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Revealing black projects

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posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 05:40 PM
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good posts shadowhawk, plenty to think about there


there is one error though, and its this;



The government acknowleged the exisitence of stealth technology development programs in 1980 but categroically denied the exisitence of a "Stealth Fighter" until it was unveiled by DoD in November 1988.


I have hard copies of reports, factual press reports incuding quots from the DoD, that talk about CSIRS (the F-117) quite openly that date from 1980 onwards and the CSIRS designation was used by the Pentagon itself, however they only went as far as saying that it was real, the faceted design was a real surprise when it was revealed as everyone had been fooled into thinking it looked like Testors model of the F-19.

There was even a spoof report by 'uncle Roger' in Flight that asked the question that if the new secret stealth fighter was 'In-weather' (as described in the CSIRS acronym) then what is an 'out-of-weather' fighter? And then went on to advertise the marvellous new 'Scruggs Wonderjet' out-of-weather fighter that was absolutely unbeatable as long as there was no weather of any kind, in which case it was useless. I did say it was a spoof and I guess 'you had to be there'.


Warpboost, when you ask that about the F-22 you are making the mistake of thinking that it was a black project, as I've said before, it never was. Although the specifics were naturally (and largely remain) classified the launch of the ATF programme to develop an F-15 replacement was very public and a plethora of spoof designs were issued by the industry in order to satisfy the publics curiosity about the new fighter without actually giving anything away.

Of course keeping it completely secret, or black, was never a realistic option as the plan was to replace the entire front line F-15 fleet with over 700 of them. True black projects involve much more specialised aircraft in much smaller numbers which helps keep them secret.

For instance if the F-22 could somehow have been kept secret the point would come where people asked "where did all our fighters go?" with the F-15 fast disappearing for no obvious reason.

Therefore to take the fact that you know about the F-22 as a sign that a better aircraft exists would be utterly wrong.

A true black aircraft is one that fills a hole in the front line that nobody knows exists.

[edit on 7-9-2005 by waynos]




posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 10:02 PM
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The Bird Of Prey demonstrator seems to fit the bill.

As far as I know it was totally black until they decided to issue a press release - after it was retired.

I don't know if there were any rumored black projects that matched the Bird of Prey well though.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 11:56 PM
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I would say the most black planes are bombers and recon planes, would you want the world to know about a bomber that is the replacement for the b52 that is stealth I dont mean the B2?


Maybe the blimp we hear about is more like the movie Sky Captian and the world of tomorrow? a sky base? I wouldnt want anyone to find out about those for a long time!

lets see: Large solar or moon powered platform or blimp that is basically a airborne aircraft carrier with visual and radar stealth that could be used as a command center, recon and resupply for uavs. While another version could be a high altitude bunker busting bomber using the lastest super cavitating bunker busters, both versions are something I wouldnt want to be known.

But my next question is if other nations know about some black orijects why dont they sometimes report them? Unless they dont want the US to know that they known about the projects.



posted on Sep, 8 2005 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by xmotex
The Bird Of Prey demonstrator seems to fit the bill.

As far as I know it was totally black until they decided to issue a press release - after it was retired.

I don't know if there were any rumored black projects that matched the Bird of Prey well though.


The Bird of Prey is one of the very things that started me wondering about all this because, if we are honest, its reveal was something of an anti-climax after all the speculation.

The 'Bird of Prey' was supposed to be a really futuristic strike aircraft operating with a secret squadron in the Nevada desert (something like the F/A-37 Talon from the movie 'Stealth' was the most widely reported guess) and yet when the real Bird of Prey was revealed it was just a single, tiny, prototype which, if astonishing in itself for its revolutionary design, was a far cry from what everyone expected.

We may be in for a similar let down with some of the others after the way they have been built up in our imaginations.



posted on Sep, 8 2005 @ 04:45 PM
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I bow to superior knowledge on the YF-113G issue, though the numbering is certainly curious. And as always, disinformation is a risk. Given the immense security budget and scarcity of information, it wouldn't be too hard to completely obscure the information with noise.

Breakdown of codes at :
orbat.com...

As to whether it should all be kept secret...I suspect the secrecy is overdone for commercial reasons (by the builders, who know when they're on to a good thing) and military one (by people who don't want to share their toys or expose them to the cold air of the real world). But if a technology was being kept secret that would make a big difference to safety or fuel economy (plasma, anyone?) then I think it would be a shame if it was buried 'for reasons of national security'.



posted on Sep, 8 2005 @ 10:49 PM
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I had wondered about the Bird of Prey for more than 5 years before it was unveiled. It was not a disappointment to me when i finally saw it. Very cool!

The TACIT BLUE unveiling was rather more of an anticlimax. I thought the had thrown away the plane and kep the box it came in. Over the years, it has grown on me, however, and I have made friends with several of the pilots. It was a revolutionary design for its time.

The unofficial unveiling of SENIOR PROM, Lockheed's stealthy cruise missile prototype, was something I had long anticipated. There were no surprises, but it was nice to finally see some photos.

I am looking forward the declassification of the YF-113G, YF-24, and other mystery planes. I have met some of the pilots and they are really impressive guys. They seem like they are on the fast track to some stars on their shoulders.



posted on Sep, 14 2005 @ 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by waynos

Hmmm, I'm not sure I buy that. If the CSIRS was revealed by accident in 1980 could not the US simply continue to deny it? Or why not say 'its a fair cop guv, here it is' and show it. Why say 'yes its real, but you can't have a look' which is effectively wehat they did.


Speaking of CSIRS, does anyone have a guess what might have become of this aircraft? I know the acronem CSIRS stands for something like: Covert Survivable In-wearther Reconnassance and Strike!

This designation suggest that it's some kind of spy plane that has a secondary attack capability.

Tim



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