It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Intelligent Design: WHY Hurricane Katrina MUST be An Act of God?

page: 3
0
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 01:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by kastinyque
It seems that whenever anything devestating on a large scale happens there are people saying that it was an act of god, it seems like a convienient way to ignore the damage that WE have done to our earth and our ozone layer. You add that damage to the fact that were in a polar tilt it shouldn't suprise anyone that the weather and the earths geology are throwing us a few disasters. IMO this was an act of ignorance to our enviroment , not an act of god.


Because christians like to give GOD credits for everything good happen to people; they call it miracles. If you recovered from sickness, its a miracle of god instead of the doctors and researchers. If you escape from a horrible accident, you thank god intead of your rescuers. Since God has been taking all these credits, why not take some blame?




posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 06:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by Funkydung


if you dont know that disease is the result of "sin" then there is no use for me to reply to the rest of your post.



18months old sinner dies of meningitis....




this would never be if sin wasnt introduced into the world 6000 years ago. dont put blame on the one who created you put blame on the one who is trying to destroy you. its what we have inherited. death is the result of sin. a headache is a result of sin. broken bones, bad music, ignorance, chaos, war, high gas prices, doesnt matter what age.
[edit on 21-1-2006 by Funkydung]


I always knew coldplay had that look in their eyes...

[edit on 22-1-2006 by melatonin]

[edit on 22-1-2006 by melatonin]



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 11:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by melatonin
I always knew coldplay had that look in their eyes...



melatonin:

"I always knew coldplay had that look in their eyes..."


LCKob:

Not sure what you last statement means here... could you clarify?





I do agree totally with your context and logic about the "18 month old sinner"

... I fail to see the logic and or compassion in allowing for pain and death to innocents (like babies) under a blanket charge of "sins from past ancestors" or any reason for that matter ...

This is just my opinion, but I would like to think that if there is a diety responsible for creating us ... and we assume under a compassionate guise, then would not such a caring creator shield and protect the truly helpless and innocent ... in the way that loving parents protect and shield their young children from harm?

The point or discrepancy I find most compelling from a logical and emotional standpoint is why penalize the truly innocent?

In response to this question, as seen above, some will say or imply that it is the our original sin? or perhaps the adversary to god that allows for this pain and suffering? In which case I offer the following questions ...

1. Would it not be better for this diety, who is purported to have immense of not omnipotent powers to judge each individual separately based upon personal merit (or lack therof) ... or if this is the case, why do the just and good die pointless or tragic deaths, when criminals live?

2. Depending on semantics and which source is taken as reference ... one could argue various perspectives on why the Devil is still around?

For example:

If god is omnicient then this diety would know what its creation Lucifer? would do ... (after all this diety made everything to divine spec?) ... thus it could be said that Lucifer was made to fullfill a (known role) as opposition? If this is the case, then could it not be said that this god is directly responsible for everything in the universe (that it created) including all the evils as perpetrated through any active divinely designed agents i.e. the fallen angels?

So within this context, one could say that "God" is responsible by design proxy or extension for all the ills and evils in the world along with all that is good ... i.e. everything.

... or ... that if god is everything, then this god is both good and evil ... which to my mind makes more sense if we are purportedly "made in his image?"

... or if the above is not the case, and god is not everything, cannot do everything, or does not know everything ... then this diety is not Omnicient and or Omnipotent ...

... which would to my mind explain the present situation equally (if not better ) concerning the dilemna of the "18 month old sinner".

... or perhaps that there is no god or at least not in the traditional sense ... which would seem to explain this scenario as well.

Food for thought ...

LCKob



[edit on 22-1-2006 by LCKob]
Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 23-1-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 12:01 PM
link   
I wasn't exactly being serious...

Sin is caused by the devil....bad music is a sin.....coldplay is bad music....coldplay is a sin caused by the devil

oh well....



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 12:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by melatonin
I wasn't exactly being serious...

Sin is caused by the devil....bad music is a sin.....coldplay is bad music....coldplay is a sin caused by the devil

oh well....


hahaha ...
Got it ... (note to self ... incorporate latest pertinent findings into music database for assessment and personal integration ...


LCKob



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 09:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by LCKob
I do agree totally with your context and logic about the "18 month old sinner"

... I fail to see the logic and or compassion in allowing for pain and death to innocents (like babies) under a blanket charge of "sins from past ancestors" or any reason for that matter ...

This is just my opinion, but I would like to think that if there is a diety responsible for creating us ... and we assume under a compassionate guise, then would not such a caring creator shield and protect the truly helpless and innocent ... in the way that loving parents protect and shield their young children from harm?

The point or discrepancy I find most compelling from a logical and emotional standpoint is why penalize the truly innocent?


in the first place, nobody’s innocent. And that’s the first problem. God doesn’t let any innocent person suffer; nobody’s innocent. It just so happens that the fabric of humanity is stained, that the root was sin, and the wages of sin is what? Death. Everybody’s going to die, everybody. Who am I to assume that one or another death is less significant or tragic than another? People always say, “Isn’t it tragic when a little baby dies?” Not nearly as tragic as when someone who has lived a whole life dies, and never knew how to live or how to die.

I believe the Bible indicates to us that when a little baby dies, when an infant dies or a child dies, before they can come to the point, to the age of understanding (often called “the age of accountability”) that God takes that little one to Himself. You remember when David’s little son died in the Old Testament? That infant born of Bathsheba died… That was a child born out of sin, born in sin, a sinful child, but it died--he died--and David said, “He can’t come to me, but I will go to him.” And I think David expressed a confidence: David knew where he was going. And he believed with all his heart that where he was going was where that little life was, that the God he knew to be a God of grace would have gathered that little life to Himself. Jesus said in Mark 10, “Permit the little children to come unto me and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of God.” And then Jesus took the little ones into His arms, and a most interesting statement: “He blessed them; He laid hands on them.” What does that mean? I believe that Jesus had a very tender spot in His heart and a very special place in His eternal kingdom for little ones. And the truth of the matter is that in those countries that are the most pagan countries in the world, very often they have the highest infant mortality rate, because God, in His grace, redeems those little ones before they can grow up and be old enough to be raised in a godless culture.


Does it makes sense to be angry with God because he permits suffering? Not when you consider that God has promised to end all suffering.

[edit on 22-1-2006 by Funkydung]

[edit on 22-1-2006 by Funkydung]
Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 23-1-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 10:12 PM
link   
Funkydung:

"...And the truth of the matter is that in those countries that are the most pagan countries in the world, very often they have the highest infant mortality rate, because God, in His grace, redeems those little ones before they can grow up and be old enough to be raised in a godless culture."

LCKob:

Funkydung, you are entitled to your beliefs, that is your right ... now having said that, I totally disagree with you here ... a baby is innocent, and not "deserving" of such a fate of pain and death, and if such is allowable or justifiable by your god/religion for the reasons given then I will have no part of it, with the earnest hope that your view does not represent more than an extremist minority within the Christian Community.


[edit on 23-1-2006 by LCKob]
Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 23-1-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 08:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by StJude
BaastetNoir- we meet again


Always a pleasure, and i'm not even beeing sarcastic




God made all men equally. Except those born with AIDS or fatal diseases. Except women who supposedly have the stain of original sin on their souls from birth. How do you expect a day old smack baby born with a faulty heart to stick some program and claim the reward?


It is not God's fault that babies are born with AIDS ,... this is one of the few cases where you can only blaim the parents. 99 % of people get AIDS because of their unprotected and unreseaneble behaviour.. so why blame God for soemthing they did ? its their poor kids that suffer for their mistakes.

As to birth defects and other sadnesses, i often asked myself "why would God allow this?"... teh only answer i came up with is, so that we learn how to love and respect those who are born with disavantages... We are so hang-up on looks, that someone who doesnt fit-in doesnt really have much chance to "loved"... i believe these people come to the world to teaches the old lesson of " not judging a book by its cover", but for soem reason... we STILL don't listen.


Not to mention you got this idea from the bible which is a document based on faith not fact. A document written by Christians for Christians to promote and spread Christianity.


The same would go for a document written by Wiccnas for Wiccans, and by Msulems for Muslems, and by etc. for etc. don't you believ man are equal ? or SHOULD BE TREATED, LOVED and RESPECTED EQUALY ? And you assume i am a Christian simply because i defend Jesus, but I'm not. I simply dont see the point of waisting my time, trying to debunk other peoples Faith... if they want to bleiev Jesus gave His life for them and their Sins...let them.. i have no problem with it.




If the Jews are gods chosen people then surely I'd have to become Jewish and if Jews are Gods chosen people then surely all men aren't born equal?

no, according to the Bible you just have to become a Christian, and accept Jesus has your Savior. And that has nothing to do with "equals", its the rule of this religion, just like you wont get your 72 virgins in Muslem Heaven unless you become a Muslem and die for the cause. ( btw, this I heard out of the mouth of a Muslem, so dont kill the messenger)

Even amongst God's chosen people ( Jews) there is a big majority that did not accept Jesus as Savior, because they are waiting for Emmanuel, the Lion ..not Jesus the Lamb. ( you can ask them yourself, they'll tell you)

[curse]So we have moved onto curses now. When does this curse on those who curse Isreal kick in exactly. Did God sit high in heaven with a stop watch during the second world war and decide to destroy the Nazis when the figure reached 6 million dead, why didn't he destroy them at 5 million, or 4 , or Zero. I'm sure your answer to that will be something along the lines of "But he gave us free..etc".

hmmm... the word "curse" means "punishement", its not really like witchcraft curse...and Hitler did get so scared out of his mind that he commicted suicide, hows that for a curse...Also there is a "small" detail called "FREE WILL" , it is pretty hard to accept, but once you realize you can only blame yourself for your choices, than its easier to deal with...

If God seat in Heaven interfering with everything down here, how would you make any decisions at all ? At any time you would be about to do something God didnt like, He would Stop it ... well...that would make you and everyone else in the Wordl a puppet... you wouldn't even have the chance to type in thsi Forum against God or anything else...lol... see the difference ?


As for the rules you speak of you got them from the bible which is a document based on faith not fact. A document written by Christians for Christians to promote and spread Christianity.


Just like any other religion... Budhists have their rules as well, as any other Spirituality or Religion. Christianity is not the only one with a Book and rules to follow you know ?



Why are the Palestinians blowing up Jews. Mmm, it might have something to do with the fact that Isreal has built a big wall around them and 50 years ago they stole land that Palestinians had occupied for 2000 years.
Then again surely ( as you claim) That Isrealies blowing up Palestinians is fine because they are Gods "Chosen" People.

We should also remember that you got this idea from the bible which is a document based on faith not fact. A document written by Christians for Christians to promote and spread Christianity.


You do know that the Romans invaded Israel, right ? No Palestinians there at the time... and the Palestinian people was a nomad people, they didnt really have a land of their own, thats why the seatled in Syrian territory for ages....the "palestinian Sate" is nothing but an excuse to blow up Jews,
just like their "Book & Rules" tells them to.

Also, following your line of thought The Native MAericans in this Country should start blowing themselves to see if all the "british" would give them back their land? ... or the Mexicans should blow themselves up to get Texas ?


Again. If you are saying the Jews are Gods Chosen people then all Men are not created equally.


For some reason God chose the Jewish people (Moises to be precise)?
But His choice was made AFTER Humanity was created already, so basically all were created equal.

why did God chose the Jewish people? i dont know, but i have no problem with it.


And lest we forget


That you got this idea from the bible which is a document based on faith not fact. A document written by Christians for Christians to promote and spread Christianity.



Well, isnt it waht this thread is about ? the Christian God ? The God of The Bible ? so what should i be basing myself in ? The Wiccan Law ?

And you still can't disprove the Bible ... no matter how hard people have tried over centuries, it has NEVER been disproven.
And you know what they say... "the burden of proof is in the accuser "...in this case the doubter.


See ya 'round



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 09:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by BaastetNoir

Originally posted by StJude
BaastetNoir- we meet again


Always a pleasure, and i'm not even beeing sarcastic




i like this guy.



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 09:34 PM
link   
ya need to go to "the anti-christian conspiracy" forum if you havent already
www.abovetopsecret.com...

or Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist in Rome
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 23-1-2006 by Funkydung]



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 06:54 AM
link   
BaastetNoir- greetings once more



It is not God's fault that babies are born with AIDS ,... this is one of the few cases where you can only blaim the parents. 99 % of people get AIDS because of their unprotected and unreseaneble behaviour.. so why blame God for soemthing they did ? its their poor kids that suffer for their mistakes.


It is Gods fault see. He created every living thing including bacteria, germs and disease.
Now granted if Eve hadn't eaten the apple after being tempted by a Giant Snake ( I'll try and type that without laughing) then everything would be rosy in ( and outside) of the garden and we wouldn't have disease, death and Kelly Clarkson albums in the world.

As for the unprotected and unreasonable behavior I wonder what you are implying there. As for blaming God it takes a pretty unreasonable one to allow a child to inflicted with AIDS just because his parents had the disease.

Seems like a big flaw in the whole creation of man plan that. A more generous God would not have created a being that can pass on genetic diseases and such to there off spring.

In fact a God who did such a thing could be accused of being a bit of a cruel and unjust sonofabitch.




As to birth defects and other sadnesses, i often asked myself "why would God allow this?"... teh only answer i came up with is, so that we learn how to love and respect those who are born with disavantages... We are so hang-up on looks, that someone who doesnt fit-in doesnt really have much chance to "loved"... i believe these people come to the world to teaches the old lesson of " not judging a book by its cover", but for soem reason... we STILL don't listen.


So let me get this right. People are born with birth defects to teach the "Normal" people a lesson on how to love the contents of a person not the packaging.

So now "Normal" people and Jews are Gods Chosen people and the Handicapped and afflicted are only born to test the rest of us.

With all due respect, that idea is all kinds of Flucking Rubbish.



You assume i am a Christian simply because i defend Jesus, but I'm not. I simply dont see the point of waisting my time, trying to debunk other peoples Faith... if they want to bleiev Jesus gave His life for them and their Sins...let them.. i have no problem with it.


I'm not debunking I am questioning. Religious beliefs have an affect on all us. Many powerful figures and organisations base their judgment and of opinions on their faith and this can have a global effect on peoples lives.
If it effects me I have a right to question it's validity. It's as simple as that.




According to the Bible you just have to become a Christian, and accept Jesus has your Savior. And that has nothing to do with "equals", its the rule of this religion, just like you wont get your 72 virgins in Muslem Heaven unless you become a Muslem and die for the cause. ( btw, this I heard out of the mouth of a Muslem, so dont kill the messenger)


According to the bible Jesus was in Nazereth and Egypt at the same time and a grown man talked to a Burning Bush.

The bible says lots of things and beleiving they are all true is far more ridiculous than beleiving some of it probably isn't.



Even amongst God's chosen people ( Jews) there is a big majority that did not accept Jesus as Savior, because they are waiting for Emmanuel, the Lion ..not Jesus the Lamb. ( you can ask them yourself, they'll tell you)


It is true. The Jews don't accept Jesus as being the Messiah or the Son of God.
Funny really when you consider that the Jews are Gods Chosen people and he sent them his son they rejected him and yet they remain Gods chosen people.

A bit wierd that I think.



You do know that the Romans invaded Israel, right ? No Palestinians there at the time... and the Palestinian people was a nomad people, they didnt really have a land of their own, thats why the seatled in Syrian territory for ages....the "palestinian Sate" is nothing but an excuse to blow up Jews,


"The Palestinian state is nothing more than an excuse to blow up Jews....."

I mean well, how do you reply to such a statement

Here was me thinking the Palestinians had just as much right as the Isrealies then I remembered that the Jews are "Gods Chosen people".

Again with the greatest of respect. A quite ridiculous quote.




why did God chose the Jewish people? i dont know, but i have no problem with it.


You don't know why he did it but you have no problem with it.....

Interesting.



And you still can't disprove the Bible ... no matter how hard people have tried over centuries, it has NEVER been disproven.


The truest thing you have said by far. You can't disprove the bible becuase It's a document based on faith. So what i do now is flip it around and force Christians to prove the bible.

You get a much more telling response.


[edit on 24-1-2006 by StJude]

[edit on 24-1-2006 by StJude]



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 11:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by StJude
BaastetNoir- greetings once more


Good Morning




It is Gods fault see. He created every living thing including bacteria, germs and disease.


My personnal belief is that AIDS is a lb product for "social clean-up", but thats just me... and even if thats true, so called scientists still chose to do it ...


Now granted if Eve hadn't eaten the apple after being tempted by a Giant Snake ( I'll try and type that without laughing) then everything would be rosy in ( and outside) of the garden


Ah... how do you know soemone else would have not screwed up?
and the "serpent" represent the entity of Satan ...not a "talking" snake....at least thast how I see it ...


Kelly Clarkson albums in the world.
...so true... but there would still be Clay aken to give us the final punishment


As for the unprotected and unreasonable behavior I wonder what you are implying there. As for blaming God it takes a pretty unreasonable one to allow a child to inflicted with AIDS just because his parents had the disease.


... well you can't expect to have sex with everyone that crosses your mind, not knowing who or what on Earth they have been doing before, or share needles with 100 people without destroying your own body... Is it God's fault that people bury themsleves with this kind of lack of resposibility ? no.

God created the Universe, but he didnt say " now Go Be dumb, stupid and careless and than blame it on me"... there must be a reason why the Bible recomends marital sex ONLY -- and I'm not beeing a puritane here, i did my share of "hangin'out ", but i was smart enough to be carefull... and i thank God for giving me a brain to think. I take responsibility for the Things that happen to be ...bad or Good...I do blame God... I may thank God for the help, but i wont blame him for my mistakes. We were given free -will and that comes with a WORLD of Responsibility.

The sad thing about all this is that the poor children are born with this deadky desease because their parents were senseless... and than as always are those who get hit without doing anything wrong, like ER doctors, Wives that get it from adulterous husbands and vice-versa...and so on and on... whos fault is it ? God ? no... its the adulterous fault... its the drug addicts fault who contaminated him/herself and than ends up comtaminating a doctor that is only trying to save a life.


Seems like a big flaw in the whole creation of man plan that. A more generous God would not have created a being that can pass on genetic diseases and such to there off spring.


why ? He was generous enough to give you a brain to think for yourself.... thats like saying a geneoru enough parent would never stop giving me money so i can live up till beeing 60 at his place and on his expense ?


In fact a God who did such a thing could be accused of being a bit of a cruel and unjust sonofabitch.


And there are many people that do so... because its always easier to blame God than humanity ... Lets see... there are plenty of germs and viruses in this world, and they all seem to live in on way or the other in "harmony" with all other species... eventually someone gets sick, but the same happens to other animals...Scientists call it " Nature's Ballance"...AIDS in my op is a different case.


So let me get this right. People are born with birth defects to teach the "Normal" people a lesson on how to love the contents of a person not the packaging.

So now "Normal" people and Jews are Gods Chosen people and the Handicapped and afflicted are only born to test the rest of us.

With all due respect, that idea is all kinds of Flucking Rubbish.


I said thats MY view of the subject ...i didnt say "SO says the Lord"... and if you think eally deep about it... maybe you'll see its not so "rubished" after all...

Seriously ... ( assuming you are heterosexual, i really dont need to know the answer...lol...it's just and example) ... would you rather have a relationship with ...i dont know .... errr....a Victoria's Secret Angel or a woman who was born without the lower half of her body and with some facial deformities ? Nevertheless, there are peopel who can see behond that ... and those are trully blessed and gifted people... my like i said ...thats M.Op.



I'm not debunking I am questioning. Religious beliefs have an affect on all us. Many powerful figures and organisations base their judgment and of opinions on their faith and this can have a global effect on peoples lives.
If it effects me I have a right to question it's validity. It's as simple as that.


fair enough... how did the Christian Belief affected your life, if you don't mind me asking?



According to the bible Jesus was in Nazereth and Egypt at the same time


nope. But even if he was ...remember Jesus was the Son of God, and God is Omnipresent, so Jesus could be too.


and a grown man talked to a Burning Bush.
... and nowadays there are people who say they were abudcted and spoke to aliens ?? who knows ??? Just becasue i never saw it, doesn't mean it can't happen. I never saw "micro-waves" ( notthe applicane obviously) but they exhist....


The bible says lots of things and beleiving they are all true is far more ridiculous than beleiving some of it probably isn't.


But some people do believe it with all their heart, and some get soemwaht more arrogant than others, but its their choice... just like its your choice not to bleive it.... to them you probably look very ridiculous as well ?




It is true. The Jews don't accept Jesus as being the Messiah or the Son of God.
Funny really when you consider that the Jews are Gods Chosen people and he sent them his son they rejected him and yet they remain Gods chosen people.

A bit wierd that I think.


Yes it is wierd, but it was also Prophecized... When Jesus came the Jewish people were expecting a Messiah that would release them from the romans and free them, but Jesus mission was different and thats why so many rejected him. That should show you that even tho They rejectd Jesus, God still ( according to The Bible ) will come for them.



"The Palestinian state is nothing more than an excuse to blow up Jews....."

I mean well, how do you reply to such a statement


you dont have to... its is what it is


Here was me thinking the Palestinians had just as much right as the Isrealies then I remembered that the Jews are "Gods Chosen people".


answer me this if you can ... Would you give up your land, your country, your home, job, everything you have in life to let the Jewish nation move in to your place ? No.... you wouldnt... So why on Earth should the Jewish nation give up their Land for anyone else ?
You can't really be a nomad people for thousands of years, and than suddenly DEMAND a piece of land from soemone else, and expect them to give it to you ...

Otherwise like i said in my previous post, the Native Americans would be in their perfect right to start blowing off people to get their Land back. and by the way ...it WAS their Land to start with, on the opposite of the Palestinian people. The worlds Frontiers have been decided a long time ago... you cant just go and demand land from people...



Again with the greatest of respect. A quite ridiculous quote.


I have absolutely no problem with you thinking my quotes are ridiculous, you are intitled to your opinion like everyone else.



You don't know why he did it but you have no problem with it.....

Interesting.
yep... just lik i have no problem with your opinion about what i think




The truest thing you have said by far. You can't disprove the bible becuase It's a document based on faith. So what i do now is flip it around and force Christians to prove the bible.

You get a much more telling response.


Thats exactly where i wanted you to get ... The point is All religions are a FAITH issue... wheter they are Judeo-Christian or any other... and FAITH can't be neither proven or disproven... its one of those things that either you have or not.

We can sit here and argue/discuss forever...

One last question... I'm not sure, but it seems that you are an atheist ? well, if you dont't believe in the exhistance of a god, how can you blame him for the wrongs in the world ?

You probably don't pray... i didnt use to either, untill i found this "litle Piece of Heaven" ... take a look at it ...maybe you'll like it


serenity Prayer

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 07:01 PM
link   
quote:
Even amongst God's chosen people ( Jews) there is a big majority that did not accept Jesus as Savior, because they are waiting for Emmanuel, the Lion ..not Jesus the Lamb. ( you can ask them yourself, they'll tell you)


It is true. The Jews don't accept Jesus as being the Messiah or the Son of God.
Funny really when you consider that the Jews are Gods Chosen people and he sent them his son they rejected him and yet they remain Gods chosen people.

A bit wierd that I think.


like baast said...it was prophecized...plus you can read in romans you'll get your answer...this is just part of chapter 11...but it basically says that they were blinded to the fact that he was the christ so the gentiles could get in on the salvation too...before the cross gentiles had no salvation...fact is jesus called a gentile women a dog....but she said even the dogs eat crumbs from their masters table...then and there her prayer was answered.
lots of things changed after the death burial and ressurection of christ. the cross was the main plan. i really dont like all the thees and thous and ths in the king james language but oh well here it is....

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

11:8
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day.

11:9
And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

11:10
Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11:11
I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

11:12
Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

11:14
If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

11:15
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

you can read the rest in the bible...


and the big talking snake thing is all reptilian. if you peel the skin off of dick cheney you will find reptilian scales. the fallen angels are supposably retilian...thats one of the reasons why lucifer is known as the dragon...china knows the dragon has supernatural powers...reptilian bastages...

im really lazy today im dont even know if you read this.....just kinda scrapbookin it....

speaking of jesus being places....the buddist history speak of him coming to talk to the monks.....north america indians history speak of him visiting them....my eyes are burning i gotta go...


one more thing....baast...have you ever studied up on the tabernacle in the old testament. if you have to you think its a blueprint of some sort for the cross and its plans. i know all the funiture and rooms had a significance. its piece of funiture is a bleeding spot on the cross....lay the cross on top of the tabernacle and everything lines up. holiest of holies is the head...entrance door is the feet....etc. also the three rooms....represents a timeline....dont know if youve heard about it...if not ill try and be more specific tommorrow....



[edit on 24-1-2006 by Funkydung]

[edit on 24-1-2006 by Funkydung]

[edit on 24-1-2006 by Funkydung]



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 07:18 PM
link   
. . "I will not leave thee comfortless, but will come and enjoin thee in thy daily activities, thy daily service." This is the promise to every soul. If ye would make that promise thine own, then seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto thee. Let there be definite periods when ye look within self, cleansing the mind, the body, in such ways and manners and measures that seemeth that as ye would offer as thine offering unto the holy experiences that may be thine. For, he that expects nothing shall not be disappointed, but he that expects much--if he lives and uses that in hand day by day--shall be full to running over. For the love of the Father constraineth thee to keep thine counsel with those thou meetest day by day that thou mayest aid. Thus may the soul find expression. Thus may the life, the experience, that portion of life thou hast in this present experience become more and more beautiful, and the sunshine of thy love into the hearts and souls of those that are wondering, that are troubled because they find not the spirit of truth and life in their own lives, wilt come into those experiences of calling thee blessed in the name of the Father.

Edgar Cayce Reading 557-3



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 08:13 PM
link   
i can't think of any prophecies of specific events that have come true.

anyone have any examples of how edgar cayce or the bible have predicted specific events?



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 06:31 AM
link   
BaastetNoir- delighted madame



My personnal belief is that AIDS is a lb product for "social clean-up", but thats just me... and even if thats true, so called scientists still chose to do it ...


AIDS may be a man made virus and I have similar theories myself so no arguments there.



Ah... how do you know soemone else would have not screwed up?
and the "serpent" represent the entity of Satan ...not a "talking" snake....at least thast how I see it ...


Interpretation is a Dangerous thing. For instance a number of Assassins found inspiration to shoot people in The Catcher in the Rye and Russia built Communism on the back of the writings Karl Marx. People see what they want to see and in a document as vague and fantastical as the BIBLE the whole thing is open to the most wacky interpretations under the sun.

If the book is fictional then by all means interpret it any way you like.

But if you're claiming the book as fact then every word printed is fact and not open to any debate.



can't expect to have sex with everyone that crosses your mind, not knowing who or what on Earth they have been doing before, or share needles with 100 people without destroying your own body... Is it God's fault that people bury themsleves with this kind of lack of resposibility ? no.


Is it wrong to have sex with everyone that crosses your mind?
If you're single then and use protection then you can have sex with Platoons and ballet schools if you so wish, it's nobody's business but your own.
Do you think life is simply a prelude to heavenly reward Baastetnoir?
If that's the case your missing out on a whole lot fun and experience.



God created the Universe, but he didnt say " now Go Be dumb, stupid and careless and than blame it on me"... there must be a reason why the Bible recomends marital sex ONLY -- and I'm not beeing a puritane here, i did my share of "hangin'out ", but i was smart enough to be carefull... and i thank God for giving me a brain to think. I take responsibility for the Things that happen to be ...bad or Good...I do blame God... I may thank God for the help, but i wont blame him for my mistakes. We were given free -will and that comes with a WORLD of Responsibility.


You thank him for his help but don't blame him for his mistakes.
Interesting.
Next time you're angry at someone try blaming Allah and next time something goes right thank Buddah, Shiva or Odin...who knows they may give you the same result.

Let me put a senario forward.

A Protestant and a Catholic are in a cage. There is no escape from this cage and they will both eventually die but the Catholic has read the Bible and interpreted that in order to gain reward in Heaven he must kill the Protestant and the Protestant has read the Bible and interpreted that in order to gain reward in Heaven he must kill the Catholic.

My question to you is, which one of those people will go to heaven?




The sad thing about all this is that the poor children are born with this deadky desease because their parents were senseless... and than as always are those who get hit without doing anything wrong, like ER doctors, Wives that get it from adulterous husbands and vice-versa...and so on and on... whos fault is it ? God ? no... its the adulterous fault... its the drug addicts fault who contaminated him/herself and than ends up comtaminating a doctor


People take drugs for all kinds of reasons. They may be bought up the 11th of twelve kids in a Brazilian Shanty town, Their parents might have been burnt alive in front of them when they were six or their dreams of being a professional footballer were shattered when they lost their legs in a car crash.

Each story has to be judged seperately and you can't demonise someone simply because they are "On drugs"

As for the disease spreading Factor. Africa was changed by the Missionaries and the Pope still decress that contraception is against Gods Law.
So in a time of Global pain, death and misery God has decreed via his representative on earth that his poorest and most in need creations continue to die and pass on disease to their offspring all for the sake of a sheath of rubber.

That tells you what i think about God in a nutshell because even if he does exist, he obviously has no flucking clue what he's doing.




quote: So let me get this right. People are born with birth defects to teach the "Normal" people a lesson on how to love the contents of a person not the packaging.

I said thats MY view of the subject ...i didnt say "SO says the Lord"... and if you think eally deep about it... maybe you'll see its not so "rubished" after all...

Seriously ... ( assuming you are heterosexual, i really dont need to know the answer...lol...it's just and example) ... would you rather have a relationship with ...i dont know .... errr....a Victoria's Secret Angel or a woman who was born without the lower half of her body and with some facial deformities


That's a twisted idea that people born with disabilities to make us learn compassion. People are born with disabilities for 1001 reasons and i suggest you revise your opinion before you meet a parent or friend of a disabled person.

Of course the choice I'd go for the Victoria's Secret Angel everytime (and have Monica Belluci on the weekends) but thats because full bodied women turn me on , some people get turned on by Paraplegics, Midgets and even...gasp...children?

Would you say that someone who finds paraplegics attractive is on the same moral level as a peodophile?

I sincerely hope not.



fair enough... how did the Christian Belief affected your life, if you don't mind me asking?


I was brought up Methodist, attended Sunday school every week for 8 years , gave cans to Grandmas at harvest festivals and won the National Bible reading Competiton 3 years running.

I've never had a bad experience with the church and many things I learnt there have held me in good stead but I realised very early on that there was something fishy about the whole christianity business so I read , researched and came to the unstartling conclusion that much of what I'd been taught wasn't really Kosher.

The way i see it to beleive that none of the Bible is true is naive but to beleive all of it is true is god damn ridiculous.



nope. But even if he was ...remember Jesus was the Son of God, and God is Omnipresent, so Jesus could be too.


Mt.2:14

"When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt."

Whilst Luke say's:

Lk.2:39
"And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth."

Two different versions of the same event in the same bible.

There are many such errors and to sugegst that he was in both places at the same time....well...




Yes it is wierd, but it was also Prophecized... When Jesus came the Jewish people were expecting a Messiah that would release them from the romans and free them, but Jesus mission was different and thats why so many rejected him.


I might be wrong and haven't got the time to check but wasn't the Messiah supposed to free the Jewish race from the yoke of their oppressors?




answer me this if you can ... Would you give up your land, your country, your home, job, everything you have in life to let the Jewish nation move in to your place ? No.... you wouldnt... So why on Earth should the Jewish nation give up their Land for anyone else ?
You can't really be a nomad people for thousands of years, and than suddenly DEMAND a piece of land from soemone else, and expect them to give it to you ...


Well..because technically it's not Jewish land. The Romans once occupied most of europe so does that mean that 200 years later Italy can claim that France is rightfuly theirs?

The Jewish State was created after WW2, the Palestinians were moved out to the Gaza strip and Jerusalem reclaimed.

And you are dead right. You can't be a Nomad people for thousands of years then suddenly DEMAND a piece of land from someone else.

Which is exactly what the Jews did.


As for the rest, I'm not an atheist.

I neither deny the existance of God or celebrate it. I beleive in peoples ability to help themselves and others not the Doctrine of a corrupt religion whose history is based on death, suffering, theft, lies, corruption and genocide.

Maybe Jesus did exist but his life and history has been warped and distorted to such a degree that the real truth about the man may be lost to us forever.

Then again maybe It's all a fabrication, a tool of social control to keep the peasents quiet and sedated by promsing them reward in the afterlife.

Nobody knows for sure and all we can do is keep on searching.








[edit on 25-1-2006 by StJude]

[edit on 25-1-2006 by StJude]



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 06:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by StJude

Mt.2:14

"When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt."

Whilst Luke say's:

Lk.2:39
"And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth."

Two different versions of the same event in the same bible.

There are many such errors and to sugegst that he was in both places at the same time....well...




You left out some verses in Matthew that explain this.

Matthew 2:11
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

2:12
And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

2:13
And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

2:14
When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

verse 12 tells us that they went to their own country(Galilee) also, just like Luke's. Then they went into Egypt.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 11:13 AM
link   
LCKob:

I neither deny the existance of God or celebrate it. I believe in peoples ability to help themselves and others not the Doctrine of a corrupt religion whose history is based on death, suffering, theft, lies, corruption and genocide.

Maybe Jesus did exist but his life and history has been warped and distorted to such a degree that the real truth about the man may be lost to us forever.

Then again maybe It's all a fabrication, a tool of social control to keep the peasents quiet and sedated by promsing them reward in the afterlife.

Nobody knows for sure and all we can do is keep on searching.



One day a group of friends were bored and musing the oddest things ... someone posed the question: "What if anything would you put on your tombstone" ... my reply was something like "I am going to be cremated" (I still like the idea of Cremation though haha personal bias) ... but as to the intent of the question ... I had no real answer back then ... after years of pondering such ... my present feeling goes something like:

"Seek the truth and all else can be forgiven"... or perhaps simply "Seek the Truth"

LCKob



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 03:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by StJude
BaastetNoir- delighted madame[/quote

Hello again




But if you're claiming the book as fact then every word printed is fact and not open to any debate.


I can not disprove it ... the Bible manetions many odd things... but just becasue they are odd to me, doenst mean they couldn't have happened to other people.



Is it wrong to have sex with everyone that crosses your mind?
If you're single then and use protection then you can have sex with Platoons and ballet schools if you so wish, it's nobody's business but your own.
Do you think life is simply a prelude to heavenly reward Baastetnoir?
If that's the case your missing out on a whole lot fun and experience.


I think my post may have come out as a litle to prude... waht i meant was simply, that if you or anyone else decide to go out and take as many sexual risk as they want, they can't or at least shouldn't turn around and blame God for the un-wanted results...wheater they are deseases or un-wanted pregancies... God does not pulls our pants down... or up for that metter.

As to Heaven... hmmm... Heaven is a nice thought ... wheather i'll ever get there or not... who knows.
and i don't make life a qust for Hollyness and Worthiness of Heaven... but i do wonder ...if Heaven really exhists and is that amazing, is having "fun" (whatever fun may mean to everyone who reads this ) on Earth really worth loosing your "ticket" ?

On the other end....what if Heaven does not exhsit... and than after I die, I'll just sit there in my coffin, mumbling and growning about all the fun i could have have and didn't...

I guess thats one of those things that are different to everyone...a question of faith and choice.



Next time you're angry at someone try blaming Allah and next time something goes right thank Buddah, Shiva or Odin...who knows they may give you the same result.


When i'm mad at someone i make that person know it, i dont blame God for something I or someone else has donne wrong...,We all have free-will, and that comes with tons of resposibility.

Has to thanking any other diety... no need for that...i dont change winnings teams. As for Buddah, he was a man... in fact I dont think he would be too happy about how he is worshipped... but i could be wrong.

quote]Let me put a senario forward.

A Protestant and a Catholic are in a cage. There is no escape from this cage and they will both eventually die but the Catholic has read the Bible and interpreted that in order to gain reward in Heaven he must kill the Protestant and the Protestant has read the Bible and interpreted that in order to gain reward in Heaven he must kill the Catholic.

My question to you is, which one of those people will go to heaven?


I can't say... i would have to read what they read and see if what it said.
They could be both wrong in their interpretation. I personally would not follow anyone who told me I have to kill others. But like i said, I would have to read what they read to come to an answer.




People take drugs for all kinds of reasons. They may be bought up the 11th of twelve kids in a Brazilian Shanty town, Their parents might have been burnt alive in front of them when they were six or their dreams of being a professional footballer were shattered when they lost their legs in a car crash.

Each story has to be judged seperately and you can't demonise someone simply because they are "On drugs"


I dont think I was demonizing anyone or at least if I did I wasn't trying to do so, i simply said taking drugs as its consequences (believ me ...i know t first hand)... and there are people in this world with absolutly sad and horrible life stories that did not turn to drugs or crime. I took drugs for "fun" and had a perfectly normal childhood with a caring mom and a cranky dad...lol


As for the disease spreading Factor. Africa was changed by the Missionaries and the Pope still decress that contraception is against Gods Law.


St Jude... believe me...you dont want me to start on both the Catholic and Protestant Churches and the Vatican and their dispicable, disgusting antics for "Gospel spreading"... that could start an ATS vicious revolution....
But also... i seriously doubt that before the Catholics got to Africa they were using any kind of contraception... how else do you think there were so many people to be ignorantly sold as slaves?

Also, unfortunetly nowadays, in Africa, it is a common folk belief that if a man with HIV as sex with a virgin he will be healed... and it seems to be a folk belief not even the doctors can't get ridd of.


So in a time of Global pain, death and misery God has decreed via his representative on earth that his poorest and most in need creations continue to die and pass on disease to their offspring all for the sake of a sheath of rubber.


But who said the Catholic Church or protestant by that metter represents God ? Thats what they say... that don't mean its true. If they represented God they would have donne something about the Holocaust... and I dont mean receiveing the gold taken out of Jewsih and Polish families...including the one from teeth fillings.


That tells you what i think about God in a nutshell because even if he does exist, he obviously has no flucking clue what he's doing.


So you're a prent... you raise your kid the best you can... teach him as much as you ...give him everything you could ever give, told him whats wrong or right... and than he turns around and murders someone while he was having fun... Is that your fault ?





That's a twisted idea that people born with disabilities to make us learn compassion. People are born with disabilities for 1001 reasons and i suggest you revise your opinion before you meet a parent or friend of a disabled person.


I only knew 2 people that had disabled children , both with Dawn Syndrom... and it was actually becasue of what they said that this idea came to me.



Would you say that someone who finds paraplegics attractive is on the same moral level as a peodophile?


Of course not.,... what exactly did i Type that made think that ???

A child has nothing to do with waht I was trying to say... A child is a child ... wheter its a disabled one or not .

How did you get from disabled children to paralegicas and pedophiles ?



fair enough... how did the Christian Belief affected your life, if you don't mind me asking?




The way i see it to beleive that none of the Bible is true is naive but to beleive all of it is true is god damn ridiculous.



Well... its because some poepl pick and choose what to bleiev in from the Bibel or not that the Once Saved Always Save "snake oil" came up... no where in the Bible does it say Once Saved Always Saved... but peopel picked and choose...and thats one of the "delights" that came out.



nope. But even if he was ...remember Jesus was the Son of God, and God is Omnipresent, so Jesus could be too.



Mt.2:14

"When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt."

Whilst Luke say's:

Lk.2:39
"And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth."

Two different versions of the same event in the same bible.

There are many such errors and to sugegst that he was in both places at the same time....well...


well...taking that they had to walk pretty far distances... i would think that waht seems to be at the same time to us ( because we do have plains and can get anywhere in the world in the same day), may very well have a couple of months in between...?




I might be wrong and haven't got the time to check but wasn't the Messiah supposed to free the Jewish race from the yoke of their oppressors?


Didnt they get different rules in between ?





Well..because technically it's not Jewish land. The Romans once occupied most of europe so does that mean that 200 years later Italy can claim that France is rightfuly theirs?


It is and was Jewish land... thats why when the Romans got there they kicked out the Jews not the Palestinians. It is the Jews who have been constantly kicked out of their land for thoussand s of years... and its ahppenng again... but hey .., like i said before ...its an excuse to kill Jews ... just like Hitler use the " economy" and "race purifying" excuses to kill Jews.

Listen to the news of today... Have you noticed that both Iran and Palestin claim that there will only be Peace when there are no more Jews ? Doesnt that show you theres something fishy ?


The Jewish State was created after WW2, the Palestinians were moved out to the Gaza strip and Jerusalem reclaimed.


That was also Prophecized, that Israel would be rebuilt as a Nation.


And you are dead right. You can't be a Nomad people for thousands of years then suddenly DEMAND a piece of land from someone else.

Which is exactly what the Jews did.


If the Jews stole the land from Palestinians, how come Rome invaed Israle and not Palestine... ?




Maybe Jesus did exist but his life and history has been warped and distorted to such a degree that the real truth about the man may be lost to us forever.


How would you know if you didnt live with Jesus...?


Then again maybe It's all a fabrication, a tool of social control to keep the peasents quiet and sedated by promsing them reward in the afterlife.


Well that didnt work to good did it ? I dont see this world "sedaded" in order to achiev afterlife rewards... if anything some blow themselves up in order to get those rewards. thats far from beeing sedated.


Nobody knows for sure and all we can do is keep on searchin.


Agreed.


So i guess after all this it is right for me to assume that you don't believe Hurricane Katrina was an Act of God ?



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 06:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by LCKob
LCKob:

I neither deny the existance of God or celebrate it. Maybe Jesus did exist but his life and history has been warped and distorted to such a degree that the real truth about the man may be lost to us forever.

Then again maybe It's all a fabrication, a tool of social control to keep the peasents quiet and sedated by promsing them reward in the afterlife.



The other possibility is the Bible has it right. Jesus is who He said He was, and no one comes to the Father but through Him.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join