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Is ATS anti-Bush or anti-anypresident?

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posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 02:44 PM
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I want to hear your thoughts. I see something like this:


"Response is slow, and there are more questions and answers regarding the evacuation of Katrina refugees. "

...and I wonder just what ATS has done for the victims of Hurricane Katrina to be pointing fingers. Have they done more than the president and all the national guard, the military, FEMA, and many many other charitable organizations he has called upon to assist? Obviously the poster of this picture and text thereafter has not been watching CNN and C-Span on a regular basis or has a political "selective hearing".

I'm not 'pro-Bush' but give the man a break. He is after all a human like you and I. Do you honestly expect him to be able to force everyone in the country to drop what they're doing and go on a disaster relief road-trip? I know I've thought about it, but it would bring the country to further ruin logically and economically.

Yes, I'm 'biting the hand that feeds me' here on ATS, but only because I want them to maintain as neutral of a stance as humanly possible.


[edit on 6-9-2005 by saint4God]




posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 05:26 PM
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Well, Clinton got kicked around pretty good and still does on occasion.

He was human too, all to human.

What would you like to have happen? When our "all to human" leaders step in it, just pretend it didn't happen. Some times the truth hurts us humans and if we can't take it we shouldn't place ourselves in positions of authority.

Some worship authority. Some question authority when it dosen't clash with their ideology. I personally have a real problem with authority figures because the usual reason they are authority figures is they like to push others around for some reason. And then they whine and call you names when you push back. "If you can't run with the big dogs; stay on the poarch!"

Neutral!! We don't need no stinkin neutral. Hoist the Black Flag!!


[edit on 6-9-2005 by whaaa]

[edit on 6-9-2005 by whaaa]



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 05:42 PM
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We'll find out when the next Democrat gets elected into office. I hope we have a lot of members still around from today when that happens (hopefully sometime after 2024
), just to see who's a "political hack" as a few members put it and who isn't.

ATS's political spectrum has been broadened quite a bit, though, so I suspect we will have quite a bit of anti-anypresident here. It's just going to be interesting to see what happens when the tables are turned on the right...If the tables are ever turned


la2

posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 11:10 PM
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I dont understand how Americans work, if Bush was a European Head Of State he would have been run out of office by now. Its great the way USA is so positive, however this presidency was doomed from the second the whole Florida debarcle took hold.

I really hope he proves the world wrong, but to be honest he is bad for the world as a whole and America's reputation globally is going to take decades to ressurect, its a shame.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by whaaa
Well, Clinton got kicked around pretty good and still does on occasion.


Ah, so ATS is anti-anypresident. Or perhaps pro-sensationalism? "Hey everybody, look over here! Can YOU believe it?" *gasps*


Originally posted by whaaa
He was human too, all to human.


Er, what's that mean? "I'm sorry sir, you have too much humanity to be president".


Originally posted by whaaa
What would you like to have happen? When our "all to human" leaders step in it, just pretend it didn't happen. Some times the truth hurts us humans and if we can't take it we shouldn't place ourselves in positions of authority.


What I'd like to see is fair representation of facts. If you cannot do that, then at least present both sides of a story instead of a propagandist's splash.


Originally posted by whaaa
Some worship authority. Some question authority when it dosen't clash with their ideology. I personally have a real problem with authority figures because the usual reason they are authority figures is they like to push others around for some reason. And then they whine and call you names when you push back. "If you can't run with the big dogs; stay on the poarch!"


I agree we should not worship authority. However, I think it's a bit prejudical to have a problem with authority figures because of the presumption that they pushed people around to get where they are. I'm sure the probability is in your favour but think it not to always be the case.


Originally posted by whaaa
Neutral!! We don't need no stinkin neutral. Hoist the Black Flag!!


Arrrrrgh!



ATS has a certain level of control and influence whether the hosts realize it or not. A kind of 'authority figure' all its own, if you will. We as members have to see whatever they post and if you think advertising doesn't work, I'm sure their federal income taxes or quarterly report will show differently. Alll I ask is for ATS to please post responsibly.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 07:57 AM
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It's not prejudicial to be highly skeptical of authority on a conspiracy site.

In fact, that's not strange for any media. It's their job.

There's no fair & balanced equal time for government screw ups and cover-ups around here or anywhere with credibility.

I'm sure we were all just tired of the infamous Clinton/Lewinsky ATS banner by now anway.

Sensational?

No.

Topical. Responsive. Reflective of our members informational needs, and if Google is any indication, the world.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 10:14 AM
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Interesting question; particularly in the face of the world, and suprisingly, the American, media doing there jobs and illustrating that so much negligence preceeded this disaster at the Federal level, it was as if by design.

Here's a great start

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

here's a synopsis

The plan to protect = Outsourced to a crony for big $$ , proved worthless
The real recommendations for improvements by ACE = slashed & underfunded by 83%
The "Expert Response" Agency = appoint a crony fund raiser & horse trainer
The CINC = grudgingly cut his vacation short to get "involved"
The NG units trained & raised in Miss. & NOLA = deployed policing an occupation after a war built on lies & can only wonder if their loved ones are dead

To show undoctored clueless expressions & quotes by this president is, quite frankly, being kind - so much more is deserved.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 10:40 AM
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pero mi pregunta...*clears throat* er sorry. But my question is does ATS have to follow suit with the rest of network news giving slanted opinion as fact? I'm hoping to encourage ATS to take the high road. A quote comes to mind:

"You have two choices in life: You can dissolve into the mainstream or you can be distinct. To be distince you must be different. To be different, you must strive to be what no one else but you can be." - Alan Ashley Pitt

The writing is on the wall. Literally! I'm copying it from the wall of the office I work in. Unfortunately we got bought out a few months ago so that's probably going to be painted over January 1. Ironic, no? I don't want ATS to suffer the same fate of dissolving into the mainstream of:



Love ya ATS, but present the facts, give us a round table, and let the members decide.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
Love ya ATS, but present the facts, give us a round table, and let the members decide.


The members write the news. So still not seeing your point.

You don't like that picture? That's your decision. I guess the members do decide.

I don't even know how to respond to the assertion a totally member driven news portal is "corporate" either. You think we bury stories on pharmco corruption because we accept Viagra advertising? Or don't debate peak oil because we sell Cadillacs?

The bee in your bonnet has no place to land friend. We're even openly discussing this topic about ATS right here on ATS. So... ?

This is what people do when they get together. It's not what Walmart thinks or the DNC thinks or the RNC thinks or the administration thinks or even what the three amigos think. It's what the collective "you" think.

Thanks for sharing your criticism. That's why we love ya. But you're one voice among many (as are we all). There's no "let's not offend the fringe" here. No patriotic or political correctness. Just a humble request for civility in discussion and thick skins as reasonable for such a diverse community.

But the pretty pictures shouldn't be the focus. Don't let that skew your perceptions or ability to contribute. There's no "essense" of ATS as regards leanings. It's a website. Of people. With opinions.

I mean we're looking at the modern Pearl Harbor having just ravaged a big chunk of the world totally off guard. It's not "partisan" or inept to stick the man in charge in the limelight and have ourselves a looksey. Do some reasearch; And then see what's up. I wouldn't trust FEMA to organize a square dance right now, and that's not anti-FEMA bias. Those are the facts. No agenda here but the truth and a free, fun, safe outlet for YOU to find it.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by RANT You think we bury stories on pharmco corruption because we accept Viagra advertising?


Given the randyness exhibited by Thomas Crowne, you & SO lately, I would suspect the free samples flow unabated!



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 11:55 AM
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He's talking about ATS, not ATSNN. There has been a large amount of conspiracies where Bush is at fault for anything from Katrina, oil prices, corruption in the UN, and the hangnail I yanked off that started bleeding. His question seems more along the lines of will this behavior continue when Bush is out of office and someone else is there, or will it stop when Bush is gone.

Myself, I don't think it will stop. I suspect there will be other players if a Democrat gets elected into the presidency, but the blame the man in charge for everything mentality will still exist. Since ATS didn't have the member base, if it even existed, during the reign of any other president, we don't know yet.

Come a democratic president, we'll see who the real political hacks on this website are.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 12:15 PM
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Well, I'm sure Saint can respond for himself, but it certainly reads like he's addressing ATS proper as to decisions like the highlighting of President Bush in the picture he showed or making the analogy we are like corporate media or asking what "ATS" itslef is doing to manage federal relief efforts (which is frankly a stupid comparison).

But I could be right.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by RANT
You don't like that picture? That's your decision. I guess the members do decide.


No they don't, it's still up there. I know I wasn't polled.


Originally posted by RANT
I don't even know how to respond to the assertion a totally member driven news portal is "corporate" either. You think we bury stories on pharmco corruption because we accept Viagra advertising? Or don't debate peak oil because we sell Cadillacs?


That thar was funny, thanks for keeping it light. I think though you answered your own question. It is indeed corporate if you're accepting money for advertising, following biased news and imitating. The advertising I can somewhat understand and notice how they are "target marketed" for our audience to throw fuel on the fire. Self-preservation I guess.


Originally posted by RANT
The bee in your bonnet has no place to land friend. We're even openly discussing this topic about ATS right here on ATS. So... ?


So I think I look cute in my bonnet and don't think I should have to take it off for any bee.


Originally posted by RANT
This is what people do when they get together. It's not what Walmart thinks or the DNC thinks or the RNC thinks or the administration thinks or even what the three amigos think. It's what the collective "you" think.


Yeah, but is it necessary to spike the punch in order to have a party? I guess so. It started this one eh?



Originally posted by RANT
Thanks for sharing your criticism. That's why we love ya. But you're one voice among many (as are we all). There's no "let's not offend the fringe" here. No patriotic or political correctness. Just a humble request for civility in discussion and thick skins as reasonable for such a diverse community.


Hehe, "suck it up kid". Message heard & understood.


Originally posted by RANT
But the pretty pictures shouldn't be the focus. Don't let that skew your perceptions or ability to contribute. There's no "essense" of ATS as regards leanings. It's a website. Of people. With opinions.

I mean we're looking at the modern Pearl Harbor having just ravaged a big chunk of the world totally off guard. It's not "partisan" or inept to stick the man in charge in the limelight and have ourselves a looksey. Do some reasearch; And then see what's up. I wouldn't trust FEMA to organize a square dance right now, and that's not anti-FEMA bias. Those are the facts. No agenda here but the truth and a free, fun, safe outlet for YOU to find it.


You wouldn't trust FEMA is a fact? I'm sure that's true, but here's another fact: There are a lot of people using their sweat and blood to help their fellow brothers and sisters. Sure, I'm not there, but I'm also not saying I can run the effort better. I say they, and their leaders, deserve a little respect for they do while you and I sit on our butts, watch football on our big-screen TV and complain about how hot the summer has been. The world can use constructive critism if any critism at all, but more importantly a helping hand. This bannerganda does nothing to help, rather does more harm than good.



Originally posted by JungleJake
He's talking about ATS, not ATSNN. There has been a large amount of conspiracies where Bush is at fault for anything from Katrina, oil prices, corruption in the UN, and the hangnail I yanked off that started bleeding. His question seems more along the lines of will this behavior continue when Bush is out of office and someone else is there, or will it stop when Bush is gone.

Myself, I don't think it will stop. I suspect there will be other players if a Democrat gets elected into the presidency, but the blame the man in charge for everything mentality will still exist. Since ATS didn't have the member base, if it even existed, during the reign of any other president, we don't know yet.

Come a democratic president, we'll see who the real political hacks on this website are.


Woot! Thanks JJ! Here's a man who gets it.




[edit on 7-9-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
He's talking about ATS, not ATSNN. There has been a large amount of conspiracies where Bush is at fault for anything from Katrina, oil prices, corruption in the UN, and the hangnail I yanked off that started bleeding.



Hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good whine! Pass the cheese!
Maybe not funding protections, appointing fundraisers to key positions, leaving the demand part of supply & demand unmolested so your buddies can price gouge where some Americans are forced to choose between oil vs. eating....maybe those facts are the genesis of posts, more so than team politics?


question seems more along the lines of will this behavior continue when Bush is out of office and someone else is there, or will it stop when Bush is gone.

Myself, I don't think it will stop.





We'll find out when the next Democrat gets elected into office. I hope we have a lot of members still around from today when that happens (hopefully sometime after 2024
),


Can you say self fulfilling prophecy? Yes, I think you can!


Perspectives kept insular to the disconnect between credo vs. action shortcomings are always going to be part of political discourse, because the very nature of tribal mentality is ingrained in us - the Bush phenomenon is a stellar example. There are advocates here who remain unmoved regardless of whether the dissenter was a life long GOP general or a directly appointed cabinet official in the Bush WH, blood from the same vein so to speak; just look at the dismisal, often derisive, that their respective accountings endured.
The salve that they apply to that cut in reasoning is that Clinton "got away with it".......as if $70M and 100's of Agents were not thrown at the vetting of his every action. Yet, they are the self same Constitutional Scholars swearing that Bush & team do not qualify for the same crucible test!!
It's a well worn track, Santo, and we're all figuring out how to resurface it, since Common Sense ain't getting the Lazarus treatment!



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by Bout Time
It's a well worn track, Santo, and we're all figuring out how to resurface it, since Common Sense ain't getting the Lazarus treatment!


I'm not concerned about a 'partisan fight'. I am concerned though about abuses of power as you'd mentioned in your last post. To post a partisan or pro-anarchy banner (as well as other nudges towards sensationalism) is very telling of the true purpose of the ATS site. A conspiracy perhaps? No, I don't think it's intentional, but think it's well worth notice to keep things objective and not subjective.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God To post a partisan or pro-anarchy banner (as well as other nudges towards sensationalism) is very telling of the true purpose of the ATS site. A conspiracy perhaps? No, I don't think it's intentional, but think it's well worth notice to keep things objective and not subjective.


But isn't it really subjective as to the yardstick you're measuring ATS by? This site makes no pretense in being Reuters or Knight Ridder, and as such, reflects its staff's flavoring of content....I'll be the first to call out that the staff has too high a number of White male conservatives. But compared to actual paid news heads, who interject their thoughts on how we should "feel" about a story, the ATS staff is at least on par, and far less culpable for it. The caveat emptor is that it's a discussion board and those infractions are countered and vetted via the very content those banners link to. I know, because I raised the same type of concerns over banners twice myself.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by Bout Time
But isn't it really subjective as to the yardstick you're measuring ATS by? This site makes no pretense in being Reuters or Knight Ridder, and as such, reflects its staff's flavoring of content....I'll be the first to call out that the staff has too high a number of White male conservatives. But compared to actual paid news heads, who interject their thoughts on how we should "feel" about a story, the ATS staff is at least on par, and far less culpable for it. The caveat emptor is that it's a discussion board and those infractions are countered and vetted via the very content those banners link to. I know, because I raised the same type of concerns over banners twice myself.


I'll buy that. I guess I was hoping for something a little more special out of ATS. Consider my conjecture closed and absolved. If ATS admits bias, who am I to say that that's wrong? Feel free to close thread unless others have something they'd like to add.

Nice work, Bout Time. I see it your way and can arrive at agreement.



posted on Sep, 8 2005 @ 12:46 AM
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I'm not anti-bush and I don't have a problem with the graphic. No one does everything right, so even a wildly pro bush person has to admit that he's open to criticism. This is one of those cases. We have a gigantic federal government, and its comletely useless in an emergency. Personally, I think it means that DHS or at least FEMA are pointless. However, I've been reading some disturbing stuff about just who this guy is who runs FEMA. His advancement is starting to reek of presidential nepotism.



posted on Sep, 8 2005 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
Love ya ATS, but present the facts, give us a round table, and let the members decide.

Thats hardly whats going on here, no one is being told to accept any position, however its stunningly obvious to the people who made that graphic that katrina wasn't a 'temporary disruption', and that it was a major failure on the part of the federal government that there wasn't an adequate and timely federal response. Thats really not 'bush bashing', and it certainly doesn't mean that fans of the president are going to be derided here.



posted on Sep, 8 2005 @ 07:18 AM
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Hopefully you'll not be a stranger around these parts!



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