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Why was the MiG-15 codenamed 'Fagot' by NATO?

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posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 07:28 PM
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I am a military aircraft buff, and I thought there was little I didn't know about military aircraft, until a few years ago when I visited the Miramar Flying Leathernecks Museum and saw a MiG-15 Fagot on display. I knew about the MiG-15, but had no idea NATO had codenamed it the Fagot, and I'm wondering why. Anybody buffer than me on military aircraft have a straight answer for this one? No I am not trying to be funny, so don't make any queer jokes.




MIKOYAN-GUREVICH MIG-15 “FAGOT”
German and Russian designers developed the MIG-15 in 1946 – 1947. The initial aircraft did not have adequate power until the British Government decided to supply the Soviet Union with a batch of Rolls Royce Nene Turbojet engines. The MIG-15 was built in China, Russia and Poland. The MIG-15s airspeed and maneuverability surprised allies when it made its debut during the Korean War. The MIG-15 had a better climb rate, ceiling and acceleration than Allied aircraft at the beginning of the war.
SPECIFICATIONS
WING SPAN 33’1”
WING AREA 225 SQ FT
LENGTH 36’ 3”
HEIGHT 11’ 1”
EMPTY WEIGHT 8, 320 LBS
GROSS WEIGHT 11,270 LBS
ENGINE ` RD-45
THRUST 5,000 LBS
MAX SPEED 669 MPH
CLIMB 10,100 FEET PER MINUTE
SERVICE CEILING 51,000 FT
ARMAMENT 1 x 37mm CANNON
2 x23mm CANNONS
2 x550 LBS BOMBS

www.flyingleathernecks.org...




posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 07:34 PM
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Could it be because it looks like a lit cigarette?
A Britishism?



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 07:36 PM
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NATA designated new Soviet fighters with "F" code names. Fencer, foxhout, foxbat etc etc etc.

I think you have confused fagot: NOUN:

A bundle of twigs, sticks, or branches bound together.
A bundle of pieces of iron or steel to be welded or hammered into bars.

Middle English, from Old French, from Old Provençal, possibly from Vulgar Latin *facus, from Greek phakelos, bundle

With faggot which a variant of the same word and can be used as derogatory term. in addition to being used as above.

education.yahoo.com...



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 07:39 PM
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Yeah, I think that fagot refering to homosexuals is a more recent trend. I figure it was probably closer to cigarretes. And besides, seing as NATO classified all the fighters under an F name, you've only got so many options. That and I think they save the cool sounding names for better fighters. Notice how MiG-21 is Fishbed, but Su-27 gets to be Flanker.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 07:41 PM
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Fagot is a legitimate term for a bundle of twigs - it was also slang for a cigarette before it was slang for homosexual.
What does does a bundle of twigs have to do with a fighter aircraft?
Nothing.
Only that it is a word that starts with "F" just like "Fulcrum", "Flogger" and "Foxbat"... all NATO designations for Russian fighter aircraft.

Natalie~



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 07:51 PM
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The one in the pic, looks like a ciggie..

Keep in mind I am aeronautically challenged.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 07:54 PM
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originally posted by FredT
A bundle of pieces of iron or steel to be welded or hammered into bars.


Maybe that's it. I have somewhat of a personal interest because my dad was a Flying Leatherneck with VMF-311 flying F9-F5's out of Pohang, Korea in 1954, and I'm pretty sure he came up against a couple of them.

Thanks for the interest and responses.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 08:35 PM
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Why is my life so full of weird coincidences? I don't expect anybody here to be able to answer that, but just in case, check out this lighter.

front



and back



And why, when I have avidly followed military aircraft all my life, did I just find this out a few years ago?



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 08:57 PM
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Looks like the old F-86 Sabre, but didn't have the lip over the nose-intake.



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 09:34 PM
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The Sabre was the first US aircraft to really gain superiority over the MiG-15, if I am not mistaken. The P-80 Shooting Star was underpowered for the contest, I think. Until the Sabre came along, if you came up against the MiG-15 in any other US jet and you weren't a much better pilot than the other guy, you were in a lot of trouble. The Sabre was an Air Force bird, as well, and I remember my dad telling me he was really upset that it was John Glenn who got to go fly one with the blue suits while he still had to make do with his F9-F5 Pantherjet. Good thing he was an excellent pilot, going on to do flight checks for the test pilots at Edwards. His one big disappointment was not getting into the space program because he was an inch too tall. John one-upped him on that too, I guess.

Anybody remember the old fighter pilot song "Throw a nickel on the grass"?

'I was cruising down MiG Alley doing 6 and 24, when the call came from the Major, Oh won't you save me, Sir! Got three flak holes in my wingtip, my tanks ain't got no gas, Mayday, Mayday, Mayday! I got 6 MiGs on my a$$!

O' hallelujah, O' hallelujah, throw a nickel on the grass, save a fighter pilot's a$$,

O' hallelujah, O' hallelujah, throw a nickel on the grass and you'll be saved.'

The nickel on the grass part was something fighter pilots did, throwing nickels on the grass in front of their O' Clubs in homage to those lost, and in hopes of being spared themselves. Beers were a nickel at the O' Clubs back then, so it was like buying a lost buddy a cold one.




[edit on 9-9-2005 by Icarus Rising]



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 09:59 PM
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I must say.
This stuff is interesting, I need to hang out here more..
I'll just listen..ok with you wingnuts?

Icarus, that lighter...what's the first word on the backside..
And isn't it for lighting, you know...cigarettes?



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 10:08 PM
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The first word is Bob, and that is my Dad's signature, and that was his squadron lighter from VMF-311 back in '54. Please don't make fun of my last name. I prefer to think of it as 'bundle of iron' because that's what I try to be in my life. I have been hammered a few times.




posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 10:12 PM
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ok, I won't make fun.
"For the hundreth time..
It's pronounced FAY-jo..."
LOL



posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 10:37 PM
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Really, its ok, joke away. I've developed a pretty thick skin about it, and I wouldn't insult my dear departed Da's memory by changing it one bit. It helps that I go 6'5" and about 280 lbs, so people don't say much to my face. What they say behind my back is no concern of mine, I have a son to prove I'm at least bi.

And its Fah-GO, smart aleck, although my Dad pronounced it straight ahead Anglo, and dared anyone to say a word.



[edit on 9-9-2005 by Icarus Rising]



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 12:14 AM
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I'd like to suggest that it's codename 'Fagot' was named by a British person....

.....nothing to do with being gay......

but simply a 'fagot' in the UK is a type of meatball!!! (especially popular during the war years and up until the early 70's)



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 02:33 AM
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No idea... BUt the theory about the cigarette works for me...



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 12:39 PM
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A British meatball is a faggot, with two 'Gs' and Fagot does mean a bundle (of sticks or iron) and is NOT pronounced with a silent 't'. If you are looking for a MiG that is pronounced 'fah-go' then look no further than the MiG-9 Fargo

The NATO reporting name system for Russian and Chinese aircraft was launched in 1954 and as far as aeroplanes were concerned it was decided, apart from F for fighters, B for bombers etc, that propeller driven types would recieve a single syllable name (ie Bear) while Jets would have two syllables (ie Fishbed). It was also generally agreed at this time that names assigned would be deliberately uncomplimentary, hence no "Braveheart" bomber or "Fearless" fighter (although the similar but much less complimentary Faithless was assigned in the '60's).

Instead you get the likes of "Fishpot" and the lumbering sounding "Bounder". Indeed the reporting name of the Il-28 was changed from "Butcher" to the much tamer sounding "Beagle" for this very reason in the early days of the system.

Incidentally, it may not be widely known here but the MiG 21 and Sukhoi Su-9 were assigned the similar reporting names of Fishbed and Fishpot because it was first thought that they were both sister designs from Sukhoi.

It was also believed that the swept wing Mikoyan Ye-2A, which used the same fuselage as the Fishbed, was the MiG 21 that had gone into widespread service rather than being the one off prototype it really was.

Even when the Fishbeds parentage wasa sorted out by 1962 it was thought that the Faceplate was the MiG 21 and the Fishbed the MiG 23.

[edit on 14-10-2005 by waynos]



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 03:44 PM
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Fagot does mean a bundle (of sticks or iron) and is NOT pronounced with a silent 't'. If you are looking for a MiG that is pronounced 'fah-go'


As I stated earlier, my dad did pronounce his name with the 't'. Not silent like I do. I pronounced my name with the 't' until about '73. It was a little disconcerting, like I said, and it still gets pronounced the old way on occasion, mostly by shallow jokesters. It doesn't really bother me unless it happens over and over.



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 04:09 PM
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deleted text because I just looked up the thread and realised something;


regarding the first paragraph of this post, I think I missed a bit of the thread earlier, re the lighter, am I to take it that your surname is Fagot, and THAT is what you are referring to by changing the pronunciation? Not that you choose to call the MiG 15 "Fah go", but yourself? If so of course it all makes sense, I didn't realise it before.

[edit on 14-10-2005 by waynos]



posted on Oct, 14 2005 @ 05:02 PM
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A quick search, and I learn something new:

Soviet Aircraft Codenames


...To rectify the situation, the Air Standards Coordinating Committee (ASCC) composed of the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand adopted a system similar to that used during World War II to identify Japanese aircraft. This new system, devised in 1954, assigned each Soviet vehicle a name according to its primary mission:...
www.aerospaceweb.org...


Everyone calls them NATO codenames, but it appears to be ASCC instead.
I believe NATO was the first to require the usage of the system.

I didn't realize that the two syllable names indicated jet aircraft.

Long list of Soviet designations:
www.designation-systems.net...
Background of WW2 aircraft codenames:
www.warbirdforum.com...

As to the name definition...
The codenames came out in 1954. Just before that, a Mig-15 captured in 1951, was test flown in 1953, by Chuck Yeager at Kadena AFB in Okinawa.



....in wretched weather, he had to wring out what he called a “flying booby trap”–an unforgiving craft, susceptible to unexpected pitch-ups, fatal spins, and a host of other problems.
www.chuckyeager.com...


It was a terrible aircraft, which tends to the definition of "a bundle of iron or sticks" To support that, I remember an old classified manual, that described the construction of the Mig-15. It was written as a humorous "backyard" construction manual. Apparently USAF didn't think much of the Mig-15.

Google Mig-15 yeager Tons of interesting reading.
www.google.com...



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