Rebuttal to "I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp

I personally dont see a "hunt" for conspiracy...
I see some very good inquiry into a possible civil rights breach...
we must all be vigiliant to prevent abuse of these poor souls... but also understanding that this is a huge project, and the officials don't want to lose control at any level...

I also see a very honorable, although net-niave official who wants to set the record straight... and from what we have seen, it is somewhere in the gray middle...
While there seems to be legitimate reason for concern... the reasons for the actions seem not to be at the conspiratorial end of the bell curve, but rather in a mish mash of government standard response, and a well intentioned official who tried to let us in on the meaning of some of that standard response...

In other words... he also understood the reason for concern, but was trying to assure that the reason for concern wasn't as bad as we were making it to be.
Let us not forget... he doesn't know it all either... he is just trying to point out that there is no "devious angle" on the oklahoma officials part... just following instructions...

I think there is a conspiracy here... but it has more to do with the delayed response... on all top officials parts...

Well, if the supposed threatening phone calls did occur, the government's response would be to put his tail between his legs and run away?? This does not look good for our country if the slightest threat can make our government officials cower away.

Since it's supposed to be against the law to make death threats, wouldn't the appropriate response be to carry on as usual while tracking down the one making the threats for prosecution at the same time?

It's interesting how word of these 'threats' have altered the course of this thread and left only a few still interested in having the important questions answered.

Originally posted by Jessicamsa
Well, if the supposed threatening phone calls did occur, the government's response would be to put his tail between his legs and run away?? This does not look good for our country if the slightest threat can make our government officials cower away.

Since it's supposed to be against the law to make death threats, wouldn't the appropriate response be to carry on as usual while tracking down the one making the threats for prosecution at the same time?

It's interesting how word of these 'threats' have altered the course of this thread and left only a few still interested in having the important questions answered.

Even after Agentsmith stated that he verified Ed's identity I accepted that and still said that this was all too coincidental and I stand by that statement. Look at what the outcome of this thread has become, a dissertation of the Southern Baptist religion and arguements over the validity of Val's initial post. Looks like the sowing of seeds of dissent and confusion to me. Isn't that one of the definitions of a disinformation campaign? Back off, cool down and re-read this from the start objectively.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Its called political patronage, bush isn't immune from going along with it. He appointed them, he's the cheif executive, and they are failures and hacks. He screwed up, and the screw up rests on him. Its not his fault that the peopel of Louisiania and New Orleans in particular were silly enough to let the levees that protected their city from the gulf of mexico's waters, which they were under be substandard

Well, that is certainly up for debate:

Our fact-checking confirms that Bush indeed cut funding for projects specifically designed to strengthen levees. Indeed, local officials had been complaining about that for years.

www.factcheck.org...

[edit on 14-9-2005 by 27jd]

One thing that should be considered is that I believe Ed was making comment off his own back, not through an official capacity as such.
He probably had enough problems explaining his actions without also the problem of countless phone calls being made.

And there can be no doubt that there were phone calls, if you don;t believe that - just post an interesting post on a busy board (not on ATS though as we don't like hoaxes) with a prepay number you can throw away andd see how mnay calls you get.
Then think about these circumstances and the much larger exposure it had than normal.

Originally posted by Shuffleon
IF someone were going to enter an area of operations in which he REALLY wanted to leave an escape mechanism in place so that he could conveniently "self-extract" should it become expeditious for him to book on out at the drop of a hat, then that phone number "naively" placed into the post would be an EXCELLENT "out".

This begs the issue of just HOW "naive" a world class "spook" can possibly be. Personally I do NOT buy the idea that someone with his documented history, skills, and intelligence, could be THAT naive and "innocent of the ways of the 'net", and leave his number without realizing the potential for abuse.

Given the desirability of doing everything possible to AVOID driving the guy away, I am very skeptical of the alleged "death threats" being anything other than an excuse for bailing when it got too hot.

This is all conjecture and opinion ONLY, and I welcome alternative possible explanations that match the known facts.

I agree 100%. This guy can no longer respond to questions because he fears for his life? He knows full well that not answering questions isn't going to take back that the number is out there. What a joke! You can find a headhunter in the remote jungles of South America and it's almost guaranteed he'll know that you don't just post your phone number on the internet. Whether there is some sort of conspiracy or not, the death threat excuse is BS. Why would somebody be so angry that he decided to tell his side of the story, that they would threaten to kill him, or wish to be profane? Generally it takes a bit more of an emotionally charged issue to get that kind of response from people, this was merely a discussion about the SOP of a FEMA facility, not something like gay rights or abortion. How can anybody believe this? Ed NEVER intended to join our community, so people can stop arguing about who caused him to run and hide. This was a one post equivalent of a press conference spin job, and there will be no further questions at this time. I guess this marine/intelligence officer/WMD specialist/disaster manager, etc., now fears his life is in danger.

IMO Mr. Kostiuk's initial posting, as Agent Smith and others have stated similar feelings [if I may], was more so from a personal standpoint supported by "official" protocol/policies/information.

I personally feel his inclusion of contact information, as many have regarded as naive, was his way of saying, "I'm here to answer your questions.”

Unfortunately, due to the vast exposure this thread had received by that time and being that it had grown well beyond the confines of ATS, there were those who exploited this and felt the need to make the supposed calls. The only reason I say supposed, is that there is no way we can truly ascertain the validity of these claims. Personally, I believe him.

By means of e-correspondence he came across as "for real,” and I'm not very easily convinced mind you.

I feel that so many seemed too caught up in the so-called "sanitation" of his online profile. Maybe, maybe not?!

My searches returned a man that, for the most part, comes across as genuine. His background supports his current position to the "T".

My background/training includes military service, construction services, airline services, public relations, etc., none of which are needed nor are used in my current employ.

If I were to post my proverbial resume, it may appear, to many, as "questionable/odd" in regards to what I do now.

Jack of many, Master of some. :O)

I feel the saddest aspect of the whole Mr. Ed Kostiuk situation is that he came, registered, posted in an honest fashion, and based upon the following he obviouslydecided it just wasn't worth it.

Thank you and God bless you and your family. I wanted to open a dialogue with the good folks on the web site, however after receiving a number calls with "death threats" and "what a jerk profanity remarks" I abandoned the idea. Thanks for responding to me off list and God Bless and take care.

My personal thoughts are had he been contacted with civil inquiries, by either phone or email, we may have received more answers to the questions posed.

For now, it seems as the Falls Creek Church Camp/facility is on standby, and not currently needed to receive those displaced by Katrina.

This action virtually eliminates any self-imposed obligation by Mr. Kostiuk to respond to our inquiries.

What a shame . . .

ValHall,

I, in no way, am attempting to discredit your initial post, nor your follow-up responses. I feel you have presented your case [so to speak] accurately based upon your experience that day, and have stood proudly, honorably behind your story.


[edit on 9/14/2005 by 12m8keall2c]

Val.
I can't say enough for you and your families heart, intentions and love.
I can complain till the cows come home, and even Jesus himself, whipped those that deserved it... If I could, i'd have Bush and his administration, in front of the entire world, and force them... to live this way.
you , they, can call this assistance.
What the hell was Krakow?
In absence of leadership.... the people will follow whatever you give them... and however they sell it.
This is appauling..
I've been sick since your original post.
I can't seem to do enough. Speak of it enough...
Keep myself, from dragging Bush and his Admin, out into the yard, and whipping them like the dogs they are.
Fema had every ability, as did our government,,, to accept donations.. from CARNIVAL cruises... as my friend is head of the board there, I've contacted Air France... they are more than willing to fly anyone with family, here to france for free, water, cell phones, walkie talkies, food, steak, milk all of it... donated... only ........... denied.
why?
the same reason that Bush and his bastards put FEMA into the Homeland Security. For the money... For the control.
Who gives money to the administration?
Cingulair, Nextel, ABC, CBS, any, and I mean any, leader of any organization is and has always been... contributors to "big money". And that is what leads this country. Money.
Blacks... They know, we know... everyone with any sense... knows that whites would not be treated this way. true.. sad... but true.
When is the last time you set a fire cooking in your kitchen?
When have you fought your neighbor for food?
When my grandfather was a boy, he took his shotgun and killed rabbits for food, that he sold to the poor. When the poor, came into the simplest of money... he'd go to sell them their usual rabbit... and be told "we don't eat rabbits here" and southern saying, that lives to this day.
Expecting those victims, who are doing there best,,, cannot be treated with "rabbits",
there is such a thing... as leadership...
A true leader would collect it all.
Large dinners could be served, combining what is there, and making sure all received.. even if only as an appertife.
Just being treated human.... with love... comapassion... and a time to feel as there is nothing to worry about... tho clearly there is.
Just a moment for those... to feel what being adored,, truly feels like.
Please... you may riot... set your place on fire...
These are not Neandrathals... We are not second generation upright.
If this is not racist... I don't know what is.
CNN, seems only to report of the "whites" gettting home,, and reading names of those missing.
Blacks...?
Well who really cares right?
I mean, they don't make enough to contribute in taxes... The freeway from Shreveport to NewOrleans, has never been fixed,... not in over twenty years.
That land... is powerfulll. only not for our government,,, as they want the land, the oil and the ports.
Tho Bush had a hand in 9/11, and you can look it up,,, several well know past administration members who have since left in order to prevent Bush's stolen election...., he didn't in this... but like everything else... he ignored it... as he couldn't handle a crisis, if his own nose blew off.
This is not a bright man, he stole the election, as his puppets,,, or puppeteers, keep him on the track they need him on... One to create more power, more money, and less issues.... "the poor and poverty stricken".

Those who can't believe, and claim.. "we should focus on the fixing.. not place blame" are the same ones. that tho help is necessary, and wonderful.... who turn their heads at everything else... If it disrupts their way of life... they don't want to know....
Much like a woman who's husband cheats... they have the proof, they cry, they complain... but they never bother to prove... and or just leave. It's easier to believe the fairy tale...
Well this is no fairytale...
This is a nightmare.... And most... dont have to live it... so to them... I guess, something is better than nothing... After all, these people could be dead... they should just be lucky to get any help at all.
To those who think like this... I pray for you...
For GOD ISSSSSS watching....
It isn't about what you do IN THIS LIFE... Is about forever....
Who are you.?
What kind of person are you?
If you saw a car on the side of the road... in need of assistance... would you rather drive on... decide that would have been dangerous???? or pulled over and one what you could.
When you live for God... for good... for love.... you will receive... ten fold.
Val, I'm sorry, so sorry you had to witness this...
But I also know... you and your family are brave... loving and strong... And the jewels in your crown will be many.
Keep it up....
My anger at those who fight these truths...I try so desperately to quell, but once and I while.... DAMN!
God Bless You.
God Bless those who deserve so much better.
Five star dinners, warm baths, room service... wonderful beds, money... and whatever their hearts desire...I pray they dont give up... as if they dont' they will surely receive it.
Your Word Is YOUR WaND....And those with Faith... Need never worry.
Those who dont understand....
I will simply pray for.
God Bless you Val...
May your life be surrounded by love and mercy.
Melissa Morgan

It is strange to see an "official" visit a conspiracy site. I presume since the media broadcast this, that someone had to give the "official explanation".

The real intent of the "guest" site may have originally been one of compasion. It may still be, but when you give certain people authority, they simply magnifiy their importance in a situation. It seems clear there were people that the original author met that had this disposition.

I really like how "they" will tell the people what they can eat. A diet of nutrition designed by some nutritionist, that really eats at Burger King like the rest of America, not what they prescribe.

Hopefully in the days that follow the people that had the devistation cast upon them will be able to tell their story of this Camp.

This thread has gone way off the beaten path. Ed, Thank you for responding to val's first hand (personal experience) of what she witnessed and entertained us with her expereince in writeing. Everyone persieve things differently. Depends on the mindset in my opinion and thats not a bash val I love reading your posts, your a huge asset to ATS. To each his own.. I just hope Ed can read thru this mud and answer a large number of questions raised.

P.S. somewhereinbetween. thank you for your criticism albeit very face to face and thinking maybe a chip on the shoulder I thank you for answering a few questions raised by val. I enjoy this site for this very reason >

[edit on 14-9-2005 by madmangunradio]

Originally posted by Valhall. Somewhere has outright stated I do believe on this thread but most definitely in a u2u to me that their intention - the goal of all this twisting and false accusations against me - is for me to recant my story.

Why are you lying?

It is important that the audience first understand that you contacted me via U2U, that you lashed out by citing me for excessive quotes, then later came back with a threat that if I did not watch it you would warn me again. included in which was was your use of foul language telling me what I should do sexually.

But as that this particular lie about what you claim is my intention, this was your comment:"I have agreed with you that if the SBC knew that the occupants of the camp would have their civil rights restricted and then the SBC entered into the lease agreement with FEMA/OEMA/OHP knowing that - they are WRONG. Further, they are even more wrong if they knew this and didn't convey the situation to the individual churches when they approached them to make their cabins available."

and this was my comment back;

"Then you need to recant your initial alarmist tale and explain that YOU did jump the gun relative to placing the blame squarely on FEMA's back, and apologize to the audience for not having thought same through.'

There is no mention of my intention and or goal in there Valhall, so why are you now purposefully misleading the readers?

So please by all means, support this further accusation, I am most curious to see what words I supposedly used that stated my desire that you say, and I re-quote you; "no it really didn't happen."

Period. This member has stated outright that their desire is for me to say "No it really didn't happen. I made it all up...and/or I told a hyperbolic tale to... (and this is the almost verbatim accusations somewhere made) "foster the conspiratorial side of this board"."

By posting my response to your U2U.

And I have invited the member to do several things with themselves, but to leave me alone.

I don't recall being invited, that entails a request not a directive. aside from which I fail to see how such invective whether by invite or by order is amenable to discourse.

Hence the use of my ignore button on this member.

once again, another lie. After you had proclaimed publicly that you had ignored me, you sent me yet another U2U telling me that and I had better watch it or you would un-ignore me and warn me. Now how does your ignoring me make sense in the first place?

The member has proven they don't mind one bit attacking my integrity, attempting character assassination through inuendo, implying "nefarious intentions", or employing outright false accusations. Since they won't stop, I refuse to read their filth, and definitely won't be responding to it.

You read it anyway that is necessary to placate yourself. And since you will find no filth in either my posts or my U2U's but you readily admit to having engaged in same yourself, I ned say no more about your purpose as regard my unrefutable and concise rebuttals.

I find it a bit sad that people are still posting comments to Ed as if he's going to read them. He will not be back to answer anybody's questions. Not because of death threats or mudslinging, but because he never intended to in the first place. I believe he either did what was instucted of him, or on his own accord posted an "official", vague as usual rebuttal because Val's thread was getting so much attention, and he wanted to go directly to the source. And just as was mentioned, he can now say he tried to reason with us, but recieved death threats and profanity, which I highly doubt. Idiots who make death threats just for the hell of it, usually don't frequent intellectual websites, and are too drunk and stupid to even log on to a computer. My gut tells me he's lying about that.

Originally posted by Shuffleon


This is all conjecture and opinion ONLY, and I welcome alternative possible explanations that match the known facts.

I'm guessing the man has had a life full of more important responsibilities than figuring out online bulletin board netiquette and best practice. This isn't a snipe, but it seems like a lot of people here assume that everybody grew up in the age of the internet and are familiar with all its elements and peculiarities.

Originally posted by 27jd
Idiots who make death threats just for the hell of it, usually don't frequent intellectual websites, and are too drunk and stupid to even log on to a computer.

You're joking, right?

-koji K.

Originally posted by koji_K
You're joking, right?

Yes, to an extent. My main point is, I think it should be fairly obvious to this man that the death threats he supposedly recieved weren't coming from anybody posting on his thread. Why would he make the decision to no longer correspond with us here, and answer a few questions regarding the FEMA operation he came here to defend, because he made a "mistake" (which I find highly suspicious that a man so high up in the intelligence community would make) and posted his phone number for any lurker to see. And IF what he claims is true, and he has abandoned his efforts to enlighten us all because a few random bad apples who are not part of our discussion here exploited his mistake, then should he really be in any position of authority in emergency management if he is so easily discouraged, and if he holds all accountable for the actions of a few? Come to think of it, his attitude reflects almost exactly the way FEMA has handled this entire situation.

Also, you stated this man may not be literate in the ways of the internet. I would sincerely hope a man with such responsibilities would have some knowledge of computer communications, if not, the U.S. intelligence community is in far worse shape than we ever imagined.

well so heres how it is, the biowarfare research centre in new orleans has been destroyed letting out dangerous pathogens; the govenrment fears that N.O. citizens have been contaminated and are therefore, shipping them off to remote camps to quarenteen them for 5 months, just in case

moranity
I thought that was the case for a while, but now I'm pretty sure the facilities are safe and secure. Intelgurl posted some info on this the other day, I'm going to see if I can find it.

That was my main concern too, but I don't think it's an issue.

What we SHOULD be VERY concerned about is the superfund site within the city limits, which is, if I'm not mistaken, completely under water. Loam has been posting some very interesting information about this situation in his thread on environmental consequences in NO, the thread title reads "Stop the Pumps Now!" or something similar.

Very good read, I reccomend it to anyone interested in knowing more about the challenges facing the reconstruction effort.

Originally posted by edkostiuk
If I may break down the report that was posted about our facility as Falls Creek in Oklahoma.

Page 1 stated: I packed up two car loads of us and headed over to Falls Creek. In the Emergency Management Community we have asked the population over and over not to "self deploy" and the following reason are given for such request.

Prior to Jesse Jackson making his comments our Governor and the State Officer of Emergency Management asked all Oklahomans to please refrain from using words such as refugees and displaced people. We were asked to use the wording "Oklahoma Guest". This went out on the media here in Oklahoma and in print.

The author of this report continues to use the term refugee throughout the paper.

One of the primary reasons for using Falls Creek was the picturesque area and having the ability by faith-based groups to allow these folks the ability to put their lives back to normal, as much as possible, without having the press and lot’s of concerned citizens hound them for interviews and “how was it”.

We knew from the start that we needed additional security at the site so Oklahoma Highway Patrol officers were assigned in double shifts to protect those “guest” from the media and other “well concerned citizens”.

She states her daughter “turned and snapped a picture of his vehicle (Page 5)—very conspicuously”. There was no reason for some James Bond type of picture taking OHP officers are very friendly and will allow their photo’s and that of their cruisers to be taken.

The reason (page 7) for not allowing clothes was the fact we need to ensure they are clean and in good order. We have over the years at disasters received soiled and dirty diapers, ripped clothes and other related items by well meaning citizens. We now have retired ladies who help us select clothes that can be used by these folks. I have photos’ of thousands of clothes at Fall Creek that were standing by ready to be delivered to these folks.

(Page 8) The occupants of the camp cannot leave the camp for any reason. That is true once they were placed on the busses we had no way to determine their medical status. They have been exposed to several elements and prior to allowing them off camp we wanted to have them checked out by the Doctors and Nurses we had lined up at Falls Creek (Page 15 the people in the blue jump suits). We also had 22 ambulances standing by for medical emergencies. We had a similar camp in Northern Oklahoma and had 4 medical emergencies the night these good folks arrived and they needed immediate transport to a local hospital. Many of these US Citizens arrived with pre-existing medical conditions.

The reason your “pop-tarts” were accepted is they are sealed in an enclosed package and are “tamper proof”. We are trying to protect our Louisiana friends from the criminal element and bad people that might want harm done to them. This is the reason Apples and Oranges were not allowed. I wonder if this lady allowed her children to go around on Thanksgiving and accept open candy from strangers.

Oklahoma never had the intention of accepting 5,000 guests (page 9) as she stated. Our cap and the cap that our governor worked out was 3,000 at falls creek. This is the maximum number of meals, toys, clothes and other related things that needed to be in place prior to our guest arriving.

The Cell phones were put in place by our Office of Emergency Management due to a request of our emergency workers since cell phone coverage is so poor. Cingular and others donated the towers and equipment including the coverage. We also place these cell towers at Falls Creek so once the people were on their feet they could start calling loved ones throughout the country and inform them they were OK.

The toys she refers to must first be checked. We have had “Christian groups” donate toys such as swords, toy guns and other devices that usually mean harm donated to our causes over the years so we check them closely before allowing any kids to play with them.

The meals were going to be provided by the American Red Cross and the Salvation Army. We at the Health Department were requiring that they eat hot food with plenty of vegetables not the “junk food” that this lady stated she was brining. Snacks were to be laid out during the day and night for their use, but meals which included the basic food groups were required 3 times a day.

Mod Edit: Removed phone number

Ed Kostiuk
Oklahoma State Dept of Health
Emergency Management


[edit on 12-9-2005 by ZeddicusZulZorander]

This guy Ed Kostiuk of Oklahoma State Department Health Emergency Management and Bioterrorism Emergency Management Coordinator is a member of ATS? Are you out of your mind? To even think of letting this fascist pig be a member, is a slap in all of our faces.

What did his introduction read as: I think Bush is a fascist-globalist dictator that must be taken down for the good of our country. I think the federal government has way too much power and that most of it should go back to the States. That the 9/11 WTC situation was part of a Hegelian Dialectic in order to bring the New World Order (permanently) into the consciousnesses of the American people, via fear and hysteria, this is the way the USA patriot Act and Homeland Security Act will fall into place. That the entire Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is set up to bring in martial law, to strip all citizens of their basic rights, to throw them all in concentration camps (via the Internal Security Act of 1950). And/or, that the Queen of the Windsor Royal Family runs most of the show. Did he place all this in his introduction? Or did he say something like this:

I am an American, born and raised in America. The greatest country in the world. I will protect and defend her no matter who is the enemy. I rather have death if no liberty. I am a true patriot. I am a man of wisdom, dignity, and that I help my fellow American out when in genuine need. Did he say this?

Or did he say this: I am working undercover for the federal and state government (Oklahoma and President Bush and on down). I am on a mission to infiltrate as many conspiracy theorist sites in order to gain knowledge and eventually figure out a way to get to the most secret knowledge or forums on the given web site and then in turn, to figure out a way, either through a law already on the books or a new law, to shut down the web site in its entirety as being a threat to the national security (be it domestic or international). That I must figure out a way to draw attention to the "rebuttal" in order to infiltrate as many persons that are dissidents to the Bush et al creed. Did his introduction say this?

Or maybe his introduction said this: I am here to spy on you. Huh? Did it say this?

I say, kick his rear out of our community. And if possible, ban his IP from peering over any of our pages. What's next, George Bush a member?

This guy is recruiting people on the Yahoo Group site to help with the emergency management. I signed up as an ex-CIA officer who is currently undergoing an infiltration of abovetopsecret web site. Let's see how he likes it when the tables are turned. He puts comments in his thread that is total crud, and yet expects some guy with a credential to sign up to join his team of emergency management.

And he places his thread on September 11, 2005 as if to say, see what type of conspiracy theory you can infer from this date? The only thing I infer from this guy is, if I don't place my boot to his rear he will conitnue to spy in on our community.

According to the United States Code, Title 42, Section 5197a, Ed Kostiuk (of the Oklahoma State Department Health Emergency Management and EMT-W Bioterrorism Emergency Management Coordinator located at 1000 NE 10th Suite 414, Oklahoma City, OK, 73117) took an oath never to become part of a group, or a member of any organization that advocates to overthrow the Government of the United States.

Being a member of Above Top Secret, which if it had its ultimate way, they (the membership) and I would overthrow the United States Government according to the United States Declaration of Independence. Whether it be a judicial, educational and/or physical overthrow. Therefore, you sir, Mister Ed Kostiuk are in violation of your oath.

Two places this oath may be found:

United States Code, Title 42, Section 5197a, Security Regulations

www.findlaw.com...

Or for the text of the oath, one may find it at:

caselaw.lp.findlaw.com... casecode/uscodes/42/chapters/68/subchapters/iv-b/parts/b/sections/section_5197a.html


Ed Kostiuk is full of it. According to this oath, regardless if one is an employee of FEMA or a State Emergency Management unit, as our Mr. Ed is, one must keep this oath always.

Ed Kostiuk as of now is a wanted criminal by his own government. How's it feel to be truly a dissident or an outlaw? Or are you just playing the admin and others as fools? Or do you think your damage control will work? Word of warning from someone that knows all about you and your pompous government, tread on my toes in this forum and I turn you over to the feds.

I hope you understand this. Because I do.

Originally posted by 39 drops of solder

Being a member of Above Top Secret, which if it had its ultimate way, they (the membership) and I would overthrow the United States Government according to the United States Declaration of Independence. Whether it be a judicial, educational and/or physical overthrow.

Where the heck are you living? Speak for yourself solder-pool because you are not speaking for this member. I assure you.

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by 39 drops of solder

Being a member of Above Top Secret, which if it had its ultimate way, they (the membership) and I would overthrow the United States Government according to the United States Declaration of Independence. Whether it be a judicial, educational and/or physical overthrow.

Where the heck are you living? Speak for yourself solder-pool because you are not speaking for this member. I assure you.

Okay, well I don't speak for you. I check one off the list. I get it...are you up to playing a game of hearts? Anytime, we'll play. I am a perfect sport. And after the game, if you like...we'll talk...and talk...and talk....and talk; well, that is, over a game of gin? I like gin. I can only hope you do too.

Maybe we can all hold hands and sing What The World Needs Now Is Love. But first, we'll all have a tournament of hearts.

But I know, as far as this planet is concerned, we'll stick to good ol Fabian Socialist approach: an educational revolution. Because I would hate to see a bunch of average Joes and Janes fall to mud and blood.

You're right, first things first...first we'll talk, and talk some more (or post, and post some more). Then we'll decide to...well...post some more. But hey, nothing wrong with this, as long as Americans wake up.

So on with the post.