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NEWS: China Speaks - Criticises U.S War On Terror

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posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
Although slightly off topic, perhpas before you begin your tirade against China about Taiwan, would you care to read up on the history of it?


You should be following that same advice....



Originally posted by stumason

Have a read and educate yourself, instead of repeating the same, tired old "dirty, pinko Commie" rhetoric.

I doubt you will read it...In fact, I fully expect you to ignore it completely, but I have peace of mind knowing I tried to tell you.


Educate myself?.... I have researched this topic for a long while now and I have given data and documents backing up what i say for over a year in these same forums, so before you go around telling anyone to educate themselves, perhaps you should take that piece of advice yourself and do some research....

BTW...did you even read the excerpt you gave?.....

The communists had control over mainland China, while the government of the ROC fled the mainland and set up their government in Taiwan, claiming they were still the legitimate government of China. Of course the ROC by that time was not in control over the mainland, but they did take control over Taiwan. Communist China had no legitimate control over Taiwan, because they never captured Taiwan....




Republic of China in Taiwan




The Republic of China (ROC) began on mainland China, succeeding the Qing Dynasty in 1912 and ending 2,000 years of imperial rule. Its existence on mainland China was scarred by warlordism, Japanese invasion, and civil war and ended in 1949 when the Chinese Communists overthrew the Chinese Nationalists (also known as Kuomintang). Although originally intended as a democracy, throughout its tenure on the mainland, it was mainly a dictatorship.

The ROC government then evacuated to Taiwan and set up a provisional capital in Taipei where it continued to regard itself as the sole legitimate government of China. Meanwhile, the Communists proclaimed the People's Republic of China and claimed to be the successor state to the ROC over all of China and that the Nationalist government in Taiwan was illegitimate. From its early days to its move to Taiwan, the Republic of China has been closely associated with the Kuomintang (KMT)—a party formed by the revolutionaries that originally established the Republic, though it is no longer the ruling party.


Do notice the part where it says the ROC established Taiwan as a Republic..... before the Communist Chinese took control over the mainland.

Now do notice again the following part.....



Although the national boundaries have never been officially redrawn, the ROC no longer pursues its claims over mainland China and Mongolia. Also, the now defunct National Assembly has passed constitutional amendments that give the people of Taiwan, Pescadores, Quemoy, and Matsu the sole right to exercise the sovereignty of the Republic through elections of the President and the entire Legislature as well as through elections to ratify amendments to the ROC constitution. For some, this suggests that the ROC implicitly admits that its sovereignty is limited to the areas that it controls.


The sovereingnty of the ROC is over the areas they control....and part of that area is.....you guessed it.... TAIWAN

Anyways, if you want to continue discussing the above perhaps you should be taking a look at the San Francisco Peace Treaty of 1951.....

Here are a few excerpts for your perusal. Read and educate yourself....


The British delegate stated that "In due course a solution must be found in accord with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations." The Egyptian delegate stated that specifying the recipient is "to afford the opportunity to take into consideration the principle of self-determination and the expressed desire of the inhabitants of Taiwan." The French delegate stated that: "Taiwan's legal status must be determined one of these days, taking the wishes of the Formosan population into consideration."

It was thus the specific intention of the attendants of the San Francisco Peace Conference that the people of Taiwan should determine the future status of the island based on the principle of self-determination.
Such process was not possible at the time, because the island was occupied by the losing side of China's Civil War, Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalists.


Excerpted from.
www.taiwandc.org...

Let's read some more....


Resolution in the US Congress
In the US Congress, the 50th Anniversary of the conclusion of the San Francisco Peace Treaty was marked by the introduction of a resolution in support of Taiwan's self-determination. The resolution, HCR-221, states that it is the sense of Congress that "It is United States policy that the future of Taiwan should be resolved peacefully, through a democratic mechanism such as a plebiscite and with the express consent of the people of Taiwan". The full text can be found at www.taiwandc.org...

The resolution specifically refers to the fact that under the provisions of the 1951 San Francisco Peace Treaty, Japan renounced all right, title and claim to Taiwan, and the status of the island was left undetermined.

The resolution then states that under the universal principle of self-determination as enshrined in Article 1 of the United Nations Charter, the people of Taiwan have the right to determine their own future. It emphasizes that the United States, as a signatory to the UN Charter, supports that fundamental right. The resolution was introduced by a bi-partisan group of Congressmen led by Rep. Bob Wexler (D-FL).


The People of Taiwan have the right to self determination according to the mandates of the UN. China does not have the right to determine what Taiwan should, or shouldn't do.



[edit on 11-9-2005 by Muaddib]




posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 02:57 AM
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There's allot of confusion on this because of China's propaganda.

China sees it this way they were fighting the ROC. In their mind, the ROC now controls Taiwan. They defeated the ROC in the civil war so all the spoils goes to China. The problem is the ROC was to only watching over Taiwan. They never obtained sovereignty. When the CCP defeated the KMT the ROC ceased to exist. The KMT today thinks it can now deed Taiwan back to the CCP for a share of power. Under international law this won't work. The treaty Shimonoseki deeded Taiwan to Japan, clearly. The US, the main signator of the San Francisco Treaty, is also the default guarantor of Taiwan's future, though this treaty did not grant sovereignty to the US. Sovereignty now lies w/ the people of Taiwan, But not the ROC. Tricky , huh? (PS: all communiques, proclamations and declarations signed by the US w/ anyone are no better than press releases under international law)



A lie told a thousand times

By Kengchi Goah

Sunday, Sep 11, 2005,Page 8
Could a lie told a thousand times become a truth?

Yes, it could. That is what China believes in, and attempts to concoct regarding Taiwan's sovereignty. China has been entertaining vengeance against Japan and the West, for both have abused China in the past. Unable to take revenge on either country, China instead turned its anger on Taiwan, a small chip that China once abandoned and now claims as part of its territory. However, the claim stands on thin ice and must be refuted with facts.

Geometry says that a platform requires a minimum of three pillars to stand firmly on the globe. How many pillars support China's claim of title to Taiwan? Zero.

In 1895, by signing the Treaty of Shimonoseki with Japan as a result of defeat in a Sino-Japanese war, China ceded Taiwan to Japan in perpetuity, in addition to paying huge amounts of monetary compensation.

In 1943, the Cairo Declaration, a joint statement slightly better than a press release with no legal power, was issued expressing the common intent of restoring Taiwan to China after the war as a condition enticing China to pin down Japanese forces on the Asian continent.

In 1945, World War II ended with Japan's defeat and surrender to the Allied powers. The Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) government was assigned by the Allied powers as their agent to administer Taiwan.

In 1949, defeated by the Chinese Communists, the KMT took refuge in Taiwan. The KMT was supposed to be an agent of the Allied powers, but they began a reign of terror. Meanwhile, the communists declared the establishment of the People's Republic of China (PRC) government in Beijing.

In 1950, the Korean War broke out. US president Harry Truman dispatched the Seventh Fleet to the Taiwan Strait.

In 1951, by signing the San Francisco Peace Treaty (SFPT), Japan renounced its title to Taiwan. That treaty, however, did not nullify the Treaty of Shimonoseki. In essence, Taiwan's legal status did not revert to what it was prior to the signing of the Treaty of Shimonoseki.

Furthermore, neither the Republic of China (ROC) government nor the PRC government represented the state of China in drafting or concluding the treaty. The treaty, which entered into effect in 1952, completely overrode the Cairo Declaration and excluded China from issues pertaining to Taiwan.

In 1952, after the SFPT took effect, the ROC government taking refuge in Taiwan signed a Treaty of Peace with Japan reaffirming the terms of SFPT. However, the ROC government was at that time not representing Taiwan in any legal capacity.



www.taipeitimes.com...

www.taiwanbasic.com...

www.taiwanbasic.com...







[edit on 9/12/2005 by bodebliss]



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by Odium

Muaddib, America pretty much does the same thing just without writing the laws down. It has made it clear it'll use Military Force in Iran if they have to, China has just done the same with Taiwan.


There is a bit of a difference between Iran and Taiwan.... Please do show me when Taiwan has proclaimed that they have targets in China and they are ready to attack them.... Show me proof that Taiwan has promoted "violence" against China and is funding, abeiting and hiding terrorists that are attacking China....

You can't seriously compare Taiwan to Iran....



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
God Knows how many Nations the USA is pointing their Missile at - but that's A-OK, right?


If we are pointing any missiles at any nation is because they are pointing their missiles at us, but do tell me how many nations have we threatened that have not done anything at all to us. Please don't come with the crap about Afghanistan and Iraq, there was a coalition that went to those countries because both those countries had regimes which funded, gave shelter and instigated violence against western countries and their civilians. Anyways there is only a minority of people in Iraq that don't want the US. If you think the people in Iraq like what the insurgents are doing tell us why so many Iraqis died trampling each other trying to run away from a rumor of an insurgent strapped with a bomb being among them.... Why have we heard news of Iraqi civilians taking up arms and killing insurgents that were about to commit attacks... Why have Iraqis give up insurgent possitions over and over again...


Originally posted by Souljah
Fact is the USA is trying very hard to maintain the role of the No.1 World Superpower - and China is right behind.


What the heck does that have anything to do with China wanting and working towards invading Taiwan?..... That would be like the US trying to invade Canada....


Originally posted by Souljah
Does the American have the Right to re-shape the entire World according to their Plans to rule it?


No, but we have the right to defend ourselves against those that want to destroy us.


Originally posted by Souljah
Does the American have the Right to tell all other Nations, that they do not have that Right?


The only nations we have a problem is are those that want to destroy the US and keep threatening with doing so.

BTW...this coming from a self proclaimed "revolutionary" that wants to change the world to his own view and that of his "revolutionary" buddies?..... The irony i tell you....



Originally posted by Souljah
The PNAC is a clear Plan for the USA to create and maintain the World dominance as an Empire and use Pax Americana in places that do not agree with that Plan.


There wouldn't be any need for "Pax Americana" if there weren't countries and groups out there that want to destroy the US and if there weren't people out there that want to be rid from tyranical "revolutionaries" and other tyrants....


Originally posted by Souljah
And War on Terror alongside with 9-11 are the basic points for the start of the PNAC.


The war on terror started when Islamic extremists decided to attack western citizens.


Originally posted by Souljah
A line frequently quoted from Rebuilding America's Defenses famously refers to the possibility of a "catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor".


Care to point that to us and explain to us exactly what are you trying to imply here?

Here is the link to the PNAC.

newamericancentury.org...

BTW souljah, don't other countries have contigency plans?


[edit on 13-9-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 11:06 PM
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Originally posted by Rikimaru

Souljah is notorious for his anti-american, pro-communist homicide rhetoric, perhaps if souljah, and indeed most of europe did not have their heads filled with this crap in europe, they might be able to have a thought of their own. way to go souljah!


I know what you are telling is true Rikimaru.
I am glad some people see the truth about his comments.



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
All terrorism has its roots in funding from nations with ulterior motives..
Its like a science experiment that goes wrong...
Terrorism is the USA's very own frankenstein..
An apt metaphor IMO..


Riiight.... I guess that's why pretty much every nation on Earth has terrorist problems....because of the US....


If that was so the terrorists would attack only the US, but they even attack countries who were against the war on terror.

Terrorists normally recruit people, including children who are poor.

In the case of Osama Bin Laden, he recruited people using his own money which he adquired through the Sudanese construction company he started years back. But even him and his lackeys are using the unfortunate for terrorist attacks, grabbing children by the hand and walking towards coalition forces with ombs strapped to their chest....

There are nations such as Palestine, if it can be called a nation, that have government funded terrorist campaigns which indoctrinate children and instills in them hatred towards Israelis.

The list for the reasons of the existance of terrorism is long, but I can tell you that that statement of yours only shows how little you know about terrorism.



posted on Sep, 13 2005 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by Luxifero
..........
the very same token of gratitude is expressed by Muadab, who tends to allude to China policies at home instead of debating the statement expounded by them in regards to America's war on terror. These irrational ad hominem attacks may work in Highschool, but we're much older now.


Your attempts at patronizing me do not work Luxifero, and the actions of China towards terrorism say enough not to take this latest verbal attack against the US seriously at all.



Originally posted by Luxifero
The fact remains that members can debate hours on end discerning the moral precedence of both countries, however, this topic is not in regards to that, it has to do with terrorism.

Luxifero


The fact remains that China deals with terrorism with a tougher hand than the US does, yet they assume they can criticize the US....

[edit on 13-9-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 01:23 AM
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I am imagining TRILLIONS of cute fuzzy pandas in red underwear snickering that anyone takes their Friendly Zookeeping Comrads head-shaking seriously. They find this thread amusing.

Friendly Zookeeping Comrad says to cute fuzzy pandas:
"Oh Pandas! What will you think of next!?!. Panda Silly One! Look-out! Oops. You have lost your arm now in the Plastic Thingy Machine. No soup for you! Go home and don't have any more cute fuzzy plastic Baby Pandas either! because the Shiny Abortion and Recycling Machine is overheating. Have a happy TV Watching Time eating Not-So-Soilent-Green-Rice or sit in the Currently Tank-Less Public Square of No History. Go economy. GO PANDAS!!!!! GO BIG PLASTIC WORLD!"




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