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I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp

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posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by AgentSmith
This may have been covered already and I apologise if this is the case (I need to catch up with it all!), but is there any way that you can try and arrange an interview maybe with one or more of the refugees?
It would make a good podcast and might answer a lot of questions and maybe even put some rumours to rest.


Well, to catch you up, there aren't supposed to be any refugees at the Falls Creek camp yet. It was put on hold. Maybe there is an ATS member who lives close to Camp Gruber who could do this, but that's quite a drive for me!




posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by CatHerder

Act like a jerk? Why do you have to turn to personal insults? It's ok to be WRONG Val. It's ok to be WRONG...

I'm asking for proof that it's a detainment camp (YOUR words). I'm asking for proof that there are people being held against their will. I'm asking for proof that this is nothing more than a place for people to live for a few months until they can go home or move to a new home or new jobs.

Nobody here, and nobody in the media has called it a detainment camp, nor has anyone said anyone was moved there against their will. Except for you implying that this was the case.


[edit on 10-9-2005 by CatHerder]


Ok, first of all, No one has said that 100% that this is a full blown detainment camp. This is a conspiracy thread board right? Yea, i figured so.

Isnt the whole point to post our eye witness accounts and determine the truth???????????????

Look, no. No one is being held against their will. Why? Well shockingly enough after this article hit big on the net the camp got slammed into a hold status. But the FACTS are, that both Valhall and myself were there and it was explained in great detail several times that people WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO LEAVE UNLESS THEY COULD PROVE THEY HAD FAMILIY TO LIVE WITH.

Now. If you cant leave at will, how in the hell do you get a job?

What car do they drive to work?

They dont. If you cant leave, you cant get a job. Further more you are in a foreign state, being sent to a place many do not want to go. So you would think that maybe.. JUST MAYBE.. They dont want to work there anyways.. They want to be HOME.

I'm 21 years old, and the feeling that it gave me to be inside that camp caused to say what Valhall quoted me as saying. "Welcome to Nazi Germany". Thats what it felt like. Thats what the rules lead me to feel like. Everything that you have ever watched on TV or read in a history book seemed to be unfolding right before my eyes. And it was sickening.

I mean, i find your questions absurd as they have already been answered several times.

Let me explain it and spell it out for you.

"Find a new home"
Cant. Their family isnt here, remember? They didnt live here and most of the people are too poor. (Hint: Thats why they are refugees)

"Get a new job"
Cant. They have no car and no means out because they cannot leave unless they have family (which lives states away) to live with. (If they even have a house left too)

Its a catch 22. They say you can leave if you have family, but you never had family and thats why your a refugee.

They say you can leave when you get a job, but how are you supposed to drive to your job or interview or even the employment agency if you cant leave the camp????

I sure hope this answers your questions, cus people already seem to be tired of repeating the same EYEWITNESS FACTS to you. Because Valhall has told it just as we saw it and the only thing she ever got wrong was by quoting my nazi germany statement wrong.

[edit on 11-9-2005 by ThermoNuke]



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 01:55 PM
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If everybody doesn't mind, I would like to quote the OEMA employee's response to this thread. I think it needs to also be in this thread for a couple of reasons:

1. We have visitors coming to this thread who may not travel anywhere else in ATS land, so I don't want them to miss the explanations provided.

2. The explanation addresses several of the comments and questions brought up in this thread.


posted on 9-11-2005 at 12:48 Post Number: 1678054 (post id: 1699947)

Rebuttal to "I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp

If I may break down the report that was posted about our facility as Falls Creek in Oklahoma.

Page 1 stated: I packed up two car loads of us and headed over to Falls Creek. In the Emergency Management Community we have asked the population over and over not to "self deploy" and the following reason are given for such request.

Prior to Jesse Jackson making his comments our Governor and the State Officer of Emergency Management asked all Oklahomans to please refrain from using words such as refugees and displaced people. We were asked to use the wording "Oklahoma Guest". This went out on the media here in Oklahoma and in print.

The author of this report continues to use the term refugee throughout the paper.

One of the primary reasons for using Falls Creek was the picturesque area and having the ability by faith-based groups to allow these folks the ability to put their lives back to normal, as much as possible, without having the press and lot’s of concerned citizens hound them for interviews and “how was it”.

We knew from the start that we needed additional security at the site so Oklahoma Highway Patrol officers were assigned in double shifts to protect those “guest” from the media and other “well concerned citizens”.

She states her daughter “turned and snapped a picture of his vehicle (Page 5)—very conspicuously”. There was no reason for some James Bond type of picture taking OHP officers are very friendly and will allow their photo’s and that of their cruisers to be taken.

The reason (page 7) for not allowing clothes was the fact we need to ensure they are clean and in good order. We have over the years at disasters received soiled and dirty diapers, ripped clothes and other related items by well meaning citizens. We now have retired ladies who help us select clothes that can be used by these folks. I have photos’ of thousands of clothes at Fall Creek that were standing by ready to be delivered to these folks.

(Page 8) The occupants of the camp cannot leave the camp for any reason. That is true once they were placed on the busses we had no way to determine their medical status. They have been exposed to several elements and prior to allowing them off camp we wanted to have them checked out by the Doctors and Nurses we had lined up at Falls Creek (Page 15 the people in the blue jump suits). We also had 22 ambulances standing by for medical emergencies. We had a similar camp in Northern Oklahoma and had 4 medical emergencies the night these good folks arrived and they needed immediate transport to a local hospital. Many of these US Citizens arrived with pre-existing medical conditions.

The reason your “pop-tarts” were accepted is they are sealed in an enclosed package and are “tamper proof”. We are trying to protect our Louisiana friends from the criminal element and bad people that might want harm done to them. This is the reason Apples and Oranges were not allowed. I wonder if this lady allowed her children to go around on Thanksgiving and accept open candy from strangers.

Oklahoma never had the intention of accepting 5,000 guests (page 9) as she stated. Our cap and the cap that our governor worked out was 3,000 at falls creek. This is the maximum number of meals, toys, clothes and other related things that needed to be in place prior to our guest arriving.

The Cell phones were put in place by our Office of Emergency Management due to a request of our emergency workers since cell phone coverage is so poor. Cingular and others donated the towers and equipment including the coverage. We also place these cell towers at Falls Creek so once the people were on their feet they could start calling loved ones throughout the country and inform them they were OK.

The toys she refers to must first be checked. We have had “Christian groups” donate toys such as swords, toy guns and other devices that usually mean harm donated to our causes over the years so we check them closely before allowing any kids to play with them.

The meals were going to be provided by the American Red Cross and the Salvation Army. We at the Health Department were requiring that they eat hot food with plenty of vegetables not the “junk food” that this lady stated she was brining. Snacks were to be laid out during the day and night for their use, but meals which included the basic food groups were required 3 times a day.

If you have any questions concerning Oklahoma intent please feel free to give me a call at PHONE NUMBER REMOVED DUE TO FREAKS! Monday through Friday.

Ed Kostiuk
Oklahoma State Dept of Health
Emergency Management


www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 9-12-2005 by Valhall]



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 02:20 PM
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Valhall
Indeed, I just read that other thread, and replied with interest. I was going to provide a link to it on this thread, but you beat me to it.


I thought it was pretty cool that Ed took the time to respond, I guess it's just policy since this thing blew up in their faces, but I still thought it was nice.

Some of this explanations still don't hold water, but at least FEMA is on record on ATS now. That counts for something anyway.

I think he got too many responses, he's not going to be able to reply to them, but I had some questions for him. I think he's involved in Bioweapon containment, or some similar field, so I asked him some questions about NOLA labs storing biological weapons like anthrax and plague.

I think that may be the root cause for all the quarantine procedures. FEMA may still be trying to figure out who's got what. Doesn't excuse everything, but it's a good start to making sense of the seemingly nonsensical government stance on certain issues, like freedom of movement for the refugees, and the prohibitions against civilians interacting with the refugees.



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 02:34 PM
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Val, you are the best.


When you have "Officials" answering back that means that the word and the importance of your first accounts experience is reaching everybody out there.

Your accounts are like Rant said Honest, I will add, believable, real and trustworthy.

You rock girl.


Keep the good work, I may not post much but I am reading every page of this very good thread.



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 04:51 PM
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I've read this, over and over.

#1. I don't feel it's a detainment camp.

Why?
Just because they have strict rules, doesn't mean they're trying to break anyone down, and starve them to death.
There are going to be a large number of people, and order MUST be kept, otherwise those people could overrun the place.

#2. They can't cook for themselfs.
I understand this, some cabins may stockpile food that is more nutritious, and another cabin's inhabitants may stockpile food not so, and someone hears "cabin 14 had steaks!" well #, we only had hot pockets, that's b.s.!
It can lead to some real trouble, it'd be a real media nightmare, so they're making sure they all get the same thing, to treat them equally in this manner.

#3. Issue with the clothes.
Let's be reasonable here, there were ALOT of people who were left homeless, and NOONE can replace, or be expected to, theyre entire life savings, clothes, etc, so these people get what they get, as it's donated, and they're trying to make sure everyone gets an equal amount of clothing, etc, without one person having the BETTER of the pick... this could indeed cause a riot...think about it, someone who was just LOOTING, goes into a place, and is given mediocre clothing, and one person gets high end brand name.. this situation would be just like prison...and I know, I've been locked up for 18 months, I know how easy it is to snap in there...myself included.

#4. They can leave, but can't come back.
Well no *way*, this isnt a ** free for all come get whatever you want *funny* flea market.

Mod Edit: Removed Profanity

[edit on 9/11/05 by FredT]



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by Selective_ID
I've read this, over and over.

#1. I don't feel it's a detainment camp.

Why?
Just because they have strict rules, doesn't mean they're trying to break anyone down, and starve them to death.
There are going to be a large number of people, and order MUST be kept, otherwise those people could overrun the place.

#2. They can't cook for themselfs.
I understand this, some cabins may stockpile food that is more nutritious, and another cabin's inhabitants may stockpile food not so, and someone hears "cabin 14 had steaks!" well #, we only had hot pockets, that's b.s.!
It can lead to some real trouble, it'd be a real media nightmare, so they're making sure they all get the same thing, to treat them equally in this manner.

#3. Issue with the clothes.
Let's be reasonable here, there were ALOT of people who were left homeless, and NOONE can replace, or be expected to, theyre entire life savings, clothes, etc, so these people get what they get, as it's donated, and they're trying to make sure everyone gets an equal amount of clothing, etc, without one person having the BETTER of the pick... this could indeed cause a riot...think about it, someone who was just LOOTING, goes into a place, and is given mediocre clothing, and one person gets high end brand name.. this situation would be just like prison...and I know, I've been locked up for 18 months, I know how easy it is to snap in there...myself included.

#4. They can leave, but can't come back.
Well no s***, this isnt a f***ing free for all come get whatever you want f***in flea market.


I think you should contact Ed - he left his phone number. The group he works for probably has a position open for you.

[edit on 9-11-2005 by Valhall]



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 05:21 PM
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Awesome report. Sounds and looks like a real internment camp.

FEMA is all about caging the masses.



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Administrative update:

I thought those active in this thread might like to know that the first page is being displayed an average of 1.32 times every second since it was first noticed in a big way Friday morning. There are 239 distinct websites covering this material and linking back to ATS.


Just wanted to let you know that I moderate a forum on Delphi & have this message posted as the featured story with a link back to ATS.
I believe that it is very possible they put the whole thing on stand down because of this story & the publicity it is getting.



posted on Sep, 11 2005 @ 07:43 PM
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Thanks Folks- This is what our forefathers meant when they called us to be vigilant to preserve and defend our freedom from all enemies foreign and domestic.
One entry found for[B] vigilant.[/B]
Main Entry: vig·i·lant
Pronunciation: 'vi-j&-l&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin vigilant-, vigilans, from present participle of vigilare[B] to keep watch, stay awake, from vigil awake
: alertly watchful especially to avoid danger
synonym see WATCHFUL
- vig·i·lant·ly adverb[/B]

(♦Per Merriam-Webster.)



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 01:07 AM
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Ok, i read the original post and pics. It was interesting, but whats the point? Whats the conspiricy? Of course you cant just walk in and drop whatever you feel they want, whereever you want it. They need to maintain control. If they are expecting those kinds of numbers, there HAS to be organization. You (valhal) even admitted your error trying to leave toiletries for women in a mens only dorm.

What next? women clothes to? No, rather, they have lots of clothes. The process them, arrange them by size and make sure that EVERYONE gets what they need. If you leave random bags, people will be fighting for the cool shirt and shoes.

You cant just walk in and give em food. Who the hell are you? How does anyone know that your not a racist who laced it with poison? No, they handle that.

You sounded like you were on a crusade to save them from starving. If thats the case your a week to late. Now that order is being restored, the last thing they need, is everyone dropping in where ever they feel like, bringing whatever they feel like. There has to be organization.

As mentioned previously, no you cant just come and go as you please. The reasons are right. When will you back? What about your empty bed? Not to mention, who knows what kinds of diseases and viruses these people have. Better to keep em there (remote) then unleashing them on the populace.

Considering what you spent on food, toiletries, clothes and the gas to get there, you guys could have just cut a big check to the red cross, or someone else if you dont trust them. It sounds like you went there looking for a fight. You said you even brought your camera, incase the red cross gave you a hard time.

Why not stay out of the way and let the people do their jobs. Why not do what has been asked, and donate cash?




That being said, your a good person for trying to help and Im not slamming your efforts, but I just dont see much of a story here. Alls youve shown is some pics of an empty camp waiting to help some people and a couple of cop cars. I dont see how you can call this a detainment camp.



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 01:46 AM
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I think the people within this camp - Americans, used to their freedom - now feel like prisoners. For sure they not only need assistance in housing, employment and food relief, but also spiritual and emotional support.

Val, your motive was to help one another, to reach out to your "guest-neighbor“ with love, care and compassion.

I think you reached a lot. Your familiy not only showed those poor people that they are not alone. You also sent out a mesage into the world:
We are our brothers and sisters keepers.


[edit on 12-9-2005 by Riwka]



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 09:55 AM
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But I just had to comment on this thread. Excellent!

I live in Alabama, and when all the evacutions started, the local govenment stated that FEMA would be renting space in Guntersville State park and placing motor homes and travel trailers on site for the evacuees to stay in. Interestingly enough, last night on the news, one local official came on and stated that they would NOT be placing these evacuees in our area because of concerns that these people would be carrying some sort disease outbreak. YIKES!


I want to help these folks just as much as anyone, but not at the expense of our own local public health. It is kind of a catch-22.

Dusty



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 11:06 AM
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The official government rebuttal aside - this remains the most important thread on ATS, IMO.

Seems to me that the eyewitness reports and personal accounts are going to be our BEST source of honest information about this catastrophe. And I really don't want to hear any "your sources suck" arguments.

I found this eyewitness account mesmerizing. It's posted by subtle on the wecomeinpeace thread "Disbelief - Former FEMA Officials Speak Out."

www.abovetopsecret.com...

QUOTE (excerpt)

- By Monday afternoon, Katrina passed and all was good. The French Quarter, where my counsin was at, suffered just minor damage.

- Tuesday, people that stayed in New Orleans but did not go to the SuperDome, came out, surveyed the damage, some were partying, others had cookouts, everyone breathed a sigh of relief.

- Wednesday, the levees broke and the flood started. Everyone was in shock and couldn't believe it.

- By Thursday, many parts of New Orleans was flooded but not "the entire city" as the media reported. The French Quarter had very little to no flooding. The Garden District, where Tulane and Loyola are, had about 1 to 2 inches of flooding and severe tree damage.

END QUOTE


.



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 12:03 PM
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You know - I can't help but sympathise with the FEMA staff handling that camp. I live in Minneaplis, and we have had several cases in the past years where poeple have slipped pins and razors into Haloween hand-outs.
Can you imagine if there were people in Oklahoma that might do something similar in the food breing brought in?
But everyone lambasts FEMA for taking the simplest precautions such as not allowing food not in tamperproof containers.



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by cryoruggie
I live in Minneaplis, and we have had several cases in the past years where poeple have slipped pins and razors into Haloween hand-outs.


Do you have a source for this please? because i was under the impression it was an urban myth. i would like to see some (several?) news stories, if you have links to them.

thanking you in anticipation.



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by cryoruggie
You know - I can't help but sympathise with the FEMA staff handling that camp. I live in Minneaplis, and we have had several cases in the past years where poeple have slipped pins and razors into Haloween hand-outs.
Can you imagine if there were people in Oklahoma that might do something similar in the food breing brought in?
But everyone lambasts FEMA for taking the simplest precautions such as not allowing food not in tamperproof containers.


You know, I have not missed that the list of reasons to be grateful for FEMA continues to grow. Please understand I am paying attention. So far we should be grateful that FEMA is:

1. Protecting the refugees from rioting and killing each other.
2. Protecting the refugees from the outside populace bent on killing them with dirty and poisonous donations.
3. Protecting the outside populace from the infectious refugees.

I'll update the list as the reasons continue to come in.



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 01:45 PM
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I would suppose that the military are there for oen reason alone---intimidation. Of course, the official reason might be that they are seen first thing to "establish a security presence," or something of the sort, but really that's just a niced-up way of saying that they are there ---in a highly visible manner---in order to intimidate people.
---Ryan


xu

posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 02:06 PM
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great article and great contrubition



I just wanted to point out that David Icke Headlines page is featuring your article and linking to this page, I dont know if anybody else mentioned that in the previous pages though. I dont really care what Ickes other theories are but that headlines page is mostly formed of well gathered and sourced articles from around the web. so



posted on Sep, 12 2005 @ 04:24 PM
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Val - Really good post. The rebuttal from Ed might be genuine, but the attitudes that it reveals are sadly mistaken. Let's take the Halloween candy myths: Snopes has some good research here and here that shows the likelihood of that happening to be far short of a credible threat.

The story told by subtle is available on the web as a very good photo essay. I won't post the link, because subtle might be protecting his cousin's identity, but it is being widely circulated.




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