Regardless of politics, Americans should be united on some things (mandatory RFID)

(Mods: if these articles are all already linked in one place, or if you feel this information is redundant, please remove this thread. It is not my wish to clutter the board or detract from other less redundant discussions).

I consider myself a fairly rational individual. I consider many things to be possible, but reserve judgment on whether something is plausible or probable unless there is overwhelming evidence in hand that can be demonstrated in a clear and undeniable fashion. For that reason, I must point out that this post should not serve as an indication that I adhere to or support any particular theory or version of events espoused by any group, organization, or person. Most of what I am suggesting herein consists of possibilities, without indicating any personal bias on my part toward plausibility or implausibility one way or the other.

Following this post are links to articles from mainstream, "reputable" (for whatever that word is worth to you) news organizations. I chose these because they reduce the potential of debunking or of being laughed off or ridiculed by those who only respect all things mainstream.

This is, to most of you, probably an obvious (or at the very least, commonly repeated) statement or belief by now. Nonetheless, I am posting today to suggest the possibility (without any bias on my part toward belief or doubt) that what many fear is true; that the federal government and the security apparatus responsible for protecting the United States of America MAY be engaged in a habitual and undaunted effort to establish a TIA-like (read: data mining and/or surveillance) system for the purpose of monitoring and more tightly controlling the population, and are using the War on Terror as justification.

Now, I know that seems obvious and entirely redundant to most of you. The suggestion is either firmly denied or immediately accepted by most members. I am somewhere in the middle of the road on this. Nonetheless, the possibility remains. I haven't seen any other posts which compile these articles (or articles like them) in a single place or in chronological order, and that is the first reason for this post. Please read them carefully (if you haven't already) and then continue reading what I have to say. I thank you for indulging me and I apologize for the length of what probably seems like an obvious or redundant post - but please bear with me.

Polls Indicated Americans Favored National ID Cards Following September 11 Attacks:
archives.cnn.com...

Operation TIPS (Terrorism Information and Prevention System) Concerns:
archives.cnn.com...
archives.cnn.com...

Congress Prohibits Operation TIPS and National ID Creation:
www.aclu.org...

Total Information Awareness (TIA) Development Concerns:
archives.cnn.com...

Further Attempts at Data Mining System Creation Despite TIA's Congressional Dismantling:
www.cnn.com...

States Pull Out of "MATRIX" Data Mining System:
www.cnn.com...

Examples of RFID Chip Use:
www.cnn.com...

FDA Approves RFID Chip Implantation:
news.com.com...

Congress Passes Intelligence Reform Bill Establishing National Intelligence Director and Requiring New Standards for DMV Licenses and Birth Certificates: www.cnn.com...

Biometric Passports Being, or Soon to Be, Adopted by Many Countries Throughout the World:
www.cnn.com...

Social Security Card Overhaul Proposed:
www.cnn.com...

Medical RFID Article:
news.bbc.co.uk...

Concerns Over Recently Passed "Real ID" Act:
www.cnn.com...

Real ID Act FAQ:
news.com.com...

Thanks.

The above, depending on who you are, will either represent a tireless effort on the part of our government and defense leadership to protect us from potential and present threats, or a systematic and determined effort to establish a police state. I myself prefer to reserve judgment one way or the other for the time being.

Regardless of how you interpret the true nature of a TIA-like data mining system, the fact remains that, whatever it's purpose, such a system has been tirelessly pursued irrespective of privacy concerns, congressional prohibitions, and lawsuits. It seems inevitable that such a system will indeed be established, if it hasn't already.

Now, to the second and main point of my post. As most of you know by now, the 'Real ID Act' of 2005 which has been passed requires that by 2008 new standards for DMV issued ID cards be met by all states. Much has been made of the fact that this act will require all citizens to display this new ID card in order to gain access to bank transactions, government buildings, and airlines, as well as the fact that it grants the Homeland Security Dpt the power to establish further guidelines and requirements as it sees fit in the future. I am, again, in the middle of the road on that. However, there is one aspect of this act which many overlook and which concerns me (it is also the reason for my perhaps seemingly inexplicable inclusion of RFID tech articles in the above links). It is the requirement that these cards be, without exception, machine readable via a uniform standard which is to be determined by the Dpt of Homeland Security, and that the Dpt of Homeland Security has repeatedly stated that it's preference leans towards RFID tags for these new ID cards.

So, what's the big deal, you may ask? While not legally mandatory, these cards will be effectively mandatory. Now, consider the extremely thin line that will exist between these "effectively mandatory" cards and "effectively mandatory" RFID chip implantation. All that would be required are an event or proclamation justifying a new policy stating that cards - which can be stolen, lost, handed off to terrorists, etc. - are not a secure enough form of identification. It would be a simple matter then (legally speaking) given the sweeping powers our leaders now enjoy, to replace ID cards with ID chips. The RFID reader infrastructure would already exist throughout the country, because the cards required from 2008 on are required to be machine readable - and the Homeland Security Dpt's stated preferred uniform standard for this function is an RFID tag.

Now, as stated, I am undecided about many policies and events that have sprung to life in the years since 9-11. However, irrespective of religious, political, or ethical stance, I would be forced to regard the mandatory implantation of human beings with RFID chips as intolerable and unethical. This should not be an issue that polarizes us. Concern should not be limited to one political party, religious group, ethical camp, etc. Whether you are a supporter of the security steps being taken or not, I am certain that you would most likely not agree to mandatory chipping of American citizens. I'm not talking about someone choosing to avail themselves of a potentially helpful technology. I'm talking about mandatory implantation for the sake of access to bank transactions, travel, and more. It would be easy - too easy - for this to be made policy if RFID tags become the standard used for DMV issued IDs.

My ultimate point is this:
Too often political partisanship or moral polarization divides the only people who are, ultimately, more responsible than our leaders for the policies that we must live under: the people of this nation. The purpose of this post is to point out that irrespective of all other elements of the legal measures being taken to "protect" us, or how we feel about them, the potential for this particular development should be loathsome and frightening to us all. Only through unity will things such as this be effectively opposed. That is all I have to say.

Thanks for reading, and I apologize if I've simply stated the obvious or wasted your time.

[edit on 10-9-2005 by AceWombat04]

This is great stuff. Worry less about the Moderators as why wouldn't they be behind this stuff?

Good work.

Dallas

yes when you put it that way it does look like it is moving to become a police state.

simply having an id chip in someone doesnt prevent them from becoming a terrorist.

you cant tell what they are thinking.

if they were working in a group and only one person did one thing, and had only physical contact with each other, it wouldnt be possile to know if they are making a bomb or what

it seams a very much over zealous, to me.

still people could sneak in to the country,

also these chips wont have photo id.

all you need to do to steal a chip is cut someone open

it isnt impossible

ACE all i can say is that i totally agree with you , having a readily scanable national ID card is one thing, but to think that i might be forced to take an injection at some future date ,with something that will transmit all my personal data is a totally other thing, I doubt you are going to get many people openly debating you on this subject. the articles that you posted links for were very informative, I knew about the I.D. card but not about the fact the it is actually up to Big Brother to decide how to go about it. I don't want to imagine some poor sucker having all his data scanned but some crook readilly there to creat an even easier false identification for people who would be in need of it.

and the other implications mentioned in those articles is appalling, its bad enough that the government will know where i'm at at all times, but to know that some states sell citizens private information is what really scares me, identity theft will reach a whole new level.

I don't know how any person calling themselves a american citizen could contemplate using the RFID under any circumstances. This obviously goes against our freedoms and in no way helps protect us. What are we going to do tell the world any person coming into the US gets a trackable ID planted into them?

In my opinion any person caught pushing this farther towards legal should be shot or hung. To me this is far far worse then murder. I'd also like to know where I can get my hands on whatever our "leaders" are smoking cause its some damn good stuff.



[edit on 11-9-2005 by Xerrog]

1. We have a government which lies to the people who die in its wars
2. We have a media unwilling to show this, and many other things
3. We have a media owned and controlled by very people. And no law against bias, (only fabrication of the truth) and no law against media owners doing deals with politicians (unless money changes hands for specific pieces of legislation).
4. We have a post-pass-the-post voting system in which only a strong majority can have an influence (winner takes all).
5. We have a proletarian public which is that majority. One that for the most part is apolitical. More intelligent when it comes to football and nightclubs than who runs the world or is destroying the earth we live on.
6. Those who know what's going on feel that there is nothing they can do and for the most part are probably right.
7. We have a media which ether by design or free market encourages people to be non-political. Which mix’s bias, news and pornography together and sells this to people who don't know what propaganda means other than it is something which is "bad". No wonder then why they are inert as to how it might be delivered.
8. By accident or design we have a system which uses the social pressure of political correctness to stop people from speaking their minds, and a social environment which encourages you not to use your mind.
9. We have a government which is only in power because of the deals it makes with the people it knows; the media and the people who own it and support those who do. Unquestionably in the minds of many we have a "democratic system" where time and time again the only winners are humans engulfed in "position" and "ego". They are damaged persons who if we didn’t know we would call "freaks" and they themselves would have the same outlook of compassion towards us.

All of this is frustrated by a few archaic pieces of legislation that grant us "rights". So we should be afraid when we talk of giving such wicked, wicked people more access and information to the activities of our daily lives because we don't know what they will do.
Look at the history of the leaders of men and you will see that the political winners are indeed wicked. Bad, bad and bad again. The odd exception one in 20 of the time (if that). And today our world is going backwards in time not forward when it comes to the people and their relation with freedom. This “matrix system” will only further how backward we go in our journey forward in physical time.

I come from a more libertarian point of view on this issue. The government has no right to know who I am and has no need to know who I am. A driver's license I can understand. But you have to have a government-issued ID just to ship a package now. That's ridiculous.

It will do nothing to stop fraud and it will do nothing to stop terrorism.

The alleged 9/11 hijackers all had legitimate documentation.
People can always figure out a way to get around new technological hurdles and fake the IDs.

And, while this is an often said statement, it's also in important one:
Even if this current administration only intends to use this for good, who's to say 10 years down the road there won't be an administration who wants to exploit it?

[edit on 17-9-2005 by LoganCale]

It won't be hard to sell the RFID to the masses. Wrap it up in red, white and blue, make it a family thing, free tickets to nascar or wwf or make it mandatory when you buy gasoline. Have it endorsed by Falwell and Robertson. No Problem.

i'm not one for Biblical prophecy but damn.....

It really is a brave new world.

Very good AceWombat!



[edit on 17-9-2005 by whaaa]