Originally posted by ValhallYou're showing a bit of ignorance you forgot to deny. The Southern Baptist Convention has nothing to do
with the Southern Baptist Churches. The "Southern Baptist religion" does not have a central organization. Every single southern baptist church is
autonomous.
First let me tell you what the deny ignorance has come to symbolize when I read many posts in here, and that is to deny it
exists,. Consequently if I forgot to deny ignorance’s existence, then I am in fine shape. What you are telling the audience then is that the
Southern Baptist Umbrella can be bought and paid ofr? Either that or the Southern Baptists forgot to copyright their corporate name, and you surely
would not be trying to get that past me, would you? Why yes you would, so let me take you on an excursion of the very foundation you think you
know…
It was such a call that caused J.B. Rounds and W.D. Moorer to see the desire God had for the trails and trees and to pursue that call to fruition.
Rounds and Moorer first viewed the Falls Creek property in a photograph on a barber shop wall in Davis, Oklahoma. They were immediately attracted to
the 160 acre parcel and agreed it was the place for the annual Summer meetings of the
Baptist Young People's Union.
Programming, facilities, philosophies and personnel have regularly expanded and refocused to meet the ever changing needs of the
Baptist family
and those to whom they minister. From a Summer encampment for the B.Y.P.U. in 1917, Falls Creek has grown to become a year round conference center
addressing children, church musicians, single adults, college students, men's and women's ministries, church volunteers…..the list and the call
grows with each new year. In 1917, after that first affirming Summer,
Baptist leaders prophesied that Falls Creek would form the foundation of
"…a great denominational university of methods…" representing "…every line of denominational interest…" With each year Falls Creek
stretches and adapts to fulfill that vision.Falls Creek and Baptist ownership established. Why would you open these doors for me to prove that
one of the most revered and alarmist conspirators on this site does not know what her own religious roots are?
Unless there is more than one Southern Baptist Church, then I have wrongly accused Southern Baptists as belonging to one congregation. So the next
question then is: what are the Southern Baptists?
According to the official description of The Southern Baptist convention;
www.sbc.net... You become a Southern
Baptist by uniting with a Southern Baptist church
So then we have this:
From the Baptist General convention of Oklahoma:
The North American Mission Board (NAMB) of the Southern Baptist Convention coordinates disaster relief efforts of the state convention disaster relief
teams. NAMB works in conjunction with FEMA, the Salvation Army and the American Red Cross to best utilize volunteers with the least chaos and
confusion. Southern Baptist Disaster Relief teams represent the second largest trained disaster relief volunteers organization in the United States.
It is estimated that Southern Baptist Disaster Relief teams prepare 80% of the hot meals distributed by the American Red Cross.
www.bgco.org...{57F338A6-2B68-47B7-9AD0-3583FE4931D5}&sc=-1&ni=515&fr=news
Need I say more? Why yes I do, just because you incite me to.
“Oklahoma Southern Baptist churches are sending volunteers to welcome survivors
to Falls Creek, Jordan explained… www.bgco.org...{57F338A6-2B68-47B7-9AD0-3583FE4931D5}&sc=-1&ni=518&fr=news
But let us take me at
face value since you are the Baptist:
YOU- I'm extremely depressed to report that things seem to only be getting sadder concerning the people
so devastatingly affected by Katrina last week. Two car loads of us headed over to Falls Creek, a youth camp for Southern Baptist churches in Oklahoma
that agreed to have its facilities used to house Louisiana refugees….
This past week the Southern Baptist association of Oklahoma offered the facility as a place to house refugees from the Katrina
disaster…
Well, decide where you want to go now with this obfuscation of yours, either you lied on that post of uyours or you lie now, I
really don’t care which of the two options you choose, they both come up with the same verdict.
Having now covered my position, I am sure you do not mind if I dismiss the rest of your strawman on Southern Baptists. Now I really don’t care how
many ways from sundown you are going to try and claim singular ownership of each of those buildings or the property they sit on, I can assure you that
as a communal project, they are governed by assembly as you can well see, and all of the sites are covered by policies in one name. That is the way
insurance works dear Valhall. Now if you wish to prove otherwise, then put up, or simply, shut up!
If you're going to try to act like a friggin smart-arse...at least do the research before you attempt it. WE HAVE NO GOVERNING
BODY.
I prefer you would not digress. I am not just trying to act like a smart ass, I am smart. Your resorting to this type of rhetoric
does nothing to substantiate your very tenuous position, does it? Nor in fact does it adequately cover your attempt at diversion. Since you have taken
on this tangent, I trust that you have found yourself to be in a most precarious position relative to rebutting my rebuttal. Should I presume now that
I am I to expect more of this deflection of yours?
And it behooves you before you write your tirade and offensive to understand exactly how your administrative members arranged this deal, does
it not? Your report is a blatant one-sided representation of what you want the facts as seen by you to represent, and it is inextricably evident that
you afforded no consideration to the ability of the leaders of your church when it comes to negotiating temporary appropriation of land, in that they
would negotiate an agreement which turns Church holdings into one used for oppression. Either they were novices or incompetents as one discerns when
wading through your basketry of words.
WRONG AGAIN! I'll start keeping count now. THAT'S TWO! This has just been covered above in a couple of different ways. And no my report
was not a "blatant one-sided representation". It was an accounting of statements made, and things seen.
Now now, don’t just tell me I am
wrong again, make your case, at least once, and my eyesight is just fine thank you, I do not need caps to read simplistic words. So then, I must
backup here, you have yet to prove me wrong about one issue, much less 1.5, and 2 is a gold medal you can only hope for. Your report was nothing but a
one-sided pre-disposed fabrication of that which you thought you would write about to incite anger at an agency which as I have pointed out would have
to be in cahoots with your church.
Never once, Valhall, did I see you question the authoritative decision of the SBC or even those with whom you spoke.
I thought I told you in response to your previous post that I'm all for casting blame on the SBC if they entered into an agreement that they
knew going into would prevent the free movement of these people. NO - that does not cast blame on my church, the members, or me. And you're sure
showing your salt now.
Maybe you did, I have not read all of your posts, however, before you sit and write such inflammatory nonsense,
it behooves you to be sure of your position and to be sure that your eagerness to raise alarmist issues are in fact valid. You did no such thing.
I read yours, and as stated, to page 1. Your post alone should be sufficient to understand that you more than inferred that this camp was being
run under nefarious conditions. But the crux of the issue is deeper than that which you concede, Valhall. The point being that if members of one camp
can leave, your dissertation is incomplete as regard research since according to you, you were told that you do not understand the nature of the
individuals slated to be housed at Falls creek. As much as your “host” endeavoured to explain it to you in a fashion only s/he could, it stands to
reason that you do not in fact know whether these individuals are those whose stated identities have not or cannot be identified. This world is not
without its criminals, neither is the smallest tract of land, and for all you know, these folks may very well be lawbreakers who roamed the streets of
new Orleans but look to worm their way to a new life as a result of this disaster.
I have nothing to respond to toward the above drivel. But I decided to quote it so you can't ever deny saying such nonsensical
crap.
Of course you don’t! That is because I am right and you know it.
Then you ramble incoherently--how does one turn a screen over? And why are you always so childish when cornered?
Indeed! How many volunteers were required, Valhall? How many were accepted? How many were still en route from across the US expanse only to get
to Falls Creek and learn that the quota had been filled? These reports only corroborate what you were told, don’t they? They did not need you, nor
your food, nor your clothes.
More than were let in. Because on Tuesday there were still cabins that were not prepared - didn't even have made beds.
Really
now? Did you see the roster as to when those beds were supposed to be made? Are you calling the poster which I cited and the very Southern Baptist
organization overseeing the volunteers liars, when they said that volunteers were more than sufficient and excess were turned away? Tell me you would
not really be so gung ho to whiz over top your church’s dormitory and then accuse them of lying. Why I would have to ask why on earth you are a
member of their church.
You mean this good Southern Baptist volunteer fabricated his/her account, or did they like you, run into some “host” who offered his own
take? Another quote captured to show how much you'll twist my words. I didn't say that person fabricated anything. I said the reports
she/he had been given were WRONG. The cabins were not all prepared, not even on Tuesday.
I am not twisting anything of yours dear, you
are doing a very job of that all by yourself. But I desire more than just you telling me s/he was wrong, I want proof! Where is it?
You mean while I was there? That would be pretty hard to speak to people who couldn't get in while I was in, now wouldn't it? You mean
afterward? Yes. Also, if you would like me to do your research for you, I can pull up the news articles that confirm the volunteers turned
away. Just u2u.
Re-read my post, and try and understand it this time. And the very fact that you can pull up reports of others being turned
away goes to show just how irreconcilable is your detention camp position. These rejected volunteers goes to show that the church issued a call and
its members answered it, and once the 400/500 was achieved, the rest was turned away. Now you either believe that these hosts of yours were not church
volunteers or were volunteers who were quite willing in the name of their humble faith to accept a position in a detention camp. I have stated this
already.
I wasn't rejected! WTF are you talking about?
Can the expletives, you know quite well that for the lesser connected in here such
language is met with punishment. Besides it makes you look frazzled. And re-read my statement relative to this too, you are losing focus and I hate to
repeat myself.
I personally got everything delivered to some cabin while I was there, with the exception of my clothes. Which are now going to Mississippi.
I made beds. I fixed buckets. And I delivered all my goods.
And yes, I stated that the "hosts" were Oklahomans selected from around the state. And yes, Springer verified what was told to me in his subsequent
phone call the next morning to the preacher. And what are you insinuating that I need to drag local southern baptists off the street and flop them in
front of my computer and demand they tell what they know?
I am not insinuating anything, I am however telling you that you are an alarmist,
that you cried wolf, that you wrote a story that is corroborated nowhere else, and that said story is in fact so full of holes it could sink the Queen
Mary II.
DON'T THINK SO! My son has come on and verified my account. He was right there with me when the statements were made.
Good for your
son, but seeing police and medical personnel and listening to some unnamed volunteer tell you how it is does not equate to what you, your son,
Springer, or your car has interpreted.
I haven't seen any southern baptists on here saying they were told something totally different.
Point me to the posts by Southern
Baptists who are not family members who corroborate your story.
*crickets*
I prefer ladybugs.
Agreed. Me too. That's the goal of us all. 
