Should Ray Nagin be held liable for criminal negligence?, page
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Topic started on 8-9-2005 @ 10:12 AM by skippytjc
Ray Nagin, the mayor of New Orleans has been the most featured and vocal personality during this crisis. The mayor is easily the sharpest and most heard critic of the federal government’s efforts after the storm. Mayor Ray Nagin is a household name today.

But there is something that most media outlets have all but over looked: Where was Nagin and what was he doing BEFORE the hurricane? Nagin apparently did nothing but tell the people he represented to evacuate. Sounds like a reasonable action for a mayor in a situation like this, but was that enough? Apparently not.

The people who did not evacuate New Orleans were mostly the poor and low income residents of that city. They simply couldn’t afford to leave. It costs money and resources to evacuate from your home. You need transportation, food and lodging, and spare cash or credit to survive away from home and they didn’t have it. I mentioned in another post that even I couldn’t afford to leave my house for very long even though I am not poor, let alone up and evacuate. I would possibly have stayed too as a result.

Mayor Nagin did not provide his needy residents the means to evacuate, pure and simple. How can this man criticize the federal help in the aftermath when he could have averted a great deal of the human toll of this storm in the first place?

We elect officials to protect and represent us, and not just in everyday life and affairs, but in emergencies and special circumstances. This storm was not a sneak attack and its severity was not a surprise. The Mayor was concerned enough to call for evacuations days before the storm. But he did nothing to help the people who could not leave; he failed these people in the most critical way possible: He allowed them to stay and die.

I suggest Mayor Nagin be held responsible for his amazing lack of competency and absolute neglect of the people who counted on him the most. He simply did not one thing to remove the people who were unable to do it themselves. And out of every single person in that city, he is the MOST responsible decisions such as these.

For each person who has died as a result of this tragedy who WOULD have left if the means were provided them, Mayor Ray Nagin is responsible. It doesn’t go past his desk.

Criminal negligence in the most severe way


[edit on 8-9-2005 by skippytjc]


reply posted on 8-9-2005 @ 10:29 AM by LazarusTheLong
I see your points, and obviously alot of mistakes were made on many peoples parts...
But personally I give Ray a little respect, while negligent in his duties before the storm, he was very responsible just following, and if only ALL the agencies and officials were as responsive, many lives would have been saved.

SO in short: he screwed up, but did everything he could to makeup...
the Governor still is being scarce... because she didn't call in the national guard from other states to help rescue efforts (her national guard is overseas, I think)
He also didn't try to cooridinate any rescue efforts... it seems like it went from Ray screaming for help from anyone, to finally being answered days later by the inept FEMA organization...
I remember at one point, there was talk of lousiana declaring its own independance, so that it could accept aid from foreign countries without restraint of government red tape...

Wouldn't that have been somethin? I bet france would have backed the deal...

at this time, I hope a full scale investigation is done, (by someone other than bush) I see that the "ROVE" has been called in to do damage control (to bush, not NO)... so the interesting way of blaming without blaming will start soon... and i suspect it will all point away from bush...

I don't blame bush either... but i do think he was a heartless bastard, to ignore the situation as long as he did... and the too little, too late photo opps, just made me sick.... Much like i feel about a guy that walks right by a person dying in the street, because he is late to his vacation...

Responsibility? I am not so worried about blame for the crisis, but blame that nothing was done after the crisis... for so long... while people died...
alot of heros came down in boats to rescue people... they are the true american spirit of caring, and compassion...





[edit on 8-9-2005 by LazarusTheLong]



reply posted on 8-9-2005 @ 11:18 AM by yadboy
Everyone involved in this "rescue" did a shoddy job. But here a few few facts that the Bush haters like to ignore.

1. The local officials in New Oleans have been through this senario twice before within the last 7 years. Hurricane Ivan in 2004 and hurricane Georges in 1998. In '98 people were sent to the Superdome (approx. 14,000), with no provisions supplied and no security. The result was vandalism and violence. In 2004 people were sent to the Superdome (approx. 1,100) along with 300 guardsmen. So why did they sent people there w/ no provisions and no security in 2005? They can't say they had no idea what was going to happen.

2. The National Guard is deployed by the state governor. It was up to the gov. to see that they were deployed and used wisely.
When Army National Guard units are not mobilized or under federal control, they report to the Governors of their respective state or territory. The President serves as commander-in-chief for units mobilized for federal active duty.

www.arng.army.mil...
FEMA is there to aid the local government, not run the whole show. That's how the system is set up. Is that a shortcoming of the system? Maybe so, but that's the way it is right now.

I'm not saying that FEMA and Bush bear no responcibilty, but I think the Bush bashers need to be aware that the local government is in the drivers seat in a situation like this. They did a good job with some things, but they was so much more they should have done. Things they were capable of. Like deploying the guards and using school busses to get people who wanted out of the city to a safe place.

[edit on 9/8/2005 by yadboy]

[edit on 9/8/2005 by yadboy]

Cripes I can't spell!

[edit on 9/8/2005 by yadboy]


reply posted on 8-9-2005 @ 05:12 PM by motionknight
Originally posted by skippytjc

Ray Nagin, the mayor of New Orleans has been the most featured and vocal personality during this crisis. The mayor is easily the sharpest and most heard critic of the federal government’s efforts after the storm. Mayor Ray Nagin is a household name today.

But there is something that most media outlets have all but over looked: Where was Nagin and what was he doing BEFORE the hurricane? Nagin apparently did nothing but tell the people he represented to evacuate. Sounds like a reasonable action for a mayor in a situation like this, but was that enough? Apparently not.

The people who did not evacuate New Orleans were mostly the poor and low income residents of that city. They simply couldn’t afford to leave. It costs money and resources to evacuate from your home. You need transportation, food and lodging, and spare cash or credit to survive away from home and they didn’t have it. I mentioned in another post that even I couldn’t afford to leave my house for very long even though I am not poor, let alone up and evacuate. I would possibly have stayed too as a result.

Mayor Nagin did not provide his needy residents the means to evacuate, pure and simple. How can this man criticize the federal help in the aftermath when he could have averted a great deal of the human toll of this storm in the first place?

We elect officials to protect and represent us, and not just in everyday life and affairs, but in emergencies and special circumstances. This storm was not a sneak attack and its severity was not a surprise. The Mayor was concerned enough to call for evacuations days before the storm. But he did nothing to help the people who could not leave; he failed these people in the most critical way possible: He allowed them to stay and die.

I suggest Mayor Nagin be held responsible for his amazing lack of competency and absolute neglect of the people who counted on him the most. He simply did not one thing to remove the people who were unable to do it themselves. And out of every single person in that city, he is the MOST responsible decisions such as these.

For each person who has died as a result of this tragedy who WOULD have left if the means were provided them, Mayor Ray Nagin is responsible. It doesn’t go past his desk.

Criminal negligence in the most severe way


[edit on 8-9-2005 by skippytjc]



Skipp i have no words to describe you....

not living in reality doesnt come even close

But anyway read this:
quote:
WASHINGTON Local and state officials wrangled Wednesday over whether to forcibly evict the thousands of people who were refusing to leave the crippled and contaminated city of New Orleans. Military leaders said that despite a mayoral order, they had no intention to force people out.

At the Pentagon, Lieutenant General Joseph Inge, deputy commander of the U.S. Northern Command, said that "regular troops would not be used" in any evacuation. For now, he added, "it's not clear to us what the exact state of the mission is."

Compass later made clear that no one would be forced out just yet. "We have thousands of people who want to voluntarily evacuate," he said. "Once all the voluntary evacuations have taken place, then we'll concentrate our efforts and forces to mandatorily evacuate them."
quote:
WASHINGTON Local and state officials wrangled Wednesday over whether to forcibly evict the thousands of people who were refusing to leave the crippled and contaminated city of New Orleans. Military leaders said that despite a mayoral order, they had no intention to force people out.

At the Pentagon, Lieutenant General Joseph Inge, deputy commander of the U.S. Northern Command, said that "regular troops would not be used" in any evacuation. For now, he added, "it's not clear to us what the exact state of the mission is."

Compass later made clear that no one would be forced out just yet. "We have thousands of people who want to voluntarily evacuate," he said. "Once all the voluntary evacuations have taken place, then we'll concentrate our efforts and forces to mandatorily evacuate them."
iht.com...


reply posted on 8-9-2005 @ 06:36 PM by Benevolent Heretic
Just like 9/11, the president had every warning and did nothing.
Just like 9/11, those really responsible will not be held accountable.
Just like 9/11, the president said, "Who could have known"??? when it was very well known.
Just like 9/11, the president is blaming those in his administration (CIA, FEMA) instead of standing like a real man.
Just like 9/11, the president is going for the all-important photo op (only this time, it's backfiring)
Just like 9/11, information is being hidden, photos are being hushed and facts are being distorted.
Just like 9/11, the president himself wasn't in any hurry to respond.

BUT... Unlike 9/11, we the people know better than to believe his photo ops and his 'good old boy' joking around ("Brownie, you're doing a fine job! heh-heh") We know better than to believe that he's done all he could. We are wiser, more discerning. Well, most of us are. We are taking it to the top.


But, nationally, these are leaders who won re-election last year largely by portraying their opponents as incapable of keeping the country safe. These are leaders who regularly pressure the news media in this country to report the reopening of a school or a power station in Iraq, and defies its citizens not to stand up and cheer. Yet they couldn't even keep one school or power station from being devastated by infrastructure collapse in New Orleans — even though the government had heard all the "chatter" from the scientists and city planners and hurricane centers and some group whose purposes the government couldn't quite discern... a group called The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.


The 'City' of Louisiana

Mayor Nagin undoubtedly made mistakes, so did the governor, but the lion's share of this disaster rests in the hands of the one person whose signature could have saved NOLA. In a catastrophe of this size and scope, you gotta go to the top.

So, no, Mayor Nagin should not be charged with anything at all. I honestly do believe he did his best, which is a lot more than I can say for others involved.

[edit on 8-9-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]
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