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Democracy vs. Freedom

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posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 05:54 AM
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It is disturbing to me, how many people in the United States have no idea what they are saying or what their words actually mean, when they promote the "spread of democracy" around the world. To most people, if a nation has a democratic government, it is virtually certain that its people will enjoy the same freedoms Americans have up until recently. I came across the following speech by Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas), that articulates the reasons that Democracy, by no means, equals freedom. I hope that you will take the time to read it and really think about what he is saying.


We’ve all heard the words democracy and freedom used countless times, especially in the context of our invasion of Iraq. They are used interchangeably in modern political discourse, yet their true meanings are very different.

George Orwell wrote about “meaningless words” that are endlessly repeated in the political arena*. Words like “freedom,” “democracy,” and “justice,” Orwell explained, have been abused so long that their original meanings have been eviscerated. In Orwell’s view, political words were “Often used in a consciously dishonest way.” Without precise meanings behind words, politicians and elites can obscure reality and condition people to reflexively associate certain words with positive or negative perceptions. In other words, unpleasant facts can be hidden behind purposely meaningless language. As a result, Americans have been conditioned to accept the word “democracy” as a synonym for freedom, and thus to believe that democracy is unquestionably good...
continued... www.house.gov...


A speech that he gave today, on C-Span, was one of the best speeches I have heard regarding the War on Iraq, and it deserves to be heard on every news station in the US, but since that will never happen I hope that those of you who have the time, will go and read the transcript here. The following are a couple excerpts from the speech:

The mess we face in the Middle East and Afghanistan, and the threat of terrorism within our own borders, are not a result of the policies of this administration alone. Problems have been building for many years, and have only gotten much worse with our most recent policy of forcibly imposing regime change in Iraq. We must recognize that the stalemate in Korea, the loss in Vietnam, and the quagmire in Iraq and Afghanistan all result from the same flawed foreign policy of interventionism that our government has pursued for over 100 years. It would be overly simplistic to say the current administration alone is responsible for the mess in Iraq.

By rejecting the advice of the Founders and our early presidents, our leaders have drifted away from the admonitions against entangling alliances and nation building. Policing the world is not our calling or our mandate. Besides, the Constitution doesn’t permit it. Undeclared wars have not enhanced our national security.

The consensus on foreign interventionism has been pervasive. Both major parties have come to accept our role as the world’s policeman, despite periodic campaign rhetoric stating otherwise. The media in particular, especially in the early stages, propagandize in favor of war. It’s only when the costs become prohibitive and the war loses popular support that the media criticize the effort.




posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 06:27 AM
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Freedom is just a word people use these days, we talk about freedom while our society becomes more and more regulated and controlled. I was talking to a girl from Turkey yesterday, she made the point that while Americans love to talk about freedom, they aren't much interested in practicing it.

Her first notable experience here was being chased down by the cops and having a gun stuck in her face at 15, because they thought she was skipping class (she was going home sick). The same people that want to violently impose their idea of "freedom" on the rest of the planet support every idiotic authoritarian law that gets proposed.

It's like the old Star Trek episode, where they go to a planet where the "Yangs" (yankees) worship the flag and the Constitution, but have long since forgotten what they're supposed to mean. "Freedom" is something we bomb foreigners in the name of, actual personal freedoms are restricted more every day, by both right and left.



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 06:35 AM
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Only one catch, the USA is NOT a Democracy! The US is a Republic. Most people don't know the difference, so they talk about the US as something it's not.

If we were a democracy, every voter would have direct input on EVERY issue in the government. However, our system works by groups of people choosing an individual or several individuals to Represent them in the government. It is this smaller group of representitives that make most of the decisions and create our laws.

Don't be fooled! things aren't always what they seem to be!

Tim



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 09:35 AM
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Ghost I agree with you..

It's amazing. that Many in this country do not acknowledge the actual contents in the consitution itself. I would even include the President of the United States as I have heard him and his predecessor refer to the US as a Democracy.



posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 03:45 AM
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You can be both a Republic and a Democracy.

A Republic is roughly just "a state or country that is led by people who do not base their political power on any principle beyond the control of the people living in that state or country"

Democracy is "a form of government in which policy is decided by the preference of the majority in a decision-making process, usually elections or referenda, open to all or most citizens."

Now folks, let us spend a long moment to think about it...oh yes...half way there.

In a Republic the Government is Led by a group of people who do not act on their own viewpoints but on the views of the majority of people. In a fully democratic society [Switzerland] the people would vote on it instead. It is almost the same form of Government.



posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 04:43 AM
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Democracy, used in the world in this current time period is an illusionary word that leaders who are really dictators use to create the illusion that we are free so we don't resist and rise up. It's the smartest and most successful form of dictatorship that is known and works because the people can't rise up against things they don't know about, which relates back to the pyramid of power structure (multinational corporations, defence, media, government, judges, parliament at the second tiers, with the top tier dictating how to control them, whilst the people at the bottom tier believing different information and actions the second tier tells them is true. True freedom is telling the truth about everything no matter what. UFOs, paranormal phenomena, space exploration, assasination coverups, would all be known in a truly free world or dimension.

At the least, a democracy would mean every person voting on EVERY action or decision the government makes, which would be very easy to do in this current technological age. With voting taking up less resources, money and time if done digitally through computers.


[edit on 20-10-2005 by sugeshotcha]



posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
You can be both a Republic and a Democracy.


The proper term is Democratic-Republic! It is a republic (representitive government) based on the ideas of democracy (each individual has one vote per issue, and the majority rules). This is how the US Government works. Why do you think America has elections?

Tim



posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 12:43 PM
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You actually can't get a "Republic" that doesn't have a level of democracy to it.

Republic has to be a "Checks and Balances system".



posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 10:10 PM
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The reason we have elections is because that is the way the blueprint of the American Government lays it out. The Consitution of the United States.

But i digress and refer to Article IV Section 4 of the Consitution.

"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence. "

I will not even go into some of the qoutes from some of the signers of that document who spoke against Democracy.. George Washingtons farewell address after he left presidential office stated a great fear of Democracy comming into being in the young country.

I am a firm believer in the Consitution.. That due to my beliefs that parallel libertarian outlooks. Its the origional document that is the basis of all American Politics. Unfortunately.. many politicians never bother to obey it.

A interesting read on the subject is.. The Future of Freedom, Illiberal Democracy at Home and Abroad. by Fareed Zakaria.

He states that America is a Democracy.. but gives references that it may very well be a bad thing as Democracy in the United States is pushed more and more onto the people. It must be restrained in order to allow people to be free.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 02:47 AM
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Actually, if you have no say in your Government [Democrtic Process] you lack freedom.

By allowing the people to vote and decide who comes into power, in each state you have a democracy. Although the American version of Democracy is very open to abuse.



posted on Dec, 26 2005 @ 08:48 PM
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"Bringing democracy to the people of ____" is just a phrase that the US policy-makers use to justify the overthrow of an anti-American dictator. The point isn't really "democracy," as evidenced by two things. These same policy-makers who claim such a love for democracy are perfectly content to leave pro-American dictators in power, and they're also quite content to replace democratically elected anti-American governments with pro-American dictators.

The only factor of any importance to the policy-makers in this government is whether or not the foreign government in question serves their interests. "Democracy" is just a buzzword that they use to disguise their base and self-serving natures.

The truly sad thing is how well and how often it works...



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 09:55 AM
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technically the USA is a Federalist Republic... though many will argue that a Federalist stare is just a subset of a Democratic one.



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