Gun and Property rights issues in the aftermath of Katrina .(please watch video clip), page 3


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reply posted on 13-9-2005 @ 05:05 PM by EastCoastKid
Originally posted by Amuk
There is two issues bothering me about the after effects of this disaster that I believe will have long term repercussions.

One is the Government taking away citizens guns.

Isn't situations like this one of the REASONS for the second amendment?


Yep. And to supposedly keep a tyrannical government in check.

Lemme just say, first of all, if I had property that was being threatened, I'd be locking and loading too. The government's not gonna take care of your property. All they're gonna do is seize it/use it/sell it.

Folks who have such a stake should take measures to guard against these unlawful seizures. Now, I'm not for breaking the laws, but ya know what? Our very government has overstepped THEIR controlling legal authority (the US Constitution)! These laws that are governing what's going on down in LA. are unconstitutional! They are FEMA diktats authorized by presidential directive! Boiled down: PURE BS! It began under Carter and beefed up under Reagan in the early '80's (See: Garden Plot, REX 84)

I learned a valuable lesson once in boot camp. When you have something the government considers contraband, and you know you NEED it, don't show your entire hand. Be smarter than them. Play along. Give 'em what they think they want, and hold back on your stash. You keep half of it hidden and make them think they have it all. They'll go away, and you'll still be protected. I know its a dangerous game, but that's life; and you are the only one who, at the end of the day, is gonna look out for you and your own. The government sure won't.



My second issue is with the Government forcing people off their property.


I understand the water's bad and power's down and on and on.. but come on! I've seen so much property around the French Quarter that held up just fine! Why should they be forced to leave their property? Because of a health hazard? Look at those properties - do you think those folks can't handle taking care of themselves until all is restored?! Come on! Those folks have money! They'll be just fine. In a just world, the government has absolutely NO business making someone leave their property! But the fact is, we do not live in anything remotely resembling a just world. We live in a state of such corruption in governance it's beyond belief. This government (and probly most others) will do whatever they want to do, to hell with the people. Look at the recent Supreme Court decision on imminant domain! They said the city/state government can just TAKE your property - screw you! If it benefits the city/state, than so-be-it! Is that wrong? ABSOLUTELY! Guess what though? The days of there being much honesty left in the 2nd ammendment, I fear, are long gone.

I personally think this administration (and whoever else) sat back and let this tragedy happen. Why? To purge the poor and black element from the city of New Orleans so that the greediest and seediest power players can go in there and build their new shining white Las Vegas on the Gulf. Three cheers for Halliburton and Bechtel! From the Gulf to the Gulf they feed off misery and disaster. But I digress.

NO ONE should be forced out of their homes in New Orleans! It's WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! Just my two cents.


reply posted on 13-9-2005 @ 05:40 PM by Fry2
Originally posted by Seekerof
Originally posted by Amuk
One is the Government taking away citizens guns.

Isn't situations like this one of the REASONS for the second amendment? If you are not allowed to protect yourself in an area without government authority where can you? I can not believe my countrymen meekly handed over their only means of self defense, especially after seeing how the Government had 'Protected" them after the hurricane.

Amazingly, you must have missed the various media citings of looters and general riff-raff taking liberal aim at aid workers, levee re-construction workers, and such? The arms were taken away for a reason and a justifiable reason at that. The second amendment can be over-ridden for a number of reasons. Having returned (and heading back next week) from the French Quarter of New Orleans, be assured that those there were glad to see such a decree being made and subsequently enforced by local, state, and government people.

seekerof


Excuse me? Since when can the Second Amendment be "over-ridden"? What about the rest of them? Are they all just merely imaginary window dressings to you?
I suppose that the First Amendment only applies to people saying what the government wants to hear but can be easily over-ridden when "they" deem appropriate?


Thanks Amuk, You have enlightened me (once again) to the absolute B.S. that is being forced down our gullets in the name of "security".

"Cold Dead Hands" Indeed...


reply posted on 13-9-2005 @ 06:43 PM by Amuk
Originally posted by Seekerof

Here is the real concern, the United Nations:
U.S. gun rights at issue in UN effort


Your kidding, right?

We are susposed to be scared of the UN that everyone including us ignores, but its OK for OUR government to beat a 70 year old woman to the ground and take her gun away from her?

We have 200 pound Government Agents slamming elderly women around but the UN is the problem.......Got it

I have to agree with cole.....she should have shot the ..........nevermind

[edit on 13-9-2005 by Amuk]


reply posted on 13-9-2005 @ 06:51 PM by Shadowflux
The most alarming aspect of this whole situation for me is not only how easily Americans gave up their land and their fire arms but how many people fail to see the modern relevancy of "anitquated" rights such as the 2nd Ammendment. Granted, people who are not American citizens are not expected to know and understand our Constitution but it is unacceptable for American citizens to consider constitutional infrigements as unimprotant. It seems the prevalent opinion in reagrds to actions such as those taken against the elderly women is that they are justified because she had a gun and refused direct police orders. I am shocked to have to say this is not the case. The legality of an action is relative, obviously firing upon a police officer when in a situation such as the old woman found herself in is considered illegal. But legality and constitutionality are two different things. Laws are created by the government under the guise of protecting the citizenry when in reality they tend to serve those in charge. Our Constitutional rights are the very foundation of our country and is meant to ensure the longevity of the American people even in the face of armed confrontation with the government. Our nation was created not with the continuance of government in mind but the continuation of the very beliefs that led to the creation of this country. More over it was the wish of our founding fathers that we, as the free people of this nation, oppose the government when even a minor infringement is perpetrated.

I think the major stumbling block for most people is understanding that the government of the United States of America and the country of America are two very different and sometimes opposing things. We the people are the country, we created the government to serve the people and they are without power if not for our complaince. It is when the government ceases to serve the people that we must revoke our compliance. Our founding fathers wouldn't have had it any other way and that is the origin of our 2nd Ammendment right. Here in America we have the right to oppose the government, but it is the 2nd Ammendment that gives us the power to do so. We must not forget that in a tyrannical government anything that threatens the power of those in charge will be deemed illegal and that may include the ownership of a firearm, the propegation of "Un-American hate speech", the illegal occupation of "government land" which once was your home, and above all else, refusal to comply with orders. The American Judicial System was created by the people to create a safe, fair, and logical system by which we can punish those convicted of a crime against the community. When the government uses our legal system to justify grossly unconstitutional actions against it's own citizens it is time that we refuse to recognize the validity of such laws. The only law that we should recognize is that of the constitution and no law or executive order has the power to over ride the constitution.

We must seek to understand what is transpiring in New Orleans within the context of the aftermath of Katrina. New Orleans has been virtually destroyed, infrastructure is gone and the local government has run away. New Orleans has been abbandonned and there for it can be considered to be no longer under the control of the federal government as it was prior to Katrina. The only government in many areas of New Orleans are the citizens who stayed and survived and the power to govern their lands rests in the power of their fire arms. I am of the belief that the federal government is re-conquering New Orleans hence why it is being considered a "combat operation" against "insurgents". The people of New Orleans are no longer citizens of the federal government in the same way you and I are. By the power of default the people of New Orleans have become their own government, in a way, freer than any American has been in a while. The disarming and taking back of New Orleans is very much a combat operation, the only difference between this and Iraq being that the Iraqis didn't willingly turn over their land and arms. The Federal American Government has lost New Orleans, it is no longer a part of their sphere of influence, I suppose we should count ourselves lucky that it was a storm and not another country that took New Orleans.
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