NEWS: Disbelief - Former FEMA Officials Speak Out

Laura Brown, a Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman in Washington, said she had no such report.

"We're controlling every single aircraft in that airspace and none of them reported being fired on," she said, adding that the FAA was in contact with the military as well as civilian aircraft.

I'm getting a bit of de ja vu here. Oh, I know, it's the same feeling I had when it came out that half of the 19 terrorists who supposedly died in exploding planes at the WTC + Pentagon were still alive and well in Saudi Arabia.

[edit on 2005-9-7 by wecomeinpeace]

Not to dismiss Laura Brown's statement . . .

But it's seems to me that when the FAA [ or any governmental agency for that matter] "reports" before/during/after a so-called national disaster I grab the salt shaker.

I mean come on . . . for the most part it's known [historically] what ACTUALLY happens and what gets reported or transmitted-over-the-airwaves can literally be the difference of the two-sides-of-the-a-coin.

Sad, but true?!

Again, not to dismiss her account . . . only an attempt to clear the STENCH in the air! Though her "statement" is most likely accurate and correct, it is still only based upon the info they/she received.





[edit on 7-9-2005 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Actually, the word is now out, but not yet on the internet. The Red Cross has confirmed that they were in place and ready to deliver aid to New Orleans and surrounding stricken areas and it was the Louisiana Emergency Management Administration that would not let them go. They were afraid that delivering supplies to those in shelters would encourage them to stay in New Orleans when what the State wanted was for them to leave.

Again . . . BS . . .

Under these circumstances, and after the president has already declared a state of emergency in the area, FEMA takes control. The president does not have to declare martial law to enact FEMA.

Whatever actions, or better yet inactions, that took place after the president declared a "state of emergency", those areas were under the direct [of course when under investigation in-direct] supervision/coordination of, you guessed it, FEMA!

uuuhhhmmmm . . . why else would FEMA have been "in place, and standing by?" [hands tied of course]

.

[edit on 7-9-2005 by 12m8keall2c]

Well, I guess that Red Cross official was lying through her teeth, then. You expect that kind of behavior from professional liberals, not humanitarian officials. Go figure.

Actually, Grady . . .

That may have been exactly the case, that they were "informed" by the Louisiana Emergency Management Agency. . . which ultimately falls under the direct/indirect [flip the coin] supervision/control of FEMA, which falls under the umbrella of the Dept. Of Homeland Security . . . and the list goes on, and on, and on, and ???

I don't hold those telling what was told to them/the information they received to "their" words, necessarily, hell they are/were probably just passing along what they were given.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Well, I guess that Red Cross official was lying through her teeth, then. You expect that kind of behavior from professional liberals, not humanitarian officials. Go figure.

What twisted delusional world are you from? What administration has lied a nation into war, lied about everything it has done, lied just for the practice? The "conservative" bush administration that is who. Hell you repubicans have lied so much about what us liberals stand for and believe you have come to believe your own goddamn propaganda. FOOLS!!! I would bet you don't even know what the word liberal means or the type of behaviour it suggests...probably get your definations from the likes of limbraugh, coulter and savage and their ilk.

By GradyPhilpott

Well, I guess that Red Cross official was lying through her teeth, then. You expect that kind of behavior from professional liberals, not humanitarian officials. Go figure.

Funny you should mention that Grady. When the Red Cross and their partners Amnesty International report on humanitarian and prison conditions in Iraq they're described as nothing but professional liberals if they're lucky. Usually it's just leftist this and commies that.

You make a point, but what? all is forgiven and you're all suddenly saints again?

Tell me, how does that work..?

[edit on 7-9-2005 by kegs]

Well after everything I've read recently I think an inquiry into this whole mongolian .........would be a good thing. I don't care who runs the inquiry either, the political BS can be filtered out.


( Some decorum please this is ATSNN)

[edit on 8-9-2005 by asala]

As a self-described "objective centrist," I have a hard time respecting anyone who can casually dismiss and deny there exists culpability at the federal level.

Is this to say the situation wasn't bungled at every level -- municipal, state, and federal? Not at all.

However, the scope of the catastrophe was such that it far exceeded the ability of any local or state governemnt to act alone. To the contrary, FEMA had prepositioned 18 medical response teams, and as this scenario eclipsed the worst-case scenarios as planned for by FEMA during the Hurricane Pam exercise conducted just last year (Link to FEMA's own conclusions on FEMA's own web site), there is no excuse for the delay in initially reponding, nor for the lack of coordinate relief efforts which finally began DAYS after the scope of the tragedy was well known.

For an overview of the depth of ineptitude (which, unfortunately, represents a best case scenario ), one must look no further than the parralel timeline of events as they unfolded last week:

August 30th: The levees rupture, flooding 80% of New Orleans as the greatest natural disaster in our nation's history unfolds before our very eyes. Meanwhile, President Bush finally leaves his ranch in Crawford, Texas, and flys directly to... Arizona.

August 31st: Reporters are often first on the scene as the nation's collective jaw drops at the sight of refugees stranded on freeway overpasses begging for food and water. Between 10,000-15,000 evacuees remain stranded at the convention center, and supplies are running dangerously low. No one has come with additional supplies. Meanwhile, tens of thousands more remain stranded in squalor in the flooded Superdome, without running water or electricity. No one has come. However, our beloved President has packed up and left Arizona, and flys immediately to... San Diego. Now, given, he flys in to take part in a ceremony marking an end to WWII.

Now, both my late grandfathers were veterans of the Navy, and my late great-uncle served under Patton. I think all three would have been cool if Dubya had acted like a freaking when it mattered for once and grabbed the freaking reigns. In fact, I know they would have been cool with it. Why, because they didn't fight and serve so our leadership could turn its back on our own people. When there are Americans who have needlessly suffered for 48 hours without food or water, take charge, man! You know? Lasso? Horse? "YEEEE-HAAAWWWW!" STEP TO IT. Well, in reality, he did get just a little closer to his country roots, accepting that "fancy GEEtar" from country singer Mark Wills and all.

September 1st: Two world-renown hospitals in downtown New Orleans have become island tombs. The patients and staff have become the Forgotten, and sadly, again it is reporters who are the first outside visitors to reach these hospitals since the storm. As the morgues lie under 20' of water they are piling their dead in the stairwells. The reporters take on what patients they can for their return to safety. Meanwhile, the mayor of New Orleans (himself equally culpable in this mess, BTW), issues a desperate "S.O.S," as thousands of evacuees remain without food or water. All across the Gulf Coast, the question resonates? "Where is FEMA?" However, there is light at the end of the tunnel! Dubya officially announces, three days after the worst natural disaster in our nation's history, that he's cutting his vacation short to return to Washington early!

September 2nd: Bush appears on the Today Show, where he states, and I quote, "I don't think anybody could have predicted that the levees would break."

Uggggh. As an American, I am truly ashamed.

Now, I am not a fan of partisan politics, period. Maybe Nancy Pelosi is a "raving yadda yadda yadda"... But regardless of her politics, when she speaks freely to the press of her conversation with the President, and directly quotes him as saying, with regard to her criticism of the relief efforts to date, "What went wrong?"... and when I hear the President speaking of how he's going to "sit on" Trent Lott's "porch when it's rebuilt," and how it will be a "fine porch," I, too, hear the words of a man who simply does... not... relate. Really, he hasn't a clue. If I wasn't so dman angry at our government right now for its handling of The Mother of All Fumbles, I might actually feel sorry for the guy.

And no the lack of immediate response does not fall squarely onto the backs of the states. Not only is this reflected by the $160 Billion preliminary recovery costs estimates, but let us also remember that 35% of Louisiana's national guard troops and reservists could not be called into action... because they are already in action, in Iraq. Similarly, 40% of Mississippi's reservists and national guard troops are overseas. Is anyone seriously going to tell me these "details" somehow escaped the attention of this administration? Anyone?

Now to the question at hand: Is there a conspiracy afoot?

Hell if I know.

Are there occurrences and examples of incompetence so extreme and absurd as to make one wonder if there are other sinister forces at work here beyond sheer ineptitude?

Well, when one takes into account that a) FEMA planned for a very similar (though not as bad) scenario just a year ago, and b) how many billions have been spent since 9/11 on disaster preparedness?

My God... it makes me wish for the "Good 'Ol Days" of hearing some jacka$$ tell me to get some painter's plastic and duct tape as my best defense against any forthcoming attack. I never thought I would miss Tom Ridge... and that, ladies and gentlemen, is a sobering thought.

During 911 FEMA was quite efficient getting Wall Street back on line and
amazingly efficient removing critical forensic evidence from both the WTC and Pentagon disaster sites.

By comparrison, FEMA delayed life saving essential food and water to those
in need in the critical hours after the winds had passed and levees failed.

Now they are trying to say that they are not first responders, but merely emergency managers,
yet the only thing they managed to do was to deny responsibility for those who needed help the most.

Originally posted by Astronomer68
I don't care who runs the inquiry either, the political BS can be filtered out.

I disagree that it can. Bush appointing Kissinger to head up the farcical 9-11 Commission was the final proof that the U.S. government has become too corrupt and too nepotistic to be capable of regulating itself. The same whitewashing and self-censorship occurred with the Iran-Contra Affair, and even as far back as the Warren Commission. I personally am too jaded with big government these days to believe that any good could possibly come out of any inquiry. Heads will roll, but only for those out of the loop. The hen house is so full of foxes that they outnumber the chickens. The only hope for America to heal her political sicknesses now is for nationwide protests, or maybe even mild revolution.

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part, you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears, upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you've got to make it stop! And you've got indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!" - Mario Savio 1964

People need to think about this whole scenerio without thinking about who they like or dislike. There was no plot to kill poor blacks here and that is a fact. There was a lot of mistakes made that cost people their lives without a doubt.
There is plenty of blame to go around and that includes Personal,State and Federal.
We have never had a disaster of this size.
If you are involved in the next disaster of this size and there will be one some day are you going live or die?
The reason I ask that question is because from what I am reading most of you will die and have only yourselfs to blame because you are americans and you have the entitlement to expect to be rescued the day of the disaster.
I on the otherhand will have a plan,food,water and the knowledge that if I do not get myself out I will die like the rest of you.

Funnier then all get out, Bush on National TV....

"No one could have forseen the Levees breaking."

Except the 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 reports/studies all under his watch......
Except for CNN, MSNBC, Local NOLA newspapers/tv stations......
Except for some women in a yellow raincoat days before the storm......
Except for about 200-300 million people in the country called America......

Lot's of "Except" there isn't there? I know he needs to fund his war for oil so he cut a quarter billion from the Levee/pump/dam projects that dissapeared when haliburton got it.

for all these examples and for the purposful neglect and interference by FEMA. FEMA are anything but inept fools. This is an agency capable of cold and calculated agendas whos very last concern is for their stated purpose for existing. Still, in the folly of shifting blame, I think we are expected to overlook one very important aspect. Not the who but the why. Why were supplies turned away? Why is FEMA purposfully hindering disaster recovery? What reason is there , what ultimate goal is there?

Some have stated to show a need for increased funding and some have stated just to control not to offer relief but it stinks of something much more sinister. Why, in an event the entire word is watching did they want to project the image of failures? Who stands to gain, why and how much?

Originally posted by astrocreep
Why, in an event the entire word is watching did they want to project the image of failures? Who stands to gain, why and how much?

Problem - Reaction - Solution

P: Confusion regarding jurisdiction between federal, state and local level.
R: Public outrage that bureaucratic obstacles can cause the deaths of thousands.
S: FEMA and the feds are given greater powers over States and given the ability to declare martial law and send in troops without the request of governors or mayors.

P: Armed citizens/gangs hampering rescue efforts.
R: Citizens angry and appalled at the lawlessness and anarchy that the possession of weapons can bring about so quickly, and the ineffectuality of the government when faced with armed citizens.
S: Gun registration/confiscation bills passed in the proceeding months with little/less objection.

P: Grievous, graphic and tragic loss of life allowed to continue and splashed out across the media to the point where the message is made horrifibly clear. An PsyOp/terror exercise against the American people.
R: Horror and revelation.
S: The chattel are made aware of what disasters can do to their seemingly secure way of life. They will give up more liberties to ensure security against such disasters affecting them personally.

If there was ever a time when the American people need to stop, think, and fix the Governmental problems of this country then it would be now.

But alas, people are too overwhelmed in their jobs, future, and lives to worry about the government. Apathy has been replaced by the need to survive. And in order to survive, you can't take the time to effectivly put an end to this horrible government.

Sure, you can protest.. have big ol' walk-a-thons.. but do you really, for a second, think the government gives a hoot about those? Do you really think that setting up a camp outside the whitehouse, or president Bush's vacation home, will make the government think?

Our government have become professionals at doing everything against the wills of it's citizens, lying to it's citizens, and in return, ignoring everything we "protest"..

We're just an uneducated herd.. bahhhhhhh

The really messed up part is.. everywhere I go, everyone I talk to.. everyone has the same opinion of our corrupt government. I have never, not once, met a person that would defend our government.. yet.. we all just do as we're told, and follow that line... bahhhhhhhh

It was interesting that there have already been land purchases of areas wiped out by the floods...
so that they can build ritzy hotels...(trump has already made the announcement)
they haven't even figured out what to do with the former residents of areas, but are selling off land the minute they leave...

speaks of reasons for neglect... doesn't it?

then you have the governor, who has just seen 100,000 of her most poor constituents removed from her backyard, to become another states "problem"
and is sitting on huge rebuilding contracts, and new development, and has pinned all duties of the emergency on FEMA
IMO that she sees this as a way to kill three birds with one stone...

I have read her letters to Bush, and she completely forgets about asking for search and rescue crews until SEPT 2nd... well after most of the elderly have died...
she seems to be primarily concernd with getting all the federal aid she can MONEY wise...
Dont worry sugar... you are gonna have so much money coming in, there will be enough left over to dip Trent Lots house in gold... so that Bush can visit and party some more in his favorite party town.

I am surprised that Bush hasn't said... well, if they have no water, let them drink wine, they have no food, why not eat all that fine cajun shellfish and oysters?"
Oh, it is pretty sad that he "connects" to the people, by saying he hopes to see trent lots house rebuilt even nicer than before... (i didn't feel sorry for Trent...did you?)

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
Dont worry sugar... you are gonna have so much money coming in, there will be enough left over to dip Trent Lots house in gold...

Thank you, LTL, for a moment of levity.

Your comment reminded me of a line from the Daily Show this last Tuesday in which Ed Helms "reported" that the President planned to, "Dip [Michael Brown] in bronze, and hand him out as an award to other officials."

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

Soficrow wrote:
I came across numerous reports of "refused aid" while researching my pop-control thread.

If you could post those here or in another thread that would be great. If such actions, nay, crimes have indeed been committed, they need to be brought out in the open. Incompetence is one thing...

[edit on 2005-9-7 by wecomeinpeace]

There was a story on WDSU or WWLTV (Local New Orleans news that can be seen on the internet.) They were saying in the beginning of those FEMA morons wanting to start helping out, they tried to commadere 3 rigs carring ice..

They told them to put all the ice on the side of the road so they can take the trucks.

I am sorry for I have no links, since I saw it on thier news.