremely funny that we whine about the light bearer....there`s more to it than that,you`ve probably read the Bible i`ll spare you the verses ,can you agree with me to a point that there are Stern warning`s about a false light or better Satan can come as an Angel of light that we are to be on the guard from,thats where it comes from which is heathy if you believe in Christ as saviour and His Father in the first place.

Either way ML i`m glad you guy`s get a smile from us,its better to be happy and laughing than gloomy and miserable even if your wrong it should`nt degenerate into insults on a person view or interpretation and when i first posted here a year or so ago i apoligise for my participation in that,though dont take this as justifying my actions i only jumped in when Masons were gang tackling a soul member with insults and slander and personal opinion`s.

You(we)hear, read and wittness and make a personal decision on what we consider is right according to Gods word and or any other matter good luck with your choices and decisions.

Edit to add,this is`nt the one i was hoping to find but its one none the less.
Referring to Milton
post number 1467352 posters name Jake1997
John Milton (1608-1674)

KJV bible 1611. Unless Milton did all of this by the age of 3, I doubt it comes from him.


Sevenstars 777

Yes, Lucifer was the highest of angels. The bible calls him the cherub that covers. Until he rebelled

Taken from here on the subject,and yes i did take note of the following comments referring to it.
www.belowtopsecret.com...

And post number 1473221 from Jake1997 concerning King Tyre and Lucifer from the same page.

P.S. i have faith in the KJV bible but is not where my faith rests,my faith comes from a belief and a personal expirence with Christ as my Lord something that i can not deny if i wanted to.

[edit on 13-9-2005 by gps777]

Originally posted by gps777

The part you find extremely funny that we whine about the light bearer....there`s more to it than that,you`ve probably read the Bible i`ll spare you the verses ,can you agree with me to a point that there are Stern warning`s about a false light or better Satan can come as an Angel of light that we are to be on the guard from,thats where it comes from which is heathy if you believe in Christ as saviour and His Father in the first place.

But one who bears a false light isn't really a "light bearer" at all. But please read on.

Edit to add,this is`nt the one i was hoping to find but its one none the less.
Referring to Milton
post number 1467352 posters name Jake1997
John Milton (1608-1674)

KJV bible 1611. Unless Milton did all of this by the age of 3, I doubt it comes from him.

I realize that the KJV is older than "Paradise Lost". My point is simply that the tale of a fallen named Lucifer who became the devil was Milton's invention: the story is not found in the Bible, KJV or otherwise.

Yes, Lucifer was the highest of angels. The bible calls him the cherub that covers. Until he rebelled

The Bible never speaks of an angel named Lucifer. The "cherub that covereth" quote, taken from Ezekiel, says nothing about "Lucifer". Actually, in context, it refers to the man who was the current king of Tyre.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Actually, in context, it refers to the man who was the current king of Tyre.

King Hiram??

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
yeah theres too much to freemasonry for it not to be a religion. i mean if youre taking enlightenment from a higher source, taking information, studying in certain aspects/practices of different religions then yes, its definitely a religion.

So atheists who study the history and development of religion are.....religious?? Masonry is secular, it doesn't matter what religion you are, you can participate.

jota

There is no entry for 'jota' in Mackey's Encyclopedia. What source are you getting this from?? I can't help wonder, if its true, if Lucas infact modeled Yoda on Jota. Jedi are somewhat masonic if you think about it.

[edit on 13-9-2005 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by Nygdan

King Hiram??

No, it referred to the king of Tyre during Ezekiel's career, long after the death of King Hiram of Tyre. Ezekiel 28:2 says, " Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God".

Then skip to verse 12, where the "cherub" verse begins. It is obvious that Ezekiel is here referring to a human, as he himself states matter-of-factly, and not a supernatural being, much less an angel called Lucifer.