So I am fed up with everything. The shady government practices, rules, laws, society, people, just about everything. I want my own society with my own rules and just be done with everyone else. What a pain in the Ass people are. So anyway to the point of my thread. I am also fed up with the DMV and driving laws. So I started thinking why do we need licences, and driving laws and plates and registration and insurance, and blah...why cant it be simple. I buy a car and drive on my way. So I am thinking who the [whatnow] let society pass stupid driving laws and when was it all ennacted and why? I wanted to know what kind of justification they gave to make people get drivers licences, plates, insurance, etc. And I wanted to know who said driving is a privelage. I bought the car, I pay the insurance (rip off btw) who are you to tell me how I can drive? I googled it, driving history, history of driving, history of driving laws, etc. Came up with nothing. Apparantely driving laws and licencing is just accepted by the mass of humanity. It doesnt make any sence. It is just like it happened one day and nobody #ing cared. I swear this is a [heckuva] dream world and history never happened. Any help on the history of DMV and driving laws would be great. I am too pissed off to continue looking, thanks.

[edited excessive profanity, even in Rant this is not permited -nygdan]

[edit on 6-9-2005 by Nygdan]

It's probably initially to do with the fact we're in charge of a huge machine which has the potential to harm others; it'd be just idiocy to allow everyone to operate one of these without them having at least basic profiency in the operation of the darn thing.

That's what your license is for, in part - it's proof that you've shown you're able to operate the machine with some level of competency.

To me, that's just common sense.

Driving is indeed a privelege, for the same reason. It's not a right. You don't have any inherent right to use a motorised vehicle on private property, public property or anything inbetween, really. I'm not sure why you'd expect that right?

Frankly, I don't want licensing to be taken away. I'd be frankly horrified at the notion of some idiot who can't operate his way out of bed, let alone a machine, being legally allowed to get behind a wheel and cause all manner of mayhem.

But that's just me.

As for road laws, most of these are also based on common sense...and that's largely because we are very obviously unable to act like reasonable humans when it comes to driving

(road rage sound familiar?)

(how about the idiots cutting you off on the highway?)

(that's why we have laws. It's to protect the rest of us from the idiots)

Idiots are still going to drive dispite laws. I can get down with a driving test, and then maybe they give you a certificate or something. That is fine. Show you know how to drive the machine. Ok.

Driving is indeed a privelege, for the same reason. It's not a right. You don't have any inherent right to use a motorised vehicle on private property, public property or anything inbetween, really. I'm not sure why you'd expect that right?

Why wouldnt you expect that right? Why is it even a right to begin with? Should be a freedom to drive.

(how about the idiots cutting you off on the highway?)

(that's why we have laws. It's to protect the rest of us from the idiots)

You contradict yourself right here. You know that idiots are still driving, yet you state that laws protect us from idiots. Hmmm....

[edit on 6-9-2005 by gottr]

LOL no, I don't contradict myself (it's fairly obvious to take note of the following: The law tries to prevent idiots from killing people with their repeated idiocy; if their actions are against the law, sooner or later their driving privileges will be revoked, and they'll be unable to drive. Simple)

But, this is your rant, so you go with it

I still have one question.

Why on earth do you think driving should be an inherent right, or freedom?

Just explain that one to me?

and they'll be unable to drive. Simple)

Wrong, again. Funny how some people refuse to think outside the box. The only thing it will stop is them having a licence. They can still drive.

You explain to me why it shouldnt be a freedom and I will explain why it should. As far as I can see there is no reason it shouldnt be an inherent right.

You're kidding me, right? You seriously are asking to be told why driving isn't an inherent right?

Legally: You have no right to drive a car. There is no precedent, no law, no statute and no local bylaw or equivalent which allows you, the citizen, an inherent right to drive a vehicle. End of story.

Socially/morally/ethically: You have no right to drive a car. For the same reasons, really; Would you grant someone the inherent right to fly a plane without a license? No, of course not. It's a privilege, and one which is granted based upon the applicant satisfying certain criteria. As it should be. Along the same line, you don't have an inherent right to perform surgery, either. You need a license to do so - and for good reason.

These are things which you do, by nature of your being born American, have a right to:

Life.
Freedom from slavery and illegal oppression.
Bearing arms (though this is dispusted elsewhere, but that's not the point)
The right to reproduce.

I think I've missed off a few, but I'm fairly certain that 'driving' doesn't appear anywhere on the list.

Now. You show me where you have the inherent right to drive a vehicle.

Sorry, this is so obvious to me it's a no-brainer.

You don't need a license or insurance to drive a vehicle, but you do need it if you want ot drive on the roads that are maintained and provided by the state.

This is where we differ, I will not characterize being born American. I am born human and have all rights that any free creature has. In that is the right to drive a car, or piss on your lawn. If I build the car from the ground up, and know how it works, do I have a right to drive it? Who defines what rights you are born with? People always want to put everything into a nice little box and label it.

You don't need a license or insurance to drive a vehicle, but you do need it if you want ot drive on the roads that are maintained and provided by the state.

You technically dont need it to drive. Plus we pay tax dollars to maintaine those roads.

My sister cant afford insurance so she wont drive or buy a car. Yet she has a hard time getting around without a vehicle. The reason she wont drive is because it is the LAW to have insurance, it is funny, that this LAW is opressing her yet she still chooses to obey it. She could go drive is she wanted too.

Originally posted by gottr
My sister cant afford insurance so she wont drive or buy a car. Yet she has a hard time getting around without a vehicle. The reason she wont drive is because it is the LAW to have insurance, it is funny, that this LAW is opressing her yet she still chooses to obey it. She could go drive is she wanted too.

Having insurance is a law because it protects us...

accidents happen, we don't want them to, but they do happen.
Now, what if your sister drove without insurance and had an accident?
You've admitted that she can't afford insurance, so I assume that she also wouldn't be able to pay for injuring someone or doing damage to thier property?

Sad to say, but insurance is a good thing and I'm glad its a law!

Yeah, she could phsically go drive a car if she wanted to, but then again, she'd be breaking the law...

Originally posted by gottr
This is where we differ, I will not characterize being born American. I am born human and have all rights that any free creature has.

You have the inherent right to live, eat, reproduce, and die, just like any other creature. Other than that...you're really, really going to find it hard to find any other creature which has the inherent right to drive etc....

(Whether or not you want to acknowledge being born American isn't the point - you are, and as a result actually have more inherent rights than many people in the world. You might want to bear that in mind)

My sister cant afford insurance so she wont drive or buy a car. Yet she has a hard time getting around without a vehicle. The reason she wont drive is because it is the LAW to have insurance, it is funny, that this LAW is opressing her yet she still chooses to obey it. She could go drive is she wanted too.

That's tough. I'm in the same boat - I just have to walk, cycle or use public transport. I also can't afford the Gucci jeans I keep seeing in a certain store in town; that doesn't give me the right to go in and take 'em off the shelf to wear around town without paying for them, just because I can't afford them.

Do you understand why the law requires insurance?

Do you understand that it's not about oppression?

Do you understand that - very simply - it's not all about you?

There are other people directly affected by your actions.

This might be a contributing factor, you know?

Do you understand that - very simply - it's not all about you?

It should be. That is why I posted the other thread, I am tired of playing this game. There is no reason why anyone should get in the way of me living my life. Yet I feel there is a law that prevents me from #ting in the morning, I have yet to find it though. I am tired of living in a society that is governed by laws.

I also can't afford the Gucci jeans I keep seeing in a certain store in town; that doesn't give me the right to go in and take 'em off the shelf to wear around town without paying for them, just because I can't afford them.

It doesnt give you the right to steal them because you already have that right. Rights are not given or taken away. They are always there. It is whether or not you choose to act on them. I have the right to drive a vehicle despite having insurance or a license, will I do it, maybe - maybe not. It would depend on my need to survive. Would I steal those jeans to survive yes. Would I drive my car without insurance if I needed to survive, absolutely. Sure have insurance, it keeps people safe, but if I dont get into an accident in 3 years, then give my federal reserve notes back.

Originally posted by gottr
I am tired of living in a society that is governed by laws.

There's your answer.

Leave.

Rights are not given or taken away. They are always there.

Exactly. And you driving, or wearing those jeans, are simply not rights.

Endastory.

I have the right to do whatever I want whenever I want = freedom. Simple. So I have the right to wear those jeans.

Originally posted by gottr


It should be. That is why I posted the other thread, I am tired of playing this game. There is no reason why anyone should get in the way of me living my life. Yet I feel there is a law that prevents me from #ting in the morning, I have yet to find it though. I am tired of living in a society that is governed by laws.

Good luck finding a country that allows you any more rights than what you have right here in the good 'ole U. S. of A! Unfortunately you weren't born to your own planet. You actually reside on a planet which has other people in it. If your #ting disturbs or harms someone else, you can be sure that right will be altered.

Welcome to earth my friend.

I refuse to except that.

You probably have never even left the country. You probably dont even know what other countries have for right or laws or whatever. You just believe what you are told. Then spit it back out on forums. That the USA is so free and so much better. I dont believe that. I bet there are places out there that are better or just as good. I will send you a postcard.

Originally posted by gottr
I have the right to do whatever I want whenever I want = freedom. Simple. So I have the right to wear those jeans.

See there's your big misconception.

You don't have the right to do what you want, whenever you want.

You have the right to wear those jeans - if you buy 'em. Just as you have the right to drive a car - if you satisfy the requirements in order to do so.

(do you realise you're one of the luckier people in the world, being born in the US?)

(and I say this as someone who wasn't born here)

This isn't argumentative, gottr - I'm just truly puzzled by your unwillingness to acknowledge the reality here?


Oh - and I was born and raised in another country.

What's YOUR experience with living outside of the US?

Originally posted by gottr
I refuse to except that.

You probably have never even left the country. You probably dont even know what other countries have for right or laws or whatever. You just believe what you are told. Then spit it back out on forums. That the USA is so free and so much better. I dont believe that. I bet there are places out there that are better or just as good. I will send you a postcard.

Who are you talking to here, gottr? Me? I actually have been out of the country. I grew up overseas.

You don't have the right to do what you want, whenever you want.

Says who? You? So I should accept this because you said so. What if you told me to jump off a bridge, should I do that also? We are living in a society that forces beliefs and ideas onto you instead of you coming up with your own. We are individuals each and everyone of us. We should not be forced to live in a society or conform because we were born into one. We are all individuals, something you say might be true for you but not for me, because my beliefs are different. Does that make either of us right or wrong? No.

This isn't argumentative

I think you might be fibbing a little here.

What's YOUR experience with living outside of the US?

No never lived anywhere outside the US, have no idea if there is anywhere better or worse. I didnt say I did though did I? That is why it leads me to believe you are being argumentative, why else would you bring this up? Are YOU generally concerned with my experiences outside the US, I doubt it. Or is it a lead in so you can tell me how horrible your living conditions were. Doubt that also. Really you had no point, and no reason to say this except you want to argue. I am growing weary of this.

this is someone who is upset because they broke the law, got caught, didn't act appropriately and now has to pay for it.

They're not going to listen to anything that we try to say, they just want to argue about it.

Originally posted by gottr

Says who?

The law of your land. Obviously. That's who

I think you might be fibbing a little here.

I'm sure you do. I don't agree with you, I'm asking for reasons why you disagree, so I'm obviously being argumentative, in your eyes.

No never lived anywhere outside the US, have no idea if there is anywhere better or worse. I didnt say I did though did I?

No, you simply implied that other posters, not having lived anywhere else or had any experience with the laws elsewhere, had no right to comment.

I merely raised an objection, as I do have experience elsewhere. Nothing more, really.

You probably have never even left the country. You probably dont even know what other countries have for right or laws or whatever. You just believe what you are told. Then spit it back out on forums. That the USA is so free and so much better. I dont believe that. I bet there are places out there that are better or just as good.

Your words - not mine.

*shrug*