what caused the change between the way God acted in-between the two testaments???

in the old testament, God was "mean" in my eyes...

He killed people, (yes He did haha) and flooded the world, and destroyed two cities and etc...

then, in the new testament, He was forgiving and didn't kill anything...

the old testament is mainly about God punishing bad people...

this is part of the jewish religion...

the new testament is mainly about God forgiving people...

this is part of the christian religion...

is the reason behind the way God acted so differently in the two testaments because the two testaments are actually two different religions???

any help would be great...

thanks...

in the OT there is a cycle of sinning, judgement, repentance and forgivness. It is especially apparent in the book of Judges. In the OT it is about promised fufilled, and the great news that fufilled promise brings to us and what we can expect to happen.

The OT belivers were looking for Jesus to come, the NT belivers know he has come, and will bring us to salvation.

Might want to read the bible again and try to focus more on the cycle, then just the bad nasty parts

Originally posted by Jehosephat
in the OT there is a cycle of sinning, judgement, repentance and forgivness. It is especially apparent in the book of Judges. In the OT it is about promised fufilled, and the great news that fufilled promise brings to us and what we can expect to happen.

The OT belivers were looking for Jesus to come, the NT belivers know he has come, and will bring us to salvation.

Might want to read the bible again and try to focus more on the cycle, then just the bad nasty parts

o0o yes...

i knew this...

but why is God not forgiving (or as forgiving) in the OT as He is in the NT???

Originally posted by they see ALL
is the reason behind the way God acted so differently in the two testaments because the two testaments are actually two different religions???

Civilization progressed 800 years between the two writings. Not only that, but the OT was the fascist religion of Israel, whereas the NT was Greek and had to shed the chosen race business.

You can never resolve this issue as long as you view the Bible as something more than the writings of men.

Hope that helps.

God didn't change. God still hates sin and still judges the sinner. The judgements he threw down in the OT are nothing in comparison to the judgements he will soon throw down in these last days.

God hasn't changed one little bit.



James

If you think Jesus's message of repentance is foreign, please the ENTIRE chapter of ezekiel 18. ill just post the link and one verse.

Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

www.blueletterbible.org...

Jer 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
Jer 18:10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

If you think that isreal wouldnt allow converts before Jesus, please read Isiah, (and also read about the future plan. some gentiles will one day be preists)
Isa 66:21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Jer 3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

Originally posted by NuTroll
If you think Jesus's message of repentance is foreign

i don't...

Originally posted by they see ALL
in the old testament, God was "mean" in my eyes...

He killed people, (yes He did haha) and flooded the world, and destroyed two cities and etc...

then, in the new testament, He was forgiving and didn't kill anything...

the old testament is mainly about God punishing bad people...

this is part of the jewish religion...

the new testament is mainly about God forgiving people...

this is part of the christian religion...

is the reason behind the way God acted so differently in the two testaments because the two testaments are actually two different religions???

any help would be great...

thanks...

Perhaps it was humanities perspective that changed.

Perhaps GOD utilized creation to evolve.

[color=#FF0000]For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
--Leviticus 17:11 KJV

According to the Hebrew:

[color=#FF0000]For the nephesh (breath of life) of the basar (body or person) is in the dam (literally--lifeblood and by analogy--the juice of the grape): and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an kaphar (literally--to cover and figuratively--to expiate or condone, to placate or cancel) for your nephesh: for it is the dam that maketh an kaphar for the nephesh.

Everyone criticizes the old testament laws because they involve animal sacrifices to atone for 'sins.' Yet, if you've ever done any research about ancient ruins and temples that have been found in modern times, just about every temple found has a flat slab or platform somewhere at the site--it seems commonly agreed among those that study these things that these places are sacrificial altars of some sort of live sacrifice, either human or animal. From what I've read, most of them are believed to have been for human sacrifices, most often believed to be virgins or babies (innocent blood).

Why did they do this? There surely had to be a reason for such a barbaric practice--especially to the innocent rather than the criminals of the society. A couple of times it is mentioned in scripture about a certain idolatrous practice that had the followers burning their children in sacrifice to another god.

2 Kings 17:31, 23:9-10

In 2 Chronicles it tells of Manasseh, who was one of the worst kings who ruled over the Israelites. It says

[color=#3366FF]For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.
Also he built altars in the house of the LORD, whereof the LORD had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be for ever. And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD.
And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom:also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
--2 Chronicles 33:3-6 KJV

Then it says:

[color=#006600]So Manasseh made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to err, and to do worse than the heathen, whom the LORD had destroyed before the children of Israel.
--2 Chronicles 33:9 KJV

Obviously God had a reason for the laws He gave to Moses about these things--a very good one, not a mean or petty reason. Everyone wants to say God is sick and cruel for these things, but if one reads with an open mind it is plain to see that God provided ways to keep His people from having to sacrifice their loved ones--as the heathen all around obviously did, for their gods.

But why would such a thing be required at all?

God is the creator of both creation as well as the laws (principles) that govern all of it--and the main objective appears to be maintaining a balance--the scales of justice must be kept in equilibrium. What got them off kilter?

Back to Cain and Abel:

And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;--Genesis 4:8-11 KJV

God says to Cain, 'what have you done?' Cain upset the balance by shedding the blood of his innocent brother. He caused the life blood of Abel to be 'received' by the ground, the earth then cried out to God. (stick with me, this is rather allegorical) Well, the word translated 'received', in the Hebrew is actually a word (laqash) which can also mean 'buy.'

Now, we know that our bodies are said to have been made of the dust--which is, of course, the earth. And if our souls, our 'life' is carried in our blood, when Abel's blood spilt into the ground, making the ground no longer 'pure', somehow the situation rendered both a debt that had to be repaid somehow to the earth, in order to ransom all the souls that would be held captive in the dust they were made from. God's breath is what joins with the dust in our bodies, making the individual soul. So it follows that the part of us that belongs to God was also held ransom, since it was held in the life blood.

That's why the bible is full of symbologies in the way of 'redemption' 'paying for our sins' 'lifting the curse.'

Also, remember when Noah got off the ark, God gave him some rules--one being that any man that shed another man's blood would be expected to repay that with his own blood. This is the root of the 'eye for an eye' principle, and is basically what many people call 'karma.' Karma is the way the scales are kept in balance on a physical level--and there is no way any one of us could ever be good enough to our fellow man to get 'out of karmic debt' and get free of the cycle of life and death.

The reason for the blood being 'unclean' in the first place is another story--too involved to get off topic with it here. But suffice it to say this is the also the reason for all the dietary laws and the not mingling with other races of people in the OT. The blood of Israel had to be kept pure enough to provide for the birth of Messiah--who was appointed before the foundation of the world to be the sacrifice which would redeem the captive souls from the earth's reign. And until that time, there were strict rules in place just to keep everyone's nose clean until the time it would no longer matter--for anyone.

Isaiah told of what Messiah would do:

[color=#FF6600] The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Isaiah 61:1

The 'meek' means those who, unlike Cain, would not rise up and slay their brethren. And we are all captives in our fleshly prisons, waiting until the day we will be set free. We have been paid for, and are just waiting for the return of He who has redeemed us to reclaim us, in whole, from the earth and her inevitable fleshly death which with we are clothed (and have been ever since Adam and Eve were first made skins for coats by the LORD).

Paul explains a little bit in the 4th chapter of Galatians how things changed. Think of humanity as a minor child in the OT, required to follow the parent's rules for their own safety and benefit until the time they could be safely let on their own--which came by way of Christ.

Remember that God makes His laws as principles to rule the universe and all of creation in an orderly and just manner for all time, and beyond time, even. He did all of it for our benefit--and regardless of how it might seem sometimes in the present time, God didn't make a single one of us in order to hurt us in any permanent fashion. In the end, how it really is will be revealed to everyone, then everyone will understand. A father isn't always understood or
loved by his children, but a good and loving father who makes his decisions for the best end for his children and not himself is often the one who seems mean or unfair to a child, but when grown, the adult is grateful that the father put love and forethought ahead of being understood and popular with his kids.

Proverbs:

[color=#339999]Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
-- 22:6 KJV

Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
-- 22:15 KJV


[edit on 9/11/2005 by queenannie38]

[edit on 9/11/2005 by queenannie38]

You also have to consider the Gnostic point of view. The Gnostics (not modern ones) believe that the God in the old testament and the God in the new testament are actually different Gods. One actually a Demi-God (OT), the other the "true" God. (NT) The Demi-God is believed to have created this "flawed" or "evil" universe and Earth.

That's a small view on Classical Gnostic beliefs although many modern Gnostics have nothing to do with them.

queenannie38...

great post...

you know alot about this subject (the christian religion)...

where did you learn all this???

The gnostic POV, in this case, isn't really 'gnosis' in the true sense of the word--unless you approach it with the understanding that in the Father is unity, therefore in the division of the house that spurred the creation of man as a creature born into a dualistic perspective which dominated the OT (where spirit and flesh were separated by the veil on the entrance to the holy of holies) there was man and satan on the outside and Yod He Vav He inside the holiest place. But that's pretty deep for this particular question.
The LORD being the demiurge defeats the whole fundamental dualistic belief system of the gnostics in that sense--because in the OT there was not mention of the Father in the way brought to the minds of the people in the OT.
Personal revelation (in each soul) supported by scripture shows that Yehoshua (which means Yod He Vav He delivers) was the Spirit of the OT God in the fleshly body of the son of Mary. That's why He was 'Immanuel' (God with us) and the whole principle behind the crucifixion--the Pharisees did not recognize that the one they accused under the guidelines of their laws was the very One who first gave Moses those laws on Sinai:

And Moses said to God, Behold, when I come to the sons of Israel, and shall say to them, The God of your fathers has sent me to you, and they shall say to me, What is His name? What shall I say to them? And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM. And He said, So you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you. And God said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, Jehovah the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My title from generation to generation.
--Exodus 3:13-15 MKJV

Yehoshua speaking to the Pharisees:

Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for if you do not believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins.--John 8:24 MKJV

Then Jesus said to them, When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you shall know that I AM, and that I do nothing of Myself, but as My Father has taught Me, I speak these things.
--John 8:28 MKJV

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and He saw and was glad. Then the Jews said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham? Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM! Then they too k up stones to throw at Him. But Jesus hid Himself and went forth out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and passed on by.
--John 8:56-59 MKJV


The last book of the OT also reveals this:

Behold, I will send My messenger, and He will clear the way before Me. And Jehovah, whom you seek, shall suddenly come to His temple, even the Angel of the Covenant, in whom you delight. Behold, He comes, says Jehovah of Hosts.
--Malachi 3:1

And I will come near you to judgment. And I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those who extort from the hired laborer's wages, and turning away the widow, and the orphan, the alien, and not fearing Me, says Jehovah of Hosts.
--Malachi 3:5


Paul said:

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
--Colossians 1:12-17 KJV

Isaiah wrote:

I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
--Isaiah 44:22-24 KJV

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
--Isaiah 43:10-11 KJV

Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships. I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
--Isaiah 43:14-15 KJV

Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
--Isaiah 43:18-19 KJV




[edit on 9/11/2005 by queenannie38]

Originally posted by they see ALL
queenannie38...

great post...

I thank my Father (and yours) that you heard my words with an open mind--search the scriptures and discover these things for yourself. The learning never ends!

you know alot about this subject (the christian religion)...

Actually, I do know quite a bit about the 'christian religion' having attended church every week from the age of around 4 or 5 until 18. But this subject is not the christian religion--it's not religion at all. It's just truth and the reason it seems so evasive for many people is because they trust not in God to lead them to the truth, but rather the men who say they are of God--religious men.

Psalms 118:8 is the exact center verse of the bible--it's main support, so to speak:
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

where did you learn all this???

Well, I sure didn't get it from listening to sermons. I haven't always understood so clearly--for most of my life all I held fast to was

• God doesn't lie
  
• tried to love my neighbor the best I could (don't judge, don't seek revenge for hurts)
  
• a search for God's truth--not man's, not my own opinion in order to find false comfort in delusions, but rather what God actually meant for me to know--and I searched all the time in all places--and in the end wound back up with my nose in my bible
  
• my single prayer to God was just 'show me what you want me to know, please don't let me disappoint you'
  

Then, when these understandings began to emerge, I realized that is really all God asks of us--trust Him to keep you--He will surely do as He promised, love everyone (don't recompense evil with evil--it is imperative that we turn the other cheek), and above all, do not listen to another person instead of listening to God. God doesn't speak out loud--but we all have His voice inside our hearts--and society and religion tell us not to listen within to 'ourselves' yet we are told God is within us.

Remember these things and you will hear Him, too:

• If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. --John 15:7
  
• Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. --John 16:13
  
• Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. --John 14:23
  

What Peter said is absolutely true and trustworthy:
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
--2 Peter 1:19-21 KJV

'Private interpretation' means not apart from the ideas of other men--it means apart from the guidance of the spirit. And though the governing religious bodies have convinced many, over the centuries, that a man is not able to understand the scripture without the 'church fathers' direction--that is the opposite of the truth. Their teachings cannot be trusted since when compared with the bible it is obvious they are not trusting in the spirit but rather their religion.

Christ came for all of us--not just 'christians'. No one has exclusive right to salvation or the truth of God--Christ is the Savior of the World!

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
--Romans 3:22

what caused the change between the way God acted in-between the two testaments???

Humanities collective perceptions.