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NEWS: China Speaks - Criticises U.S War On Terror

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posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
They didn't say how to deal with uprising nor how to deal with terrorism. They displayed why terrorism happens.

Uhh, no. You need to actually read the article:


www.news.com.au
"All this proves that in order to win the war against terrorism, it is not enough just to hunt down the terrorists," Xinhua said.

"To achieve its goal, the US administration needs to get to the root of terrorism to find the solution.

"It is obvious that the war on terror can be won only by relieving poverty, eliminating the political, economic and social conditions under which terrorism and extremism breed and cooperating closely with the rest of the international community under the UN leadership," said Xinhua.

Sounds like they're telling how to handle it to me...coming up next, The Incredible Hulk gives us a lesson in table manners.


And I never knew XinHua owned the BBC because everything I spoke of came from the week-long run of shows the BBC put on about the changing face of China.

You probably also didn't know that foreign media are only allowed into certain areas of China, that they are given guided tours and observed by an entourage of CCP people off camera, and that any figures or statistics they get are obtained from the CCP. You probably also didn't know that the BBC is blocked in China and they are playing nice with the CCP to hopefully get a foot back in the door.


...thank you for letting us know.

Your welcome.


None of this arguing about supposed reforms from the CCP addresses the point that they have absolutely no right to start pointing fingers due to their own failure to adhere to the tenets they speak of. The CCP has been reforming to an extent, granted, but nowhere near as fantastically as their propaganda would have us believe, and they are a LONG way from being able to judge or give advice to anybody else when it comes to dealing with terrorism or human rights. Schumacher doesn't ask a car wrecker how to drive.




posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 11:17 AM
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I just LOVE the new cute and cuddly China with its amusing and silly little meaningless opinions and useful handcrafted plastic thingies carefully manufactured by happy little workers. I think China is simply one great big fluffy panda bear.



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 11:35 AM
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I just LOVE the new cute and cuddly China with its amusing and silly little meaningless opinions and useful handcrafted plastic thingies carefully manufactured by happy little workers. I think China is simply one great big fluffy panda bear.


I just LOVE how members like yourself have nothing articulated to say other than non-sensical attacks where they are not merited; the very same token of gratitude is expressed by Muadab, who tends to allude to China policies at home instead of debating the statement expounded by them in regards to America's war on terror. These irrational ad hominem attacks may work in Highschool, but we're much older now.

The fact remains that members can debate hours on end discerning the moral precedence of both countries, however, this topic is not in regards to that, it has to do with terrorism.

Luxifero



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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Hang it up Odium...you will never win an arguement with Muaddib, not because he is neccessarily right but he has the faith of a true believer and conversion is not an option.
!!!
In all actuallity his arguements simply do not hold water. I am not, nor have I seen a post of anyone supporting the totalitarian regime in China or it's tactics...all any of us are saying is that what they were quoted as saying in this thread is accurate...like so many social disruptions (and isn't that what terrorism is after all?) to successfully deal with it, you have to address it's underlying causes. To say the Chinese government is being hypocritical is also moot....all governments are hypocritical including ours...and in alot of ways given our propensity of high sounding retoric, especially ours.



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 11:55 AM
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Actualy, wecomeinpeace, when the BBC went village to village they didn't get an entourage and were allowed to go around asking whatever they wanted. :-)

That was the whole point of the BBC show in fact, to display the Modern China compaired to the one during the 1980's and it was very different.

The average person on the street had a high level of understanding about Government, Democracy, etc, but cared more about crime than who was in power.

There were several other things...

But then by your posts China changing its policy and the way it rules isn't good enough for you?

What would you rather they do? Stay how they were or move on and do better for the people? Oh yes...they don't change, nope, not one bit.



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 12:18 PM
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So China is finaly getting around to doing something I have been doing for years now, welcome to the freaking club China!



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 12:33 PM
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China has voiced what we already know. So what is the argument?
No matter what is said, it will not change China's stand on the issue.

If we are the smarter creature, then let us hand Iraq to China and have them lead the war on terror.

Of course, that doesn't fit the American agenda of remaining number one, controlling the oil, and have carte blance to tell the rest of the world how to handle affairs inside their own borders.

Oh, and as far and our virtuous moralistis path: How about the native American Indians?



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
Actualy, wecomeinpeace, when the BBC went village to village they didn't get an entourage and were allowed to go around asking whatever they wanted. :-)

Do you honestly think that the BBC is allowed to go to any village that the CCP doesn't want them to see? To travel around and visit anywhere they like? To report anything the CCP doesn't want them to report? If they did, do you think BBC reporters would ever be granted visas back into China ever again? Why didn't the BBC visit the towns that are rioting with citizens being shot and beaten by police and CCP officials' thugs? The BBC is on probation as far as the CCP is concerned. Reporting in China, it's either play by the CCP's rules, or you don't play at all. Do you know why the BBC is blocked in China?


That was the whole point of the BBC show in fact, to display the Modern China compaired to the one during the 1980's and it was very different.

And this is the point that you just don't get. Nobody is denying that there hasn't been some level of reform in China, but the CCP is still leagues away from being anything close to a government that can claim to have any exemplary moral values, and is in absolutely in no position to tell anyone anything about how to handle international affairs and deal with terrorism. They don't know the first thing about dealing with their own problems without using violence and oppression. Are you seriously implying that the Western governments should start taking lessons in non-violent solutions to global problems from the CCP kingpins?


The average person on the street had a high level of understanding about Government, Democracy, etc, but cared more about crime than who was in power.

Funny, the people on the street and my friends here in China have a lot more to say about the corruption and despotism of the CCP than your BBC interviewees did. But hey, they have to do so behind closed doors.


There were several other things...

I'm sure there were...

So the point you're trying to make here is, since the CCP after 56 years of tyranny have now allowed some form of voting in one village where the people can vote between CCP guy A or CCP guy B to decide who gets to drive the tractor, that the CCP is now qualified to tell the rest of the world about dealing with terrorism and human rights, despite the fact that the CCP has borrowed a leaf from the U.S. government and taken it further by now using the same "terrorist" excuse to slaughter, imprison and torture people in Xin Jiang and Tibet, despite the fact that Chinese journalists who disagree with YOU and the CCP are imprisoned, despite the fact that the CCP is spending all of its funds on space exploration and other crap while hundreds of millions live in abject poverty, despite the fact that non-CCP-sponsored religions are outlawed and termed evil cults and their leaders and members are executed and imprisoned. Ohhhhh, I see your logic now.



What would you rather they do? Stay how they were or move on and do better for the people? Oh yes...they don't change, nope, not one bit.

You're either trying to put words in my mouth, or you're still not getting it. No one is saying that the U.S. government is infallible, no one is saying that the CCP hasn't instituted some reforms, and no one is saying that they shouldn't. Of course, any reform by those crooks is a good thing, but they are-...ahhhh forget it. I give up...wcip out.

[edit on 2005-9-11 by wecomeinpeace]



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 12:54 PM
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Do you know why the BBC is blocked in China?


BBC World TV is blocked because during a transmitted report about Hong Kong the also tacked on a piece about Falun Gong. Silly reason really...

However, that is only via one satelite, BBC World does get fed into China via two other "unofficial" sattelite feeds and BBC World Radio can be recieved in about 20 different cities in China.



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 01:01 PM
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They talk about Axis of Evil, well China is the Axel of Evil.

They have their hand in on helping every regime which is against American interests.

China's overseas policies kill Americans.








[edit on 9/11/2005 by bodebliss]



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 01:12 PM
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Odium, the CCP doesn't care about terrorism. Terrorism is good in the eyes of the CCP if it weakens the U.S. The CCP is merely using the anniversary of 9-11 to rub it in the faces of the American government and try to make themselves look rosy and smart in the eyes of the international community - kind of a "kick 'em while they're down" philosophy. Seems to be working to some extent...

I never said that what the CCP said was wrong, but we got off the topic when you jumped in and started defending them and trying to tell everyone how awesome and fluffy-nice they are. I can't stand by and watch tyranny be defended by someone who's seen a couple of BBC specials, while people are rotting in prison simply because they disagreed with those same views. I apologize if I come across as obnoxious or confrontational, but this is an issue that affects and has affected my family personally and directly.


Originally posted by stumason
BBC World TV is blocked because during a transmitted report about Hong Kong the also tacked on a piece about Falun Gong. Silly reason really...

However, that is only via one satelite, BBC World does get fed into China via two other "unofficial" sattelite feeds and BBC World Radio can be recieved in about 20 different cities in China.


Exactly my point. You either play their game, or you just don't play. The CCP open the gates a little until something enters or leaves that they don't like, then they close them up again.


From the BBC Annual Review 2004/5
'The access we were given for the season showed the progress that has been made,' says Lorna Ball, Head of Chinese Service. 'Nevertheless it remains difficult for our people in Beijing to cover stories outside Beijing or Shanghai because they first have to get permission to leave those cities. Until now the authorities have only permitted three resident BBC correspondents. Although attitudes are changing sometimes we still have problems obtaining an official response to stories that may be critical of China. But we got our first ministerial interview this year.'
...
For BBC Chinese, the radio broadcasts which in Mandarin are still routinely jammed in China, the aim is to increase audiences by forming partnerships with Chinese radio stations. 'China's jamming of our short-wave signals and blocking of our websites is a challenge requiring radical solutions,' says Abbas Nasir, Acting Head of Asia and the Pacific Region. 'Our strategy is to target the Chinese market with specially designed content both on radio and online while maintaining our commitment to news and current affairs coverage.'


[edit on 2005-9-11 by wecomeinpeace]



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 01:50 PM
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Actually, I was correcting people who use the same retoric as normal.

"China has the most terrorist attacks in there Nation."
"China kills the most people through execution."
"China tortures everyone."

China is changing for the better.
Attitudes are changing - your own sources say so.

This is the point, China is moving forwards not backwards.

Maybe your friends in China could bother to send you the reports? Could bother to explain the Social reforms? Could bother to explain what happens in those villages? [They vote on the laws not who gets in power.]

In fact, I am fairly sure the only people still locked up for being "Pro-Democratic" are the ones calling for the Government to be over-thrown and killed off...yet, I am sure America and the U.K. are pretty much bringing those laws into power?

Ministry of Labor and Social security have already began to create millions more jobs and get more people out of poverty. I do believe it has gone down nearly 1% in the last year.

The only thing people can display are minor problems that the Government are changing and use old examples.

Yes China invaded Nation's in the 1970's and 1960's as an act of aggression but then we have done the same and still do.



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
China is changing for the better.

This is the point, China is moving forwards not backwards.

You're starting to sound like a broken record. No one is denying that some minor reforms have occurred. I don't know how else to word it so that you'll understand that and move on to the actual point.


Maybe your friends in China could bother to send you the reports? Could bother to explain the Social reforms? Could bother to explain what happens in those villages?

What do you mean "send me the reports"? I live in China. I have 65 channels of CCP propaganda to tell me all about their wonderfulness, I know low-level CCP members personally. Maybe you should bother to get someone to send you something that doesn't paint the CCP as saints and ignore the actions that continue to contrast starkly with their claims of altruism and gentle, all-knowing benevolence.


In fact, I am fairly sure the only people still locked up for being "Pro-Democratic" are the ones calling for the Government to be over-thrown and killed off...yet, I am sure America and the U.K. are pretty much bringing those laws into power?

You're "fairly sure" only those who want to "kill" the government are being imprisoned. Well, when you've made sure, please come back and let us know how justified the CCP is in their persecution of journalists and people of religion.


Ministry of Labor and Social security have already began to create millions more jobs and get more people out of poverty. I do believe it has gone down nearly 1% in the last year.

The CCP takes credit for opening up China's market after they closed it themselves, for making money from the largest market in the world that everyone wants a piece of anyway, and for exploiting their near-endless labor resources with pathetic wages and little to no social welfare. Come to China and tell the laborers here about how the CCP cares for them so much and see what they say. You kow, as ridiculous as it may seem, many folks here look back on the Mao days with fondness because back then, at least the government made an attempt in the beginnning to look after the lao bai xing and adhere to the tenets of benevolent socialism.

And much of that money made goes into the CCP's own pockets, and the vast majority of it goes into useless cosmetic exercises to try to keep up with the Western affluence, while poorer Chinese people suffer, and are imprisoned when they complain - along with journalists who expose the truth, and people who try to practice religion that the CCP doesn't approve of.


The only thing people can display are minor problems that the Government are changing and use old examples.

The only thing you can display is minor, token reforms and then attempt to use that to nullify and ignore any and all suffering and injustice that occurs daily at the hands of the CCP.

This is my last post since this is getting annoying. Token reforms are offset by tramplings of countless basic human rights and rampant corruption, which despite your denials, outweigh any and all of these reforms by about a thousand to one, they certainly do not give the CCP despots grounds to start preaching to the rest of the world, and if you understood how things worked here, you'd know that these token reforms, as well as their economic advances, are motivated by the CCP's goal of retaining power, nothing more.

[edit on 2005-9-11 by wecomeinpeace]



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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Every problem you point out tends to exist in most Western Capitalist Democratic Nation's.

However, they are not doing anything about it or trying to fix it.



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by Souljah
"It is obvious that the war on terror can only be won by relieving peliminating the political, economic and social conditions under which terrorism and extremism breed and cooperating closely with the rest of the international community under the UN leadership."

Very Well Said!



Way to go China!


Riiight...is that why China does not have terrorist attacks?.....


But China may well use the Uzbekistan bombings to strengthen its hand in cracking down further on Muslim activists in resource-rich Xinjiang. In a report issued in January 2002, China said 200 violent incidents took place between 1990 and 2001. At a press conference this April 12, Xinjiang government Chairman Simayi Teliwardi said there had been no blasts or assassination incidents in Xinjiang in "recent years", a sign that China indeed may have the situation generally under control and that terrorist violence has declined.


Excerpted from.
www.atimes.com...

Could the execution of at least 600 people a year, that we know of and go reported...., be the way the Chinese deal with terrorists, or suspected terrorists in their own soil?....


China is using the "war on terror" to justify its longstanding repression of the rights of the Uighur community, according to a new report by Amnesty International. Many Uighurs flee to neighbouring countries, but growing numbers are being forcibly returned to China where they face torture and execution.


Excerpted from.
web.amnesty.org...


Is this why China glorified the terrorist attacks of 9/11 in the US?....


THE Chinese state-run propaganda machine is cashing in on the terror attacks in New York and Washington, producing books, films and video games glorifying the strikes as a humbling blow against an arrogant nation.

Video discs filled with lurid images along with dramatic opera music and even the theme from Jaws have flooded the nation's markets in the wake of the attacks.

Disc after disc bear the imprimatur of the Communist Party-controlled media. The most popular DVDs have been produced by the Xinhua information agency, Beijing Television and China Central Television.

Communist Party officials say President Jiang Zemin has obsessively watched and re-watched pictures of the aircraft crashing into the World Trade Centre. In the immediate aftermath of the attacks, workers at Beijing Television worked round-the-clock to produce a documentary they called Attack America.


Excerpted from.
www.portal.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2001/11/04/wchin04.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/11/04/ixhome.html


Is this why two Chinese officials mentioned in a book approved by the Chinese government that in Unconventional warfare they should use terrorists, such as Osama Bin Laden in striking such places as the WTC....and this was published two years before the attacks in the US....


Is there a connection between China and Osama bin Laden and his organization and the attacks on the US? No one can answer that question with certainty even though news stories claim that a connection exists. One fact seems certain, however: Al Qaeda leaders may have learned from the book "Unrestricted Warfare" to plan their attacks on the US. More than three years before the September 11 attacks, the two Chinese colonels predicted that an inferior adversary could defeat a more powerful country: in this case, the US.

"Whether it be intrusions of hackers, a major explosion at the World Trade Center, or a bombing attack by bin Laden, all of these greatly exceed the frequency bandwidths understood by the American military," the colonels say. "This is because they have never taken into consideration and have even refused to consider means that are contrary to tradition and to select measures of operation other than military means."


Excerpted from.
www.taipei.org...

Way to go China heh Souljah?......


[edit on 11-9-2005 by Muaddib]


Souljah is notorious for his anti-american, pro-communist homicide rhetoric, perhaps if souljah, and indeed most of europe did not have their heads filled with this crap in europe, they might be able to have a thought of their own. way to go souljah!



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 04:34 PM
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Yeah, Europe is awful.

Sweden with its low rate of tax, Free Health Care, fantastic Social Security system...list can go on.

Poor us.



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
Yeah, Europe is awful.

Sweden with its low rate of tax, Free Health Care, fantastic Social Security system...list can go on.

Poor us.


your small population is the only reason you have that, and i thought you just claim the west had the same trouble as china and isnt trying to fix it....which is it? are you changing your arguments to fit with what you "believe"? stop arguing just to argue, its rather obvious when you argue with a chinese person about their country based on "news" when they keep telling you the news is wrong about china, i dont see why you keep arguing.



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 06:45 PM
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Wecomeinpeace

I came into this article with one thought and mindset. Usually I am in agreement with many of the things you say but your stance in this thread surprised me. here's me thinking China was doing great saying what they said. But.....and its a big but, you have opened my eyes to another side of the issue and made me see things that were not as clear to me as before i read all your responses. For that i thank you. I appreciate the input from someone who lives it.


Rikimaru

I do not agree with everything Souljah says but at time Souljah shows a unique perspective to threads that make people think and see the other side of issues. Instead of attacking Souljah and being mean and nasty I tend to prefer to read and mull over what Souljah has to say because Souljahs input just as everyone elses is, is very valuable to ATS and ATSNN. Souljahs culture, life - where they have been and what they have done, and interpretations can be looked at as another facet of the uncut raw gem of ATS

[edit on 11-9-2005 by Mayet]



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 06:47 PM
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Actually, I said "most" so you might wish to read your own point.



Every problem you point out tends to exist in most Western Capitalist Democratic Nation's.


As far as I am concerned their are about three good Nation's, Sweden for it's Social System, Switzerland for its Government and Finland for its legal system.

However, I am not going to sit back and let people spread lies like many of them on here do. I'm sick of the attitude that "Everyone in China is tortured, has no freedom, can't speak out about communism or is locked away." in fact you'll find people on this site from China do just that and have yet to be taken to the Gulag...but we have to over-look that. Now don't we?



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 06:48 PM
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Also I am not from Sweden, so it's not "Your", I've been around enough places and lived in enough Nation's over my life and I don't see myself as even having a Nationality anymore.



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