Water

I was wondering if it is possible to destroy water, not just down to the molecular level, but completely, so what im trying tosay is if we were to start using hydrogen cars, would we eventually run out of water? i know it goes in a cycle but is there some that doesnt completely make it all the way and is gone forever?

Ryan

Law of Conservation of energy - energy cannot be created nor destroyed.

You can't destroy the water. All you do is break the bonds between the hydrogen and oxygen and put them back together again.

Yeah, what they said. It'll all still be there, just really really hard to put together. There are also places in space we can mine it from, supposedly, Mars withstanding.

I took a 10 gal fish tank and sealed 3/4 of the top of it with lexan with a lexan wall also running down to within a couple inches of the bottom of the tank. Then I fill the tank with a very mild saline solution and vent all the air out of the hydrogen side so that it's filled with the water. The sealed side of the tank has a valve in it to extract the hydrogen and I just vent the oxygen into the air.

I run 12v DC from a Radio Shack phone adapter and just run it to a copper plate in the sealed side and large heat sink from a computer on the oxygen side. This process cracks the h2o molecule and you are left with pure hydrogen and pure oxygen atoms. Sure these may recombine in the future, but I do destroy water because after separation it is no longer water.


We filled a condom once and tied a piece of mylar to it so we could see it for as long as possible, but it soon shot up and out of sight.

If you want to build your own, make it in small amounts. I restrict mine to only a few liters at a time with an automatic release if it tries to make any more. Anymore than that can cause quite a hot orange flash if you light it. The flair is short lived and a mist of warm water vapor is left behind with little pieces of the condom slightly melted.

Anyone have any ideas how I could put this to other uses now that I have a way of making it???

it isnt hard to get water back together after you take it apart
hold a match to the hydrogen and it will go pop
then there is water

tiddly, yeah and hold a match up in nothing but oxygen and you become crispy.

Originally posted by Schmidt1989
tiddly, yeah and hold a match up in nothing but oxygen and you become crispy.

If the match is the only fuel in a room full of oxygen it would only burn the match very fast.
On it's own, oxygen can't burn.

Oxygen is a strong or hi-energy oxidizer, true,
but it is an oxidizer, so it is not a fuel, so they do not call it flammable.

www.newton.dep.anl.gov...

what i mean is 4H + O2 = 2H2O (cant put subscript letters in)

it is eaiser to make water than get it apart, and making water is what launches the space shuttle.

you gotta have something to react with the oxygen

hold up a match in a room full of oxygen and the match will burn out really fast. if u are stupid enough to hold on to it as it burns to the end, then like normal you will get burnt, albiet more severly.

does any one know if hydrogen or water powered cars are going to be only fuel cells or hydrogen reciprocating engines?

Couldn't you just have an engine that runs on burning hydrogen, then stores the exhaust in a water tank. The engine turns an alternator which gives a current to the water splits it back into hydrogen and oxygen. Then starts the cycle all over again? If the atoms are always still there, then this should be possible, is there not much power in burning hydrogen?

It sounds feasible on paper but I don't think so. That would be a perpetual motion machine which ain't possible. Energy would be lost in the transition from potential-mechanical-potential as sound or vibration from the "sloshing around". Small amounts of energy would be lost, so efficiency would not be 100% meaning that it's gonna stop some day.

Originally posted by Darkpr0
It sounds feasible on paper but I don't think so. That would be a perpetual motion machine which ain't possible. Energy would be lost in the transition from potential-mechanical-potential as sound or vibration from the "sloshing around". Small amounts of energy would be lost, so efficiency would not be 100% meaning that it's gonna stop some day.

True, that would be a perpetual motion machine. But maybe, some form of quatum mechanics apply here? If the atoms replenish the dimished energy from the quatum field, or wherever they get their energy from then it would be possible. I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a perpetual energy nut, but i always like to go back to stephen hawking. Blackholes have such an immense gravitation field that nothing can escape. Stephen hawking on the other hand, disagreed and worked out the theory that clouds of quatum particles are blown out from the black holes like dust clouds. No one has been able to disprove (either by observation or math) his theory. Which (as i said in the free energy topic) opens up a whole new realm of possibility. The law of conservation only applies if you understand all the mechanics and laws within a device.

Even if it doesnt have some kind of freak law that we dont know about yet, if it could still run for a week, or a month, it would be much cheaper and have 0 pollution. This might be something worth investigating.

Edit:

I forgot to mention that atoms are 1 angstrom across can absorb lightwaves which are 6000angstromish wavelength. The wave is bigger than the atom, and the atom SHOULDNT be able to do this. But it can. The atom is effectivly acting like a 2000 angstrom 1/3 length antenna. I haven't heard of this in mainstream physics much if at all.


[edit on 9-9-2005 by senseless04]

anxietydisorder, no if your in a room with nothing but oxygen, 100% oxygen level(say you could survive) then if you light a match the human body will catch on fire, your body becomes flammable once the oxygen level reaches over 25%.

If you go back and read my post you will see that I said the only fuel in the room was the match. You added the person to the equation, thus changing the outcome.

I will stand by the fact that oxygen is not flammable.

in the hydrogen combustion engine you couldnt split it back into H and O once it was water

the burning is an exothermic reaction, realeasing a set amount of energy, lets say 100 J

it take the imput of 100 J of energy then to split the water

this requires perfect energy conversion

meaning you couldnt use it to drive anything, as that would mean taking energy out. also loss through friction and such as well

you could do it for a little bit of the exhaust water, but not a lot

The engine wouldn't work because there would be too much energy loss from heat through the exaust etc.. A neat trick that I have done is to take a steel wool pad and heat it with a torch till it was red hot then drop it into a jar with pure oxygen. It burns like paper.

One of our members sent me a u2u asking about my fish tank that I use to crack water molecules into the separate atoms, so here it is.

I'm not very good with my Paint Program, but this is what I came up with:



Danger Will Robinson, Danger...You must use DC from an adapter, and not the AC that comes straight from the wall. I feed mine with 12 volts at 500 mA.

I'm not sure if the negative goes to the copper or the aluminum, I did it by trial and error and tested the gas to see what I had.

The hydrogen side of the tank is sealed with lexan pieces cut to size and put in place with silicone. The oxygen side is left open to vent off the oxygen because I have no reason to save it.

It's very important to leave a gap at the bottom of the wall between the two sides so the current can flow through the saline solution and also vent off excess hydrogen when the sealed side of the tank gets full.

With a valve on the hydrogen side you can extract the gas into a condom by adding water to the pressure tower which is also made out of lexan. I also have a lid on the top of my tower that I can seal and use a bicycle pump to push the hydrogen out the other side. (I use a condom because ordinary balloons tend to be a lot tougher to fill up and require more pressure to inflate)

If you have any questions, just let me know.

EDIT: I use about 1 tablespoon of salt to 10 gallons of water.

[edit on 10/9/2005 by anxietydisorder]

Originally posted by anxietydisorder

I'm not sure if the negative goes to the copper or the aluminum, I did it by trial and error and tested the gas to see what I had.

The oxygen side is left open to vent off the oxygen because I have no reason to save it.

EDIT: I use about 1 tablespoon of salt to 10 gallons of water.

[edit on 10/9/2005 by anxietydisorder]

Copper and aluminum doesn't make any difference, just + and -.

Be careful venting the oxygen side into a closed room because when you use salt in the water, you are producing chlorine gas.

Is blowing in the wind...

The Solar Wind, that is. You see, hydrogen goes up... and up... and away, in the solar wind. No production and distribution system is going to be perfect, so there will be leaks. How long would primary fuel use take to dehydrate the Earth? I'm too tired to work the numbers, but the answer should be out there on the Net somewhere. The answer to this question will determine if Hydrogen can be a green fuel. Younger and more vigorous sleuths, please enlighten us.

I use one tablespoon of table salt in ten gallons of water so that the current will pass through the water. The chlorine that is vented into the room is not a factor as far as safety is concerned. The quantity is very small.

With a 10 gal. tank and 12 volts you will not make anything that will kill you in your sleep as far as poison gas is concerned, and it won't blow you to Hell because there just isn't enough of it.
With my design you only have about 5 gallons of very moisture laden hydrogen at any one time.

This is more than enough to play with for the beginner.......

I have plans for a condenser similar to a still that will remove the moisture, but have not built it yet.


I think everyone that wants to experiment with hydrogen should always remember the Hindenburg.
This gas should be handled in accordance to its volatility, and everyone should realize the ephemeral and explosive nature of hydrogen if you plan to make it at home.

Never Underestimate Hydrogen It can store a lot of energy.............