People died who did not believe the Government when told to evacuate, page 4

Originally posted by AceWombat04

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

No, I was talking about the people who are physically capable and in their mid 20s to 40s who don't have the common sense to take some preplanning for their own existance, and were too stupid to grasp on to at least one opportunity to get out of poverty in the past 20+ years.

Maybe a little bit of self-reliance would have helped these people help themselves to not be a victim, if they had chosen not to want to be one.

Hey, yo. Let me tell you something.

I grew up poor. I grew up moving between apartments we had to go without food to afford even though they were hell holes to live in. I grew up in and out of homeless shelters. My parents worked their butts off to try to get us "out of poverty." My father has a master's degree in psychology from an accredited university. He couldn't find a good living wage job, despite that. Now I suffer from serious health problems because of how we lived when I was a child, but I'm still trying my damndest to "get out of poverty."

I appreciate your passion and strength you've exerted to get to where you are.

I doubt I had it as bad, growing up as the oldest of three sons in a lower middle-class family with difficulties of our own, and yes going hungry from time to time.

I chose long ago, as did my parents before me, to "not be a victim." But I am a victim of society's ills. That is a fact. I don't want to be treated like a victim. There is a difference. I don't want sympathy or underserved help for it. All I want is to survive, and find a little spot in the sun now and then, where I can find some small measure of happiness and get away from the derogatory, narrow minded class bigotry of people like you.

Do you honestly think I'm a narrow minded bigot for thinking citizens should have a sense of responsibility for their society's ills, instead of just accepting the fact that they are nothing but a victim of their society? Or do I risk my life for people who subscribe to the ideals that it is always someone elses fault in the government, and their personal actions and behaviors or lack thereof have absolutley no effect on the society in which they are either a contributor, or a victim?

The dead left in the wake of Katrina's path are comprised of people you know nothing about.

Are you sure?

As is true of anywhere, there were good folks and bad folks. Some of them could have gotten out if they had tried harder. Some couldn't. It doesn't matter. You don't have any moral authority that grants you the power to badmouth the dead.

If these people had a true sense of obligation to their communities, perhaps the levee would not have broken, and they would not be dead.

It could one day be your mother, your father, your brother, your sister, your child, your grandfather, your grandmother, your best friend... it could very well even be you.

That day may have come and past.

....... it could very well even be you.

A sacrifice I've already chosen to make, for complete strangers.

You aren't psychic.

Everyone is, they just don't know it, yet.

You can't go back in time and see whether people were sitting idly by while the storm bore down on them. You can't walk back to the day the levees broke, and watch as people who had been trying to get out of the city for the last three days but couldn't because they had no car, no means of transportation, not enough food to travel by foot, etc. wade through constantly rising water all around them.

If the people of New Orleans were attentive enough to look up and see the boats going by, and knew for 40+ years the levees were not capable of protecting them, do they not share some responsibility for the abandonment of the project that would have prevented this?

Bottom line: you don't know. Therefore, you cannot judge. Furthermore, you know nothing of what poverty in the United States of America entails, or you would know that the entire economic structure of the nation (and I don't care whether anyone believes that to be intentional or not, because I have no opinion on that) is designed in such a way that it makes it as hard as possible to "get out of poverty," no matter how quickly one decides to "not be a victim," and no matter how hard they try. It does happen, and it is possible, but a person born into poverty has the deck stacked against them. Unless you have lived it, you cannot understand that. If you have, then hats off to you for being luckier than most of us and finding a way to a better place in your life for you and yours. I am happy for you (and that is not meant to be sarcasm).

I'm sure it was not luck alone that got you from poverty to where you are now. Something within empowered you to strive for a higher cause, other than just your survival, or you would not demonstrate the powerful rhetoric you have, and in such a restrained manner, especially with the emotions you have towards the subject.

There are people much deeper in poverty than I am. For their sake I pray people like you can find and embrace a broadening of minds.

People like me, find and embrace a broadening of minds.

Before I tell a little about myself, I will let you know I am going to also give you a vote this day, because you deserve it. I thank you for your post and contribution, sincerely.

I love this country and it's people.

The last day of my last tour of duty in Iraq an 18 year old named Noef was brought in to the medics tent with a bullet in him.

He was a TCN (Third Country National) from Kuwait, but originally born in Saudi. He was 18 years old and driving a delivery truck for AAFES (Army Air Force Exchange) delivering toilet paper, which is not a highly used resource throughout the culture.

Noef was so determined to not loose his job, that paid him approximatley the equivelant of $100.00 a month. The best money he or anyone he knew was making (Noef said).

He was "car-jacked", and put up a fight for his livelyhood.

He was shot in the backside, so I could wipe mine.

I helped retrieve the bullet, and he was worried about being fired. (He also did not trust the female nurses)

My first day back in the states, four days later, I witnessed Americans succumbing to road rage and fighting in the streets for stupid disputes.

My first day back I broke up a fight where 2 fifteen year olds were beating up a 12 year old for no explainable reason.

After enduring 4 months in a war zone, I see these things my first day back, and just shake my head at the unnecessary drama that further creates ideologies ruled by fear and hate. I was hurt. Why were others just walking and driving by? Because it was not their problem?

I have on several occasions truly believed I was experiencing the final moments of my life. I've lost friends, and have had close friends loose more than their lives, if you can understand what it is I mean.

I have witnessed during 7 tours in 2 wars enough to know how much Americans take for granted.

And some days I like to see that the ideologies I'm willing to die for mean something to those I'm willing to die for.

I'm not the only one who serves you, that wishes you to help serve yourself, which in change helps us serve you.

I have no choice this day, but to follow the commands of those you help appoint over me. So, I believe it is not to much to want those whom I serve to acknowledge that they have some level of responsibility to their self, and their neighbors, to simply do what is right.

I need to believe in Americans.
I do believe in Americans.
I need Americans to believe in themselves.

Actions and Behaviors speak a lot louder than just words.

But, you have given words the actions and behaviors I sought.

If the residents were uninformed about the levees, they were ignorant (meaning they did not know)

If they knew about the levees and made no effort to fix them before they were broken, then they are not serving eachothers best interests.

I'm embarressed for America today.
I'm disgusted with America today.

I do not hold any one man, nor one organization at fault, alone.
I believe citizens should have an obligation to the society they belong to, or at the fundamental level, we are failing eachother.

At what point am I responsible for what happened with Katrina?
I have a sense of obligatory reponsibility for my fellow Americans regardless of anything.

And it is that ideology that drives me to say to others:
"Why is this someone elses fault, and why can't you help fix it, or help prevent it from happening again?"

I've been an enlisted member of the active duty Air Force since June 1998.
I'm a firefighter/EMT/Rescue Technician.

From 87 to 98 I worked/volunteered at a skilled care pediatrics hospital and also worked with the profoundly mentally disturbed.

Doesn't make me any better than anyone else, but I do take reponsibility for the needs of people, and have a sense of responsibility to others.

Ace, I thank you again for your words.

P.S. -
I live in Vegas, and we have a little sun we can share with you if you ever make it this way.

[edit on 8-9-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]