Concerning Lucifer in Freemasonry, page 1
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Topic started on 11-9-2005 @ 10:03 PM by The_Final
Well after seeing so many anti-masonry threads, I figured I should do something along the lines of what Axemen did in one of his posts. Make a water tight post about a subject that is often commonly misunderstood. So what I have chosen is the idea that Freemasonry is "proven" to worship Lucifer. Or simply that they are their own religion. There are many topics concerning this subject. Here are a few:


Jahbulon - Masonic God



Proof that Freemasonry is a Religion



Freemasonry - Two Organizations,One Visible, The Other Invisible.



Freemasonry and Sun Worshipping



Freemasonry and Satanism


Everything that is underlined through out this article will be defined at the bottom before Sources. Since I feel that if we can establish such things that it would make it easier to understand one another.


After spending less than five minutes finding this many threads, I was interested in finding the sources for such accusations. So I did what 99% of people do when they want to find information out. I did a Google Search, I simply typed in Evil Masons into the search bar. And what do you know I got these results.
the second link provided was from the Cutting Edge so this is where I chose to start my search.

When I began to read no sooner did I reach the second paragraph I was told that:
Finally, remember two things about Masonry: 1) Superior Masons deliberately lie to their fellow Masons, as those Masons "deserve to be mislead"; 2) Explanations given to 95% of all Masons are wrong


I won't begin to discuss this topic but here is a good link which answers many questions brought up while I go through sites and other
information.


Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not![Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff; Red Emphasis added]

Since this site actually provided real evidence to this claim I went out and read the book.

What the actual paragraph says is this:

The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! for traditions are full of Divine Revelations and Inspirations: and Inspiration is not of one Age nor of one Creed. Plato and Philo, also, were inspired.

Moral's and Dogma: Source
Everything Italicized was left out of the orignal article.

One key point that was left out, when presenting the text as support to the idea that Freemasonry worships Lucifer, was this line:

which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer.

I feel that the key word is despises, establishes the fact that this paragraph is directed to be against Lucifer, not trying to connect it to a God that Freemasonry supposedly worships.

The only way that any form of Religion is tied into Freemasonry is the required belief in a Supreme being. This Supreme Being doesn't have to be the Christian God or the Jewish God etc. Also some of the ceremonies have ties to simple christian beliefs and teachings.

When continuing the page you notice that what I have quoted is brought up and is simply thrown away using poor logic:

At first glance, this sentence seems to contradict the one we first quoted above, where Pike identifies Lucifer as the Masonic Light-bearer.


Nowhere does Pike identify Lucifer as the Masonic Light-bearer, it makes no sense. I was trying to figure out a way to argue this, but I feel the poor evidence for it says its all. For anything he is saying to go towards God's light, not Lucifer's pomps. If you continue reading the page, the author goes on about how different symbols in Freemasonry relate to different Satanic symbols. Until near the bottom does it project this statement:

Satan is not a black god, but negation of God ... this is not a Person, but a Force, created for good, but which may represent evil. It is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force ... under the mythologic and horned form of the God Pan; thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer ..." [Pike, Morals and Dogma, p. 102]

As I read this I found nothing wrong with this. Satan was orgnially made for good, but was able to turn evil. And the old Pagan god Pan was used to represent him, reasons of which can be found elsewhere. The author tries to say that Masons say that he is God through this article by making words such as Pan, serpent and light-bearer in red.


If you would like to become Born Again, turn to our Salvation Page now.

So by the end of this page I come to find out that the entire article was to convince people that by being a Freemason, you cannot be christian. Which has been proven time and time agian to be false. When I set out to try to make a decent reading article to prove that Freemasonry was not Satanic, I have found that I have done a poor job of it. I have come to realize that All I have to do is simply show the true quote, put things into context and just laugh along with the readers when stupid assumtions are made. If someone would like to present me with some sound evidence, I would gladly discuss it. Also if anyone has anything to add to this it would help. Sorry for any spelling errors, or any errors in my grammar. I hope my time wasn't wasted in trying to present this. I would gladly update this or rewrite the entire article if anyone would offer me the suggestion.



Definitions

God
1.the supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in monotheistic religions

Freemasonry
1.A worldwide fraternal organization. Its members are joined together by shared ideals, of both a moral and metaphysical nature, and, in most of its branches, by a common belief in a Supreme Being. Freemasonry is an esoteric art, in that certain aspects of its internal work are not generally revealed to the public. Masons give numerous reasons for this, one of which is that Freemasonry uses an initiatory system of degrees to explore ethical and philosophical issues, and this system is less effective if the observer knows beforehand what will happen.

Lucifer
1.used as a name of the devil
2.Lucifer is a Latin word derived from two words, lux (light; genitive lucis) and ferre (to bear, to bring), meaning light-bearer. Lucifer does not appear in Greek or Roman mythology; it is used by poets to represent the Morning Star at moments when "Venus" would intrude distracting imagery of the goddess. "Lucifer" is Jerome's direct translation in his Vulgate (4th century) of the Septuagint's Greek translation, as heosphoros, "morning star", l
iterally "bringer of the Dawn"

Pomp
1. a show of magnificence

Religion
1b. the service and worship of God or the supernatural
2. commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

Satanist
1.innate wickedness : DIABOLISM
2.obsession with or affinity for evil; specifically : the worship of Satan marked by the travesty of Christian rites

Satanic
1.of, relating to, or characteristic of Satan or satanism atanic pride> atanic rites>
2.characterized by extreme cruelty or viciousness

Sun Worship
1.A solar deity is a deity who represents the Sun. People have worshipped the Sun and solar deities for all of recorded history. Hence, many beliefs and legends have been formed around this worship.

Supreme Being
See God

Worship
1.idolize: love unquestioningly and uncritically or to excess; venerate as an ido



Sources:

-Topic Links
-Abovetopsecret.com

Definitions
-Merriam-Webster Online
-Wikipedia
-Google Define


Internet Sources
-Cutting Edge


Further Reading:
- Albert Pike: A Man Misunderstood
- Freemasonry FAQ's
- A Page About Freemasons









[edit on 11-9-2005 by The_Final]


reply posted on 11-9-2005 @ 10:27 PM by The_Final
gps777:

Thread Started by The Axemen:

Albert Pike: A Man Misunderstood

Regarding the passage from that I cited:
Moral's and Dogma
Page 321 chapter 19 entitled Grand Pontiff

topsecretombomb:
I am unsure who you are talking about,that jota character, feel free to u2u me.


reply posted on 11-9-2005 @ 11:15 PM by The_Final

But this i can also interpret truthfully in a very negative way and if i can you can bet others can and will.

If you can write what you think he is trying to protray by breaking it down, I think that would greatly help me in trying to present my thoughts.


The question remains what was Pike real intention on how this was to be interpeted.

Albert Pike: A Man Misunderstood



I was just discussing the reasoning behind freemasonry and the supposed satanic religion. Now what you were asking how he ment for it to be protrayed you can go to Axemens topic. But as I said above that if you were to write the quote how you see it or break it down I would gladly try to explain it to you using a more broad term.


reply posted on 12-9-2005 @ 12:39 AM by gps777
Originally posted by The_Final


I did that merely as an aid. I didn't change his message, I just made it easier to read. And not broken down, but adresss each statement, so I know where the confusion is occuring. Or are you implying that you are simply going to view it how you like? No malice intended, I am just wondering if you are trying to show me no matter how I show people someone will always interpret it differently?



I respect all of these thoughts Final,and i`m glad our feathers hav`nt been ruffled over this topic and i hope they never do,but it is a very touchy subject that we can all agree on i`m sure.

Personally i can veiw it either way swaying toward your view of it but with an air of healthy uncertainty referring to the first quote,i`m glad you see it the way you have explained to his first quote you provided.

This the second
Satan is not a black god, but negation of God ... this is not a Person, but a Force, created for good, but which may represent evil. It is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force ... under the mythologic and horned form of the God Pan; thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer ..." [Pike, Morals and Dogma, p. 102]

Satan a force created for Good?,i can see why people would get their knickers in a knot over that comment and MAY represent evil? that knots just got tighter and cutting of circulation to their extemities,and so we cant ?have free will or liberty with God ,we have Satan to thank for that they are now jumping up and down screaming he`s the devil himself (Pike),and on about the light bearer again,which he (Pike)was referring as the light bearer in the other quote with the two combined is where my interpretation of Pike`s interests turn negative and will be suspicious of him not to mention his other so called interests and buddies that i`ve read.

It dos`nt affect me either way,if he (Pike)did or did`nt worship Lucifer i suspect he did likened to he points out the atrributes of Satan as being a false light i suspect he was a false light bearer himself, Masons could or would say i`m a false light bearer,that would be true in some circumstances through mistakes,Christ is the true light ,i suspect Pikes aim is to be a false light mine is not, if it was`nt for your (and Masons)quotes of Pike i would never have bothered to read them and after i had it still has`nt done anything for myself at all.Positive or negative because i dont trust what i`ve read of his views.

There are many ways to interprete the Bible as we know,and as our understanding grows so do our interpretations mature.The same could be said about a lot of books to be fully understood,but as i`ve said i`m not interstested in Pike,i just gave comments on those quotes.

Please Final dont expect me to read M&D so i can get a better understanding of Pike there are already plenty of books i should be reading that will better suit my needs.Pikes interpretations of God Satan Lucifer are`nt from these quotes of his on the top of my list as what i would call someone i could trust entirely,but to reiterate your interpretation of it(the first quote anyway) is healthy in your personal view so i dont fear your being lead astray reguardless of Pike

I think i will go and check out Axes thread but i dont trust Axe either no offence Axe lol (better clean that up)he`s never insulted me and i him in personal attacks,he`s a smart and well learned fella i dont share his faith in Masonry,what i`ve wittnessed of him is that he will remain staunch on his veiws even when proven wrong on a topic outside the realms of Masonry.So be careful saying his thread is water tight he probably has`nt come up against the right person like in this thread.(Loungerist)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Notice in the beginning of that thread how all the Mason`s and pro Mason`s were boasting and riduculing?and through out the thread Loungerest remained on target and refained from personal insults and was was clearly the victor if thats not a clue (good men becoming better and all),which to insumountable proof and logic Axe had to concede only in the end,and his little side kick mainly doing the insults in support of Axe (blind support)nor did i see the little side kick for calling them all those names after the fact Axe conceded.Now it dose`nt surprise me they wont listen to anyone other than who is for them,everyone else are just idiots, tin foil hat wearer`s,fundies etc.Mason`s way or the highway attitude.

[edit on 12-9-2005 by gps777]


reply posted on 12-9-2005 @ 11:47 PM by gps777
I can understand your point of view ML and i`ve seen it hashed out between the two sides before and it still comes down to ones interpretation of it ,i`ll hunt for it i dont hold as much faith on searching this site as i do in Christ though lol.

The part you find extremely funny that we whine about the light bearer....there`s more to it than that,you`ve probably read the Bible i`ll spare you the verses ,can you agree with me to a point that there are Stern warning`s about a false light or better Satan can come as an Angel of light that we are to be on the guard from,thats where it comes from which is heathy if you believe in Christ as saviour and His Father in the first place.

Either way ML i`m glad you guy`s get a smile from us,its better to be happy and laughing than gloomy and miserable even if your wrong it should`nt degenerate into insults on a person view or interpretation and when i first posted here a year or so ago i apoligise for my participation in that,though dont take this as justifying my actions i only jumped in when Masons were gang tackling a soul member with insults and slander and personal opinion`s.

You(we)hear, read and wittness and make a personal decision on what we consider is right according to Gods word and or any other matter good luck with your choices and decisions.

Edit to add,this is`nt the one i was hoping to find but its one none the less.
Referring to Milton
post number 1467352 posters name Jake1997
John Milton (1608-1674)

KJV bible 1611. Unless Milton did all of this by the age of 3, I doubt it comes from him.


Sevenstars 777

Yes, Lucifer was the highest of angels. The bible calls him the cherub that covers. Until he rebelled

Taken from here on the subject,and yes i did take note of the following comments referring to it.
www.belowtopsecret.com...

And post number 1473221 from Jake1997 concerning King Tyre and Lucifer from the same page.

P.S. i have faith in the KJV bible but is not where my faith rests,my faith comes from a belief and a personal expirence with Christ as my Lord something that i can not deny if i wanted to.

[edit on 13-9-2005 by gps777]
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