Travesty at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, page 1

Travesty at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, page

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Topic started on 5-9-2003 @ 10:18 AM by astrocreep

For sometime now we have all been talking about the government's intrusion into the rights of the people. I thought I'd detail an example a gives some links to more information. Some of this story is pretty graphic and not for the sqeamish.

www.shadeslanding.com...

"Weaver had been approached by an informant to the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms) to sell him sawed off shot-guns. Weaver apparently relented after several times telling the informant no. He sold two shot-guns to the informant in October of 1989. The shot guns sold to the informant according to the FBI were a mere 1/4" short of the legal barrel length for shot-guns. Weaver contends they were perfectly legal at the time he sold them to the informant.

Weaver was given bogus information on when to appear in court on the weapons charges. Rather than correcting the error, the Federal officials declared him a fugitive.

However, a Federal Judge ruled after the siege at Ruby Ridge that the weapons charges amounted to entrapment by the FBI. Weaver had been sent erroneous information on when to appear for his court date - in what appeared to be a deliberate attempt by Federal authorities to initiate the confrontation. It would have been a simple matter to correct the error and give Mr. Weaver another chance to appear. That in part is why the Federal Judge ruled the gun charges amounted to entrapment.

On August 21st, 1992, deputy marshals botched a surveillance attempt after entering the Weaver property in fatigues and facial camo. They were armed with night vision devices and fully automatic "assault" weapons. Their orders were to shoot the family dog as the dog would make it difficult to continue their surveillance. The family dog caught wind of the intruders and was shot by one of the marshals (according to published reports, that Marshall was Art Roderick).

Weaver's son Sammy fired back with his Mini-14 rifle. Randy Weaver was shooting his shotgun into the air and screaming for Sammy to return to the cabin. As Sammy turned to run, he was shot in the back and with a 9mm slug that ripped through his arm nearly severing it from his body. It was then that Harris returned fire apparently killing the U.S. Marshall. The FBI were called to the scene the next day.

That day (August 22nd) an FBI sharpshooter shot Weaver's wife Vicki as she stood with an infant in her arms in the doorway of her cabin. The sharpshooter had contended (up until the time Congressional and Senate hearings began) that he had been aiming at an armed man (later said to be Harris) who was threatening a helicopter. That same sharpshooter is now invoking the Fifth Amendment against self-incrimination as he took the stand last week in the Senate hearings on Ruby Ridge.

Randy Weaver had originally gone outside his cabin to a shed which held the body of his now dead son Sammy. As he was opening the shed, sharpshooter Lon Horiuchi shot Weaver in the right shoulder. Vicki Weaver went to the door cradling their 10 month old in one arm as she held the door open for Harris, Weaver and daughter to hurry through and take cover. The second shot shattered the window hitting Vicki in the throat. The bullet passed through her face and wounded Harris.

Subsequent testimony at the Weaver trial about the days that followed the shooting of Vicki and Sammy is even more disturbing. It was disclosed that the FBI would taunt Weaver, knowing that his wife and son were dead, by blasting a loud speaker towards the cabin with sayings such as "Good morning Mrs. Weaver - we're having pancakes, what are you having for breakfast?"

i2i.org...

"Even Horiuchi�s version of the facts shows that he violated the rules. After the shooting, Horiuchi drew a diagram of the target he had aimed at. His drawing shows that he was aiming at a part of the door approximately ten inches above where he thought 16-year-old Sara Weaver was crouching. She wasn�t there, to be sure; but that�s where Lon Horiuchi was aiming -- just above the head of someone the rules of engagement prohibited him from endangering.

And when he fired, in violation of the rules of engagement, he killed Vicki Weaver and injured Kevin Harris.

This is the basis for the manslaughter charge against Horiuchi: his second shot was so reckless that he is culpable for the death that resulted."

reply posted on 5-9-2003 @ 11:37 AM by jezebel

I remember when this happened and how horrified I was at the obvious fascist actions sanctioned by our government. What horrified me the most, however, was how quickly Americans forgot about the atrocities at Ruby Ridge and Waco. They all knew what had happened was completely against the Constitution and any sense of morality, yet no one understood that just because they were so far removed from these incidents, it doesn't mean that one day it wouldn't be them being trampled under Big Brother's boot. The greatest crime committed, in my opinion, was the American public's failure to stand up for one of it's own against an increasingly tyrannical government. While no one should have died in either instance, to let them die and not react against this type of oppression, is to let them die in vain.

reply posted on 5-9-2003 @ 02:13 PM by Flinx

I think the reasons alot of people weren't too upset about this particular abuse of power by the government is because the Weavers were white supremacists who terroristed their neighbors (if one can have neighbors in the middle of nowhere).

reply posted on 5-9-2003 @ 02:19 PM by goregrinder

This was indeed a heinous event, coupled with the disgusting actions taken by Janet Reno at Waco.

White supremacists or not, killing children and a woman holding a child in her arms is sickening. If you believe their personal beliefs (i dont even know if this is true or this is some kind of propaganda) were a justification for their murder you are just as disgusting.

[Edited on 5-9-2003 by goregrinder]

[Edited on 5-9-2003 by goregrinder]

reply posted on 5-9-2003 @ 02:57 PM by PolskieWojsko

Simple solution...

The agents would apologize and then be shot in the head on national TV.

Make an example out of them...

reply posted on 5-9-2003 @ 03:11 PM by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

This was just one of many examples of how democrats can be as fascist as republicans. it doesnt matter whose in office, they will kill any opposition. Waco was a bunch of religious nuts, yet what the govo0rnment did there was abominable.

I dont care if they were white supremecists. Thier ideology is thier own. they were out in the boondocks, minding thier own business. terrorizing neighbors> What neighbors? All thier neighbors were white supremecists too! So long as they stay in the hills and marry thier family members, then who cares what they do on thier own property?

The govornment was TOTALLY in the wrong here.

1. They invaded personal property. That was the weavers land, they had no right to go up there.
2. Trumped up charges. Entrapment. Harassment.
3. Shooting a dog? For surveilance purposes? What heartless bastards! Kill a dog so they can spy on this family? Spy on them for no good reason? It was pretty obvious there was little to spy on: A bunch of Christian Idenity nuts with a few guns living in thier cabin.....

Democrat, republican, ect doesnt matter. Clinton was as bad as bush was for the well being of america.

reply posted on 5-9-2003 @ 03:12 PM by Flinx

Originally posted by goregrinder
This was indeed a heinous event, coupled with the disgusting actions taken by Janet Reno at Waco.

White supremacists or not, killing children and a woman holding a child in her arms is sickening. If you believe their personal beliefs (i dont even know if this is true or this is some kind of propaganda) were a justification for their murder you are just as disgusting.

[Edited on 5-9-2003 by goregrinder]

[Edited on 5-9-2003 by goregrinder]

Whoa there buddy! I didn't say anything about that being a justification for the killing. I said many members of the public (wrongly) weren't as upset about the deaths once that tidbit of information got out. And no, it's not propaganda.
So hold your horses before going into Neo-con rage mode.

reply posted on 5-9-2003 @ 03:24 PM by Flinx

I found this:

www.crimelibrary.com...

I actually remember when all this happened and followed it quite carefully at the time. I was a strange teenager....

reply posted on 5-9-2003 @ 03:25 PM by Loki

I knew about waco, even though it was before my time, but I was appalled to hear about the Ruby Ridge incident. I've never, ever heard about this before today, and I'll have to say that I appreciate being educated. Just another reason to not support the gov't. That just sickens me.

reply posted on 5-9-2003 @ 03:29 PM by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

This happened the same day I graduated basic training. I remeber, because we were allowed a night out with our parents or families if they came to see us. It was on the news. Really pissed me off. I thought it was horrid, really. The NRA was pretty pissed about the whole thing. Next thing you know.WACO, less than a year later. The first Bush was in office during this travesty. Then Clinton and Waco.

No one is safe.

reply posted on 5-9-2003 @ 03:32 PM by Flinx

Hmm on the other hand....I was 11 when this happened. I don't think I started really following it until later.
I do remember all of the...um, "activists" flocked from around the country to support the Weavers.

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