The Illuminati 101

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
If Al Qaeda is smart enough to operate in cells, wouldn’t the Illuminati be able to do this also?
In fact even Weishaupt had design such a command structure.

These are not cells, this is a heirarchy, things like alqaida are arranged differently, more, infact, like a business corporation, than anything else.

[quoteLoungerist
OK,then I'm not sure what universe of linguists and archaeologists.
The ones that do linguistic and archaeological work.

Nor does his unpopularity amongst certain sects have anything to do with being at all wrong.

I agree 100%. Perhaps I shall have to give in and read one of his works, as it appears so many have seen enough to reject his ideas without having read it all. Which do you recommend as the most scholarly?

The line is passed from generation to generation so there's automatic membership on top of the recruiting.

For 6,000 years? Calculate how many families this leads to, assuming that every other generation has at least two males to inherit the secret. The group would encompas much of the human world if it operated thru families. At the very least, it'd require that only one child per generation to be initiated and only that one (like the Sith, 'allways only one master and one apprentice, never more, never less', per family anyway).

I'm not sure what you think that would do to the Illuminati

If you live in a city and everyone there is put to the knife, then you are dead, whether you're a member of the illuminati club or not.

The odds of the whole group all being in one place at the same time some major cataclysm occurs is beyond astronomical even spread out over 6K years

How so? If it started in sumeria, right then and there they were all together, and those cities were constantly sacked, burnt, starved, flooded, destroyed, etc.

And that's not even factoring in how unlikely it is any natural disaster would be unforseen,violent,and fast enough to sneak up on and wipe out the most in-the-know and financially capable people on the face of the Earth.

?? Up until recently, there was no such ability, and certainly over the vast majority of the past 6,000 years floods, hurricanes, etc, appeared unexpectedly and money presented no real benefit. A rich sumerian could get his donkey-pulled battle wagon to go a little faster than a peasant, but neither is going to know about some storm coming from far off. And that situation didn't change much in the 6,000 years hence. There'd have to be some loss of family lines, at a minimum, no group is going to survive that long completely intact.

Originally posted by Nygdan

These are not cells, this is a heirarchy, things like alqaida are arranged differently, more, infact, like a business corporation, than anything else.

I seem to be confused on how a cell structure work, Can someone explain it to me? I was under the impression that cells still have a hierarchy within, and did pass orders from above...

Here is a definition of a cell: (I paraphrased this in my note book and don’t have the source anymore)

Cell Structure: A large organization divided into many multi-person groups. The information is compartmentalize inside each cell as needed. The greater the organization the more likely it is to survive one component being compromised.

It seems to me that’s how Weishaupt had organized the Illuminati. Few members knew he was the leader of the Bavarian Illuminati. (or was he?) I think that’s quite different from how a corporation is organized and much more similar to a cell system.

Weishaupt could have been an operation commander in one of many cells. And we know from the Illuminati confessions that by then the Illuminati had already spread all over Europe and America.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Originally posted by Nygdan

These are not cells, this is a heirarchy, things like alqaida are arranged differently, more, infact, like a business corporation, than anything else.

I seem to be confused on how a cell structure work, Can someone explain it to me? I was under the impression that cells still have a hierarchy within, and did pass orders from above...

I'd say that a group that is organized into independant cells will have a directorate, and then nothing more than the independant cells, rather than a chain of command that ends in the cells. The benefit of the cellular organization is that they can be trained, and then released, without any more need to direct.

I think that’s quite different from how a corporation is organized and much more similar to a cell system.

Perhaps, but wrt al-qaida, from what I understand, they have lots of overlapping directorates and boards, and lots of outsiders contracted in for special projects and the like, which is more like a corporation than anything else. But these are quibbles anyway.

Originally posted by Nygdan
I agree 100%. Perhaps I shall have to give in and read one of his works, as it appears so many have seen enough to reject his ideas without having read it all. Which do you recommend as the most scholarly?

The Earth Chronicles are a series that are mainly translations from what I've read so scholarly may not really apply. I would just suggest reading through a little of each of them since they're all one story basically.

For 6,000 years? Calculate how many families this leads to, assuming that every other generation has at least two males to inherit the secret. The group would encompas much of the human world if it operated thru families.

Not sure how you figure. It operates on the same system as royalty. Royalty doesn't encompass much of the human world as people tend to die so it would never grow to the type of proportions you're thinking. Not to mention only a certain number of people would be allowed to be illuminated anyway.

If you live in a city and everyone there is put to the knife, then you are dead, whether you're a member of the illuminati club or not.

And who's going to put a knife to people with the security and influence of an Illuminatus? It's unlikely an Illuminatus would get knifed by a common pillager,and also unlikely that an entire city population would get slaughtered by such means. Even assuming this does happen only the members in that city would be killed. With these kinds of scenarios you'd have to believe all family lines were also knifed out of existence. The odds are simply not there for the Illuminati to get bumped off in one big lump massacre.

The odds of the whole group all being in one place at the same time some major cataclysm occurs is beyond astronomical even spread out over 6K years

How so? If it started in sumeria, right then and there they were all together, and those cities were constantly sacked, burnt, starved, flooded, destroyed, etc.

If the Illuminati was eliminated when first formed,sure. But since they weren't you have to calculate the odds from there. And a city being sacked,burnt,flooded,or destroyed may take out most of the commoners,but the Illuminati weren't nearly as susceptible.

And that's not even factoring in how unlikely it is any natural disaster would be unforseen,violent,and fast enough to sneak up on and wipe out the most in-the-know and financially capable people on the face of the Earth.

?? Up until recently, there was no such ability, and certainly over the vast majority of the past 6,000 years floods, hurricanes, etc, appeared unexpectedly and money presented no real benefit.

No such ability as what? These people were capable of some rather astounding things. Towers can safely house people from floods as can the ability to travel to highlands. And I doubt even the worst hurricane could raize some of the structures the ancients built. We're not just talking about money,but about knowledge. These weren't people living in huts.

A rich sumerian could get his donkey-pulled battle wagon to go a little faster than a peasant, but neither is going to know about some storm coming from far off. And that situation didn't change much in the 6,000 years hence.

Do you think a storm would penetrate and kill Illuminati through the walls of a ziggurat?

There'd have to be some loss of family lines, at a minimum, no group is going to survive that long completely intact.

No one's said they never had any losses. I'm sure they have. As well as gains.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Here's one such account, well, sort of

To go off-topic briefly,there's a rather interesting response to this article.

skepdic.com...

Well, naturally. States have vested interests in unifying the communicative codes of their societies. This practice is a driving force of nation-building; it is a mechanism by which a state is bonded with its population and by which a society finds a common voice for communication. This common voice of the people engenders a sense of community and, insofar as the state’s power is represented by language, the community’s subordination to the voice of the state. The state’s unique “brand” of language, employed in civil and legal correspondence, constitutes the “legitimate language”, the production and reproduction of which is thereby the charge of the state. The Illuminati are pleased to provide this and have entrenched the legitimacy of their brand to the point that theirs is the only voice that registers as such.