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F-15's victory over the Rafale & Eurofighter in Singapore - more for politics; less for the jet

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posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 05:25 AM
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We all know that that the F-15T was preferred over the Rafale by Singapore yesterday.

www.mindef.gov.sg...
www.stltoday.com...
www.prline.com...
www.forbes.com...
www.defensenews.com...
www.defenseindustrydaily.com...


IMHO American lobbying and geopolitical reasons defeated the Rafale, not the F-15..... just like London beat Paris for the 2012 Olympics bid.

Take a look at the back stage work done by the US >> it offered the following with the F-15 as a "package deal" to the RSAF ! :

--200 AIM-120C Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM);
--6 AMRAAM Captive Air Training (CAT) Missiles;
--50 MK-82 GBU-38 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) w/BLU-111 warhead;
--44 AN/AVS-9(V) Night Vision Goggles;
--24 Link 16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System/Low Volume Terminals (Fighter Data Link Terminals);
--30 AGM-154A-1 Joint Standoff Weapons w/BLU-111;
--30 AGM-154C Joint Standoff Weapons;
--200 AIM-9X SIDEWINDER Missiles;
--24 AIM-9X SIDEWINDER CAT and Dummy Missiles;


--300,000 20mm Practice Round Cartridges;
--100 KMU-556 GBU-31 JDAM Tail Kit Assemblies;
--4 MK-82 and MK-84 Bomb Practice trainers; and
--testing; integration; devices; containers; common munitions built-in test reprogramming equipment; mission data production system; drones; technical coordination program; engine component management program; aircrew safety equipment; foreign liaison officer administration support; training equipment; repair and return services; technical assistance; missile planning system; technical orders; electronic warfare systems and support; weapons trainers; weapon system reports; missile container; spare and repair parts; supply support; integration and technical services; spares; support and test equipment; personnel training and training equipment; software support; publications and technical documentation; training; life support and survival equipment; studies and surveys; ground support equipment; training missiles; U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services and other related elements of logistics support.

www.defense-aerospace.com...

www.defenseindustrydaily.com...

In addition to this it is obvious that the US has levereged its geopolitical advantage by lobbying with a historically loyal ally. If Singaopre had rejected the F-15T, then it would'nt have been too surprising to see US anger reflected in other areas like trade and spare part deliveries to other US supplied SAF weaponry - all critical for Singapore's intrests. So for Singapore - the decesion to reject the F-15 may not have been an option at all !

Clearly, anyone who thinks the Eurofighter and Rafale were rejected because the 30+ year old F-15 is a "better jet" is living in fools paradise.(imho) Its common knodwledge that the former jets are a lot better than the latter.
Look at this quote from an American website >>

The US Air Force claims the F-15 is in several respects inferior to, or at best equal to, the Rafale, and EF-2000, which are variously superior in acceleration, maneuverability, engine thrust, rate of climb, avionics, firepower, radar signature, or range.

www.fas.org...

In no way do I imply that the F-15 is a dud aircraft, but clearly its not "better" than the Eurofighter or the Rafale.
EF-2000 smokes the F-15 -

A chance encounter over the Lake District between a Eurofighter trainer and two F-15 aircraft turned into a mock dogfight, with the British plane coming off.The 'clash' took place last year over Windermere when the two-seater RAF Eurofighter was 'bounced' from behind by the two F-15E fighters.
The US pilots intended to pursue the supposedly hapless 'Limey' for several miles and lock their radars on to it for long enough so that if it had been a real dogfight the British jet would have been shot down.
But much to the Americans' surprise, the Eurofighter shook them off, outmanoeuvred them and moved into shooting positions on their tails.
scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...


Lt. Col. David "Logger" Rose, a Persian Gulf War F-15 pilot, 41, recalled the time "12 years ago to the day in Desert Storm" when an Iraqi MiG-29 chased away his F-15 on the first day of the war.

www.reviewjournal.com...

Also one cannot forget the F-15 going down to Mig-21's (in addition to very old Su-30K's) in air exercises with India.


Indian flyboys in low-tech Russian and French jets defeated American F-15C pilots more than 90 percent of the time.

www.defensetech.org...
timesofindia.indiatimes.com...


During those now famous exercises, Indian Su-30s and even MiG-21s outperformed American pilots flying their F-15 Eagles. Singapore, which is also looking at the Eurofighter and the French Rafale, has reason to be worried: China has bought the Su-30, as have Malaysia and Indonesia.

www.paifamily.com...

And the Su-30's of the exercises were the baseline ones with an outdated radar, old engines, ancient flight control systems, almost non-existant aveonics, etc and these Su-30's are almost obselete when compared to the latest Su-30's now in posession with Malaysia, Indonesia and the latest MKI's with India - all in Singapore's immediate neighbourhood.

Although this choice of Singapore is may look to some like "welcoming a grandma by rejecting a virgin’s warm proposal", but i suppose the better package and greater ties to a superpower prevalied over better jets.
---------------------------------------------
PS : Something interesting :

"We do not go for the most advanced or the most expensive equipment. Instead, we acquire what is cost-effective, what best meets our specific operational needs." --- In a speech by Mr Lee Hsien Loong, Prime Minister of Singapore soon after the F-15T prevailed over the Rafale.

www.mindef.gov.sg...

Now does this mean that the F-15 was more cost effective ? or is it another way to say that American package politicking edged out a better jet ?


Your thoughts ?

[edit on 7-9-2005 by Stealth Spy]




posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 05:37 AM
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I agree, as I said on another thread. I can see the F-15 becoming a bit of a millstone around Singapores necks in the long term, offsets notwithstanding. Either they will be the last F-15's in service anywhere in the world (due to an inability to afford a replacement) or they will be sold off early (due to an inability to afford theor upkeep) either is possible depending on the amount of assistance forthcoming from the US (the more they get, the longer they'll keep them).



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 05:44 AM
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Hmmm...now that Singapore has impressed Unkil, they want more gizmos
>>

Singapore now wants the Global Hawk UAV


Singapore received a formal briefing from the USA on the Northrop Grumman RQ-4 Global Hawk unmanned air vehicle late last month as it looks to improve its airborne early warning (AEW) and signals intelligence (SIGINT) capabilities.

Industry sources say Singapore is interested in a Global Hawk variant modified to conduct high-altitude, long-endurance AEW and airborne ground surveillance missions, and that this could potentially include indigenous sensor and battle management systems.

Singapore currently operates four Northrop E-2C Hawkeyes on AEW missions, but has in recent years been looking at a mix of new platforms for delivery from 2007-8, including Gulfstream G550 business jets equipped with AEW and SIGINT mission systems supplied by Israel Aircraft Industries.

Sources say Singapore confidentially committed to the G550-based solution several years ago, but also seeks long-endurance UAVs to meet its future requirements, although an acquisition is not imminent.

In 2002 the country began talks with EADS on collaborating on a new medium- to high-altitude, long-endurance UAV derived from the Euromale programme as a solution to its proposed low-altitude, long-endurance UAV requirement.

But the status of this collaboration remains unclear, and Singapore has also held talks with General Atomics on systems such as the Predator. An upgraded Global Hawk modified for the AEW mission would be an ideal complement to the proposed lower-tier system, and Northrop is already working to increase the RQ-4’s payload to 1,360kg (3,000lb), which should make the modifications sought by Singapore feasible.

Securing US government approval for a Global Hawk sale is also thought possible because Singapore is not a member of the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), which restricts the sale of UAVs that could deliver weapons of mass destruction. A South Korean request for information on the Global Hawk is unlikely to be approved because Seoul has signed the MTCR agreement.

Northrop’s improved RQ-4B Global Hawk is on schedule to enter flight test from mid-2006 following the recent delivery of the aircraft’s larger vertical tails and the mating of its extended 40m (130ft) span wing. The company is producing four RQ-4Bs in Palmdale, California.



I wonder if Dassault or EADS has got any UAV that it might want to throw up for competetion ?



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 05:52 AM
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This thread is basicaly a duplicate of your other thread regarding the sale but with aplified political discussion thus it could easily be placed there.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In fact Waynos and I already embarked on just such a line of discussion.

As such this thread will be closed.

Fred



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