POLITICS: New Orleans: Incompetence or Population Control?

I agree.

I also think if survivors scavenge through the rubble before everything gets bulldozed it is not looting.

Once this storm hit, looting was the farthest thing from my mind, I could care less what what ended up in the victims hands, all I wanted to see was there quick evacuation of the citizens from the afffected area....

Originally posted by soficrow
Grady: This thread is full of information regarding Katrina's impacts, particularly on the poor in New Orleans. It is not about me or my politics. .

Yes you did work hard, but YOU include your politics in every thread. So its a relevant discussion.

Lets take a poke at your population controll theory shall we?

Reality #2: The basic major media premise all week has been that the 20% who were left behind were all black, and poor and the rich got out of town. This is simply put, nonsense – and racist. New Orleans is a poor city (more than twice the national poverty rate). Most of those who got out of town were not rich, and were not driving SUVs, as Tim Russert sneered on the air Sunday (in a disgracefully-conducted interview with Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff).


A little elementary math will address this canard. According to the 2000 census, New Orleans' population of 484,000 included approximately 136,000 whites, and 326,000 blacks. The white figure includes 7,000 Hispanics who classify themselves as white on the census forms. If 80% of New Orleans residents got out early – and this is the Mayor's number – then only about 97,000 residents remained. Assume all of them were black, (which of course they were not). That would mean that 229,000 blacks got out early, and 136,000 whites along with them. In other words, the successful mass evacuation substantially benefited black residents of the city.

At least 70% of black residents of New Orleans got out of the city before the storm (assuming 100% of those left behind were black), and undoubtedly more than that (since all those left behind were not black). It is almost certainly the case that the great majority of those who were left behind were black. There are obvious reasons for this, including the fact that New Orleans is overwhelmingly a black city to begin with.
www.freerepublic.com...

I can't believe some here seem to be intentionally focusing on the few street hood punks that caused problems, as they always do in any city that is in trouble, seemingly as an attempt to dance around the more important issue: the federal government FAILED MISERABLY to protect AMERICAN CITIZENS, period. The vast majority of those folks are law abiding citizens. They deserved a hell of alot better than they got. Everybody knew well before the hurricane made landfall that New Orleans would most likely be submerged.

There's no way the state would have enough resources to handle such a disaster, the military should have moved in force immediately as the last bands of the storm past, with food, water, and protection. There should have been no reason, or opportunity for looting. There should never have been a chance for armed gangs in trucks to travel an American city like it was Somalia. There should have been Apaches patrolling for such activity, and they should have been treated exactly like a truckload of insurgents in Iraq, and destroyed. That would have put a very quick end to that. If they want to fire on helicopters and innocent people, they are terrorists, and should have been treated no differently. We pay taxes, we pay for this military, and when we're in trouble, they need to be there IMMEDIATELY to help us. There is no excuse whatsoever for them not to be.

It is now more obvious than ever that the war on terror, and in Iraq, was never intended to protect American citizens, because when we are actually in trouble, our military is nowhere to be found, instead they're protecting corporate financial interests across the ocean. It took five days of intense public outcry, and a staggering amount of needless suffering and death, to get a response. *nuts to* that.

Mod Edit: Please do not bypass the censors

[edit on 9/8/05 by FredT]

Originally posted by FredT
YOU include your politics in every thread. So its a relevant discussion.

I don't think I do. And I don't think it's appropropriate for Moderators to participate in personal bashing OR to help derail threads.

Lets take a poke at your population controll theory shall we?

I trust you are going to make some point, eventually?



ATTENTION READERS:


The key words, hence key players, are Halliburtin - and Carlyle Group.


Whenever there's a concerted effort at thread derailment, scroll back to identify the trigger(s). Ask yourself, "What are they trying to bury?"


In this case, it was the suggestion of a possible connection between the Katrina fiasco, Halliburton, and the Carlyle Group (on another thread).

So there IS something there. I'll take bets on it.



Also - this.


'They're not giving us what we need to survive.' Jamie Doward reports on the fury of New Orleans residents who say they were ignored and mistreated by the authorities


"...As convoys of commandeered school buses and Greyhound coaches transported tens of thousands of refugees out of the submerged city yesterday, in a belated and much-criticised relief operation, each vehicle brought with it new tales of horror. ...Those trapped inside the two main shelters, the Superdome and the Convention Centre, paint a picture of a city that was subsumed beneath waves of violence, rape and death and accuse the police and National Guard of standing by, ignoring their pleas for help.

...The claims are rejected by the federal and state authorities, who instead suggest the looting and lawlessness which followed the extensive flooding of the city was the result of a series of isolated incidents perpetrated by a few. ...But it is clear from talking to survivors that what happened in New Orleans last week was far more extensive, bloody and terrifying than the authorities have admitted so far.

...'We had to wrap dead people in white sheets and throw them outside while the police stood by and did nothing,' .....'The police were in boats watching us. They were just laughing at us. Five of them to a boat, not trying to help nobody. Helicopters were riding by just looking at us. They weren't helping. We were pulling people on bits of wood, and the National Guard would come driving by in their empty military trucks.' "

and much, much more


.




[edit on 8-9-2005 by soficrow]

Originally posted by 27jd
I can't believe some here seem to be intentionally focusing on the few street hood punks that caused problems, ...the federal government FAILED MISERABLY to protect AMERICAN CITIZENS, period.

It is now more obvious than ever that the war on terror, and in Iraq, was never intended to protect American citizens, because when we are actually in trouble, our military is nowhere to be found, instead they're protecting corporate financial interests across the ocean. It took five days of intense public outcry, and a staggering amount of needless suffering and death, to get a response. F*** that.

Excellent post 27, thanks.

Did you read the article, linked above? Frightening!

Originally posted by soficrow
I don't think I do. And I don't think it's appropropriate for Moderators to participate in personal bashing OR to help derail threads.

How is this a derail? You put politics in the forefront and you assertions are being called into question by those who disagree. In as far as politics.........

Government created this crisis of confidence - now they're shooting Americans who are strong enough, and independent enough, to make their own way. Instead of applauding survivors for their Yankee gumption, the government is prosecuting. For shame.

Politics

This is forced interment - an ultimatum, not a choice.

More Politics and conjecture

I suspect the focus on "looting, raping, and murdering" is radically exagerated to justify pop-control measures. ...But no, I am not defending the criminals, just the people trying to hang on to their homes, and rebuild their lives.

More and More

But here's some straight talk I had NO idea was out there:

"Bush is a firm believer that looting should limited to the class of carpetbaggers and war criminals to which he belongs. He has no problem with the “no-bid” contracts and war-profiteering that has plagued Iraqi debacle from Day One. The $9 billion of purloined Iraqi oil revenue never even drew a raised eyebrow from our benighted leader, but the notion that that corruption might be extended democratically to everyone regardless of class -- now that’s the REAL crime as Bush sees it."

Yet across the media spectrum, the faint hint of disapproval drips from the affluent observers, the clear implication that the victims were just too lazy and shiftless to get out of harm's way. There is simply no understanding -- not even an attempt at understanding -- the destitution, the isolation, the immobility of the poor and the sick and the broken among us. "

Dead horses to the right Sticks to the left

you are going to make some point, eventually?

If you followd the link I cited I think I did.




[edit on 9/8/05 by FredT]

Originally posted by soficrow

I don't think I do. And I don't think it's appropropriate for Moderators to participate in personal bashing OR to help derail threads.

Yes you do soficrow, and unless things have changed moderators do have a responsibility to make sure submissions/threads give information instead of concentrating on "rumors", "propaganda", and "exagerations."

Originally posted by soficrow
I trust you are going to make some point, eventually?

I think his point was clear.

Originally posted by soficrow
The key words, hence key players, are Halliburtin - and Carlyle Group.


Whenever there's a concerted effort at thread derailment, scroll back to identify the trigger(s). Ask yourself, "What are they trying to bury?"

You always resort to this soficrow, when someone thinks differently than you, and calls on your exagerations you claim they must be working for the government or for Halliburton or Carlyle....

BTW, the french company I work for is called Schlumberger, do a little of research and you will find that Schlumberger is a competitor of Halliburton, and it is not controlled by the US government. I am getting paid too well as a field engineer (MWD) by Schlumberger to be doing anything else.

Originally posted by soficrow
In this case, it was the suggestion of a possible connection between the Katrina fiasco, Halliburton, and the Carlyle Group (on another thread).

Connection?.... What "connection" are you talking about now?.... Are you claiming that Halliburton and the Carlyle Group made Katrina happen, or the fiasco?....... I would like to see what sort of evidence you have that both the governor of Luisiana (Blanco) and the Mayor of NO work for Halliburton or Carlyle... because they are to blame for the slow reaction by the local authorities to help the people that were affected by Katrina.

Originally posted by soficrow
Also - this.

"...As convoys of commandeered school buses and Greyhound coaches transported tens of thousands of refugees out of the submerged city yesterday, in a belated and much-criticised relief operation, each vehicle brought with it new tales of horror. ..."

and much, much more

And that was the fault of the local government of Luisiana, the local governor, the Mayor and the Luisiana branch of Homeland Security which reports to the governor of Luisiana....

They could have used these school buses and other public forms of transportation to evacuate those people that didn't have any way of evacuating. They could have used all the lanes that went into NO for the evacuation. The governor shouldn't have taken 24 hours to decide whether or not to accept the help of the president.

The local government of Lusiana and the mayor of NO failed to do their jobs, and they failed to accept the help given to them by the federal government.

Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.
.................
Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said. As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.

Excerpted from.
www.washingtonpost.com...

If the governor of Luisiana had agreed to this, or if she and the Mayor of NO would have done their jobs properly, a lot less people would be in the situation they have been after Katrina.


[edit on 8-9-2005 by Muaddib]

"Yes you do soficrow, and unless things have changed moderators do have a responsibility to make sure submissions/threads give information instead of concentrating on "rumors", "propaganda", and "exagerations." "


I don't think that's the case or we would have no threads about aliens from outer space, unicorns, etc.

In a counry where 9mm bullets are cheaper than condoms.. i'd go for the population control.

As often happens, this article changed once I collected my research and started to write. It's not the piece I originally planned. In the end, I had one goal - to defend the rights of survivors who chose to stay behind. I was defending Americans' civil rights, and Americans' right to own property. I somehow identified with them, gut and soul, and I knew they could DO it - they could rebuild from the rubble, and claim their own futures. And I wanted them to succeed. I almost needed them to triumph, in the way that we take up a cause because it reflects what we want to happen in our own lives - it's deep down, intense, and personal.

The idea of 'population control'
was general: about how people are maneuvered and manipulated to serve
others' agendas - those on the ground in the middle of a disaster, through faraway, impersonal policies - and those looking on, through the media.

Now - I see a conspiracy.

The key facts:

1. There was no coordinated evacuation BEFORE disaster struck, but now that the danger is over, forced evacuation is suddenly essential.

2. The emergency action plan for the area was scrapped, but was not replaced with another emergency plan.

3. Residents' eye witness accounts say the military, police, and National Guard were out in force during the worst of the tragedy - but did nothing - just laughed at the survivors, and did not help.

4. Refugees say they were forced from their homes when authorities opened floodgates to purposefully flood their districts. Other residents report that the levees were bombed, releasing flood waters.

5. $250 million from the SELA (Southeast Louisiana) Urban Flood Control Program was diverted to Halliburton via KBR's Iraq contract.

6. KBR got the contract to provide debris removal and "other" emergency work associated with US natural disasters, in July 2005.

* Official reports and news coverage are full of other damning information, self-contradictions from official sources, and backtracking - all of which provide additional grist for a conspiracy theory.


It looks to me like the emergency action plan for the area was replaced by a strategy to render NO "beyond salvage," position Halliburton for another juicy contract, and likely, to justify moving the oil run to Houston, a geographically less suitable port for supplying the mainland.

It also looks like Halliburton's KRB was contracted to "clean-up" and level New Orleans - the contracts might be extended to landfill the city to sea level, and maybe, rebuild.

The survivors who chose to stay can't stay because NO needs to be considered ''completely destroyed,'' and depopulated for the land to be appropriated, so Halliburton and cronies can make hay. The survivors who chose to stay are in the way.


The questions I'm asking now are:

1. Just how much was the 'natural' opportunity tweaked, and how?

2. Did Carlyle Group broker the deal?

3. Does America accept the collateral damage?

4. Is this a crime against humanity, treason, or what?


Former FEMA Officials Speak Out
Planned Flooding?
levee was bombed by the Army Corps of Engineers
Poised to Profit from Katrina: Halliburton, Houston Head the List
New Orleans: Incompetence or Population Control?

I have a simple question for this Population Control spin.
For I think it was a form of that.. But i will ask this to see what people say.

Since say....... 1950 or so, name one other natral/man made distaster in the US that took 6 days to respond to?

If you can answer this question then we have no reason to talk about Population Control.

The sad reality is our government dont give a # about the poor people, why do you think that saying came up. "The rich get Richer and the poor get Poorer." There is something behind that.

Anyway answer my 1 question and we can safely assume that the population control idea is just that, an idea.. until then it stands.


Onto Caryle, Haliburton, and Controlled Demolition What do these 3 companies have in common?

Everytime the government screws something up they are there.
OK City, NYC and DC, and probably more that I dont know about and now Katrina aftermath.. Come on its not hard to get a clue, these companies are brought in to hide things from us... Important things..

But i just want this question answered.

Since say....... 1950 or so, name one other natral/man made distaster in the US that took 6 days to respond to?

Originally posted by ThichHeaded

Everytime the government screws something up they are there.
OK City, NYC and DC, and probably more that I dont know about and now Katrina aftermath.. Come on its not hard to get a clue, these companies are brought in to hide things from us... Important things..

But i just want this question answered.

Since say....... 1950 or so, name one other natral/man made distaster in the US that took 6 days to respond to?

Can't do it.