I don't think that anyone---man or woman---wants a pushover, at least it sounds dull to me. Do women like guys who are assertive and self-confident ? For the most part I would guess that they do. That does not mean they want guys who are brash and arrogant, there's a fine line. Now, as a guy, do I want a woman who is self-assured and confident? Absolutely. But do I want one who is bossy and overbearing? No way. Again, a fine line. I think self-assurance and enough confidence in who you are to know who you are (if that makes sense) in an attractive quality we all seek in others, whether we are male or female, as long as it doesn't veer overboard , since there can be a bit of a fine line sometimes between self-confidence and self-absorbtion.
---Ryan

Originally posted by orangetom1999
you have me chuckling to myself here!!

Also you must be sure ..absolutely sure in your actions. This is what women appreciate and respect. The reason one must be sure is that women tend to get highly emotional in many of these debates of this type. This to them is what passes for correctness and being right.

This is absolutely correct.

One woman told me years ago..that when I do certain kinds of work my eyes take on a different view...a concentration/focus. Its like a radar lock on in a Jet fighter. You concentrate so hard and naturally you dont want to lose focus/lock on what you are doing. Intense is the word she used to describe it. She found it hot in her own way.

Intense is the right word... It is very much a turn on. When he was taking apart that fence it was just so weird to me because i've never seen him perform in such a physical way, he's more of an intellectual and works with his noggin. And when he asked me how many blows I think it would take for him to knock the fence down, I was being sarcastic and said 3 but really thought about 7 or 8... but to my amazement he got it down in two...woah.. i just stood there stunned and yet overjoyed that i had a very strong man on my hands that I didn't think I had! If I didn't have bones to hold me up I would of fallen over. And it made that moment very intriguing to me and if he would of let me jump on him right then and there I probably would of done it.

As to bossy women..I dont have a problem with them. Thats the easy part. It is the subtle woman one about which one has to be very sharp. Very difficult to detect if one is not in top form....very difficult. I've got to give them credit..they can be smooth as properly aged wine.

I guess I shouldn't of used the word bossy, as i'm not demanding, only when i'm being goofy with him. What I meant was it seems like he gives me my own way alot of the time because he says he doesn't want to make me mad. That sends up a flag to me. We compromise on things and we both make decisions about important things. sometimes he does what he wants and i do what i want or we agree. but just because i don't agree with him he thinks i'm raising a stink. no, i'm just telling you i don't like this or that because... and then i state my reasons. but he says ok all to easily. and when it comes down to that, I just can't continue with my decision, i have to know what he's thinking, what his opinion is, and see if we can't agree with something. i'm not trying to be bossy, or get my way, it's simply not liking something for a reason, i'm not mad at him or mad at his decision. i'm not that kind of person.

Although when it comes to small things around the home, I do expect him to pull equal weight, as I too hate cleaning and doing laundry. that probably when i get the most mad, when i see him lounging around while i'm vacuming the dog hair up and doing loads of laundry.

he is getting better, and i don't know if thats because he doesn't want me to get mad or he realises i'm right when i get mad..

[edit on 7-9-2005 by TrueLies]

Originally posted by mr conspiracy
Furthermore, they are always looking for men's reactions. They seeks approvals of what they wear, eat, say, walk, and so on. "How do I look" type of inquiries are often on their mind.

Perhaps mr conspiracy if you dished the compliments out every once in awhile, your prior experiences with women wouldn't have to ask?!

Men are this way too... Brian will decide to make dinner one night and if I don't compliment him first, he goes fishing... I don't say anything sometimes to just wait and see if he asks for a compliment.. I think it's cute.

Same with attire when we go out, if i don't compliment him he asks.. 'does this look ok' or 'should i wear this'

it may not be one of those 'does this make me look fat type questions, but guys want to know and they equally like to be complimented whether you want to admit or not... it makes you feel good, and there is nothing wrong with feeling good.

That doesn't make you a mouse

If you want to dress for a man, all it takes are tight pants and a low cut shirt.

The kind of man that I like is simple... I could wear one of his dress shirts and that's it, and that's all it would take. even a ratty pair of boxers and one of his t shirts would get him going.

the kind of man i'm attracted to also finds low cut shirts and tight pants on women to be cheap, cheesy, and phoney as hell. Does this give the impression that women are looking for just a romp in the hay? Or are they looking for the type of man thats opposite of what they really want because they dont know any better yet?
If you dress that way, chances are your going to get a guy who puts way too much gel in his hair, reaks of cheap cologne, may have a potty mouth, and probably not the largest volcabulary either. Not my cup of tea.

I have no idea why some women dress like trashy ho's, because I most certainly don't. I had enough of men talking to my chest by the time I was 14 to last me a lifetime.

But the men who chase the girls that do dress this way deserve exactly what they get. A shallow woman who will manipulate you through sex or lack thereof.

Well said! Lackthereof is probably the most powerful control tool of all, since then she/he can manipulate the other person into doing just about anything on the premise of the mere promise of sex. Pretty sad if that's the kind of relationship two people have, but hey, from what I can tell it seems to be fairly common. Further proof of my theory that msot couples are together not out of love, or even companionship, but just because they are afraid of being alone.
---Ryan

[edit on 7-9-2005 by RyanC]

Duzey,
We have a problem you and I. I find myself agreeing with you entirely to much. I would once again be hard pressed to debate the opposite position here.
You posted:

"It has been my experience that most women dress to impress other women. We are the ones who worry about fashion, not men.

If you want to dress for a man, all it takes are tight pants and a low cut shirt. But to impress another woman with your outfit; now that is a true accomplishment!"

My woman took me to her company party. It was very intresting to see the women when I was sitting near the entrance ..observing the other women. Not the men per se...they gave them mostly a passing glance. But the other women entering were closely scrutinized. After awhile I realized there was something very primorial about it like chickens and a pecking order in the barnyard. Talk about wildlife in its natural habitat...the nods of the heads or the shake of disapproval. Do psychologists have a name for this type of behavior.?? I got to witness this raw...unedited...lol lol. Best seat in the house.

Oh and Matrix ..yes men can tell what a woman wants. You have to be able to think in avenues other than sports and the swimsuit edition. I never read the sports page..it is the first part of the paper I discard. I never buy the swimsuit edition either.

As to how many women dress..I agree with Tinkerflower or was it True Lies making the point. Many dress like a advertising billboard. Like trolling with a fishing lure to see how many bites they can get in the pool.
I am not trying to be smug or facitious but I have not found it difficult to get women to come over and take off their clothes. My point is what is the commodity of real value they have to offer. It is not sex or taking their clothes off. I do know some women for whom this is their main skill/talent in life. Its not enough for me. A woman who dresses like this often is not impressive to me.
By the way ..the woman I am seeing is a apartment manager. She tells me that she often has to tell her female employees to dress conservatively and professionally not like they are going out on Friday or Saturday clubbing! So many of them dont seem to have the mental capacity to know the difference. Could they also be "hunting and gathering " in the workplace??? Is that professional??? These women dont usually last very long in my womans office enviornment. If they arent professional to her she will weed them out.

As for cooking, cleaning,and taking care of the house. I do that myself. Been able to do it since my younger years. My Mother made sure of that ..Pop too. I am grateful to them for this. All men should know how to clean and cook.
I actually like to knock around the kitchen when I have time. One of my favorite pastimes is to cook a meal for my woman when she gets off work. Afterwords I give her a glass of wine or a cup of coffee and put her in my lazy boy recliner and rub her feet. I know her feet take a beating after walking her site checking her move outs and ready units all day. When she is about to fall asleep I will cover her with a light blanket and tell her " Rest....I'll watch over you !!" and go do the dinner dishes. I find it very satisfying to offer her such sanctuary from the daily grind when I am able.
All I have to do is ask.."How about dinner and a foot rub??" I've put her on drugs...lol lol She's hooked!! Sneaky little bugger I am!!
I love the company of a mature, talented, multi faceted woman with a attention span. Like to spoil them occasionally. I do however believe in the KISS principle. Keep It Simple Stupid. I think most women identify this kind of talent in a man more than extravagence and trying out alot for their approval. Just do it with confidence. Most women can spot confidence in a man like radar in the dark...miles and miles away.

Thanks folks for some great posts.
Orangetom

Originally posted by mr conspiracy

In fact, women themselves dont know what they really want.

It is men, real men, who can truly tell ladies whats best for them. Women can only guess. They are good at dreaming. They love to live in fantasy. Fuzzy, unfocued type of fantasy.

*coughcough* Dang! Made me choke on my pretzals.

Got to tell you, if some male tried to be macho and tell me what is "Best" for me, They would be WEARING dinner. Treat me as an equal or pay. And I don't mean cash.

My husband is a wonderful guy. He makes most major decisions in the house, but I do have a say. I just hate making financial choices. Stresses me out too much. Bills...ICK! Does that mean I just like going spending money? Nope. Hate shopping. Crowds, rude salespeople, the whole scene. Overpriced goods that won't last the week...blech. Give me a good computer game, and Harry Potter on the dvd and I am happy for hours.

Every so often, go out for dinner. Once every couple weeks. Just for a change of pace. Fav. place is a little Chinese Buffet. 8 bux per person.

I don't wear make-up (had to go out and buy all may makeup the day of my wedding. Didn't have a thing. Not even lipstick. Just lip gloss.). I don't spend hours on my hair. Well, unless you count the hour every few months for coloring. I work hard, don't care about money. Broke up with a millionare because he was just way too possesive, jealous and frustrating. Plus, he wouldn't stand up to mommy dearest.

Which btw, if Mommy is a ....unpleasant person to your female, STAND UP TO THEM. In that case, yes, we want a lion, not a mouse. Mom will still love you if you stand up to her, the woman may not if you DON'T.

A woman wants to feel special, but not brainless. I have a brain and I know how to use it. If you don't believe me, cross me. Just once. If I have a bad day, don't ask me to get you a beer, offer to get me one. And don't say "Aww, what happened? Did you break a nail?" Cause then you will wear the beer. And guess what, the more you do for her, the more she will be willing to do for you, and the fewer headaches she will have.

And the sexiest thing in the world to me is the sight of a man holding a baby / young child. Not that the muscle bound, hunka is a bad thing....

I love a great brain in a guy. My husband and I spend hours arguing points, I'll be arguing point A, he arguing point B three hours later, I am arguing point B, he is arguing point A. Just to be able to discuss stuff. Not to be threatened by my intelligence.

Originally posted by Ariande Tau
*coughcough* Dang! Made me choke on my pretzals.

Me too

It seems mr conspiracy is making some assumptions there that just aren't based in reality.

Least not on my planet

Got to tell you, if some male tried to be macho and tell me what is "Best" for me, They would be WEARING dinner. Treat me as an equal or pay. And I don't mean cash.

Ok, now YOU made ME choke on my pretzels Yes, yes, yes. Equality is what we want....not bullying by one or the other. I'm fairly certain us women actually are more than capable of not only knowing what we want, but of going out there and getting it, too. All by our ickle selves

Like you, I hate having to deal with the financial things, I actually hate shopping (with a passion) - if I had my way, I'd order everything online and never have to deal with crowds, people, horridly underparented children and horridly overzealous salespersonages. And don't even get me started on Christmas shopping.

A woman wants to feel special, but not brainless. I have a brain and I know how to use it.

Exactly.



We want partners. Not mice, not lions, but equal partners.

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Duzey,
We have a problem you and I. I find myself agreeing with you entirely to much.

Why is that a problem? It shows you are an intelligent man and that I am an honest female. Those are good things. Like I said before, the two of us could write a really good advice column. Dear Orangetom and Duzey......

She tells me that she often has to tell her female employees to dress conservatively and professionally not like they are going out on Friday or Saturday clubbing! So many of them dont seem to have the mental capacity to know the difference.

I have that problem too. I get really tired of asking them politely to 'bend at the knees', so they don't give people a free peep show. I really don't understand this. When I'm at work I want to be respected for my ability to do my job, not for my measurements (although they do kick butt ).

Or as my mother so nicely put it: Men want a lady in public and a whore in private. I won't even tell you about the advice my father gave me (which was true, just a little crude).

All I have to do is ask.."How about dinner and a foot rub??" I've put her on drugs...lol lol She's hooked!! Sneaky little bugger I am!!

A good foot massage is better than drugs!!!

Most women can spot confidence in a man like radar in the dark...miles and miles away.

Oh yeah.... Confidence is sexy. My man is so confident, he makes me laugh out loud. The last time I told him he looked good, the response I got was 'Yeah, I know'. I laughed so hard, I was almost crying. That is now my standard response to any compliment he gives me.

Are you for real. Are you married...if so..Happily????? sisters??????

You posted:

I actually hate shopping (with a passion) - if I had my way, I'd order everything online and never have to deal with crowds, people, horridly underparented children and horridly overzealous salespersonages. And don't even get me started on Christmas shopping.

Wow!! To so many women I know shopping is like a drug habit. It needs to be fed often and regularly.
I am only recently learning about on line shopping. Currently books I order on line. Parts for my moped too. Its kinda nice. Convenient too.!!

I have worked Graveyard shift for years. This made me well aware of how much time day shift people spend standing in line somewhere. I have left my grocery cart in the store and walked out if the service was slow or rude. I'll do it in a heartbeat. Department stores too. I know what I want, get it and leave. I dont like the "shopping experience. This is however a peeve with the woman I am seeing for she definitely loves the "shopping experience.
I gave up on Christmas years ago for numerious reasons..one of them was the "shopping experience and standing in lines. Not anymore tinkleflower.
Agree with the underparented children ..zealous or lousy salespersons too.

And to you Duzey ...thanks for another great post!!

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Are you for real. Are you married...if so..Happily????? sisters??????

LOL yes, I'm for real. Not married (did it once, failed at it).

My ex used to introduce me to friends...and then add:

She's great...she hates diamonds, hates shopping and needs time on her own, too...

Nice to know they were on his list of my most charming attributes, I suppose...

Wow!! To so many women I know shopping is like a drug habit. It needs to be fed often and regularly.
I am only recently learning about on line shopping. Currently books I order on line. Parts for my moped too. Its kinda nice. Convenient too.!!

You know my biggest failing?

Bookstores. Leave me in a bookstore and you won't see me for hours afterwards

Any other stores though, forget it. I'm sure I'm a letdown to my team in that respect, but I just can't do the "Oh let's go hang at the Mall!" stuff. Excuse me? No, no, no. Just...NO! I wanted to spend 6 hours listening to shallow humans, bratty children and unrepenting salespeople, I'd go back in time and become 16 again

I'd rather have wisdom tooth removal, quite frankly If it can't be bought online, I usually won't bother. Food being the exception (and I live in hope...).

I gave up on Christmas years ago for numerious reasons..one of them was the "shopping experience and standing in lines. Not anymore tinkleflower.
Agree with the underparented children ..zealous or lousy salespersons too.

The shopping experience is the equivalent of the "rubbing salt in a very new, very raw, very open wound" experience, to me.

I used to live near King of Prussia Mall (the second largest, I believe, after the hellish monstrosity in Minneapolis); it took many hours of pleading, bribing and otherwise pursuading me to even pick up a cheesecake from one of the stores there.

And I love me some cheesecake

Are these common characteristics in a woman where you come from, Tinkleflower?

And, if so, may I please borrow some money for a plane ticket?

Originally posted by The Parallelogram
Are these common characteristics in a woman where you come from, Tinkleflower?

And, if so, may I please borrow some money for a plane ticket?

A) Apparently...my mother and eldest sister are both what would be termed "frugal" shoppers (like me), who both have a zillion things they'd rather be doing than shopping. My other sister though, is the biggest name-brand whore I've ever met....if it doesn't have a name brand, she's not interested. And she's 36, with four kids..she's got no excuse.

Then again, we think she's adopted

B) (where's the "blush" smiley when you need it, hmmm?) I'm stony broke. But I heard the Greyhound ride is nice

If it meant transport to some magical land where reason comes before a new pair of shoes, I would gladly relive any number of my unpleasant charter-bus experiences.

I just don't understand how any one person could possibly want so much stuff!

You've got me bouncing up and down in this chair laughing.

"but I just can't do the "Oh let's go hang at the Mall!"

I agree totally. I used to work in a mall. Cured me of the disease!!!!!
If I must suffer the indignity of a mall to get what I want I go straight in to get the goods and get out.

I too have a weakness for a book store. Yup. Get me in a book store and the "Force" becomes weak. The "Force" is not with me Luke!!!!
With a good book I will rush home after getting some sweets...chocolate eclairs et al...and put on a pot of coffee. Coffee Amaretto is my favorite. Unplugging the phone for uninterrupted concentration and get down to it.
Some relaxing classical music tops things off perfectly.

Dont get me wrong Tinkleflower..I like a good movie on occasion but it has been so long since anyone made a really good movie without alot of violence, bad language and overdone sex. Last one I recall which stood out on the basis of the plot and characters was one titled. "October Sky." Though now that I think about it .." The HorseWhisperer " was good too. The scenery the panorama of the country were spectacular.
But give me a good book and Im content for hours and hours.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Orangetom, I think I love you

I do like movies though. I like movies where the characters are - gasp! - capable of showing emotion. I like movies where the top selling points aren't "boobs and bombs".

I like subtitled movies, too. Most of the time. Tampopo remains one of my alltime favourite little movies.

(Though I also adore a certain Chinese horror movie that still gives me the willies every time I even see the DVD cover).

But, I do admit to being an utter bookaholic. I get lost in a book easier than Paris Hilton gets lost in a thesaurus.

My name is Tess, and I'm an addict

Admit flaw=100

Paris Hilton and a thesarus..now that "is" funny.!!

I have never been able to fathom the intrest or fascination with this woman or others of this genre. It just comes across as the lowest common denominator passing itself off as excellence.

Yes I like subtitled movies too. You just have to be aware that in different cultures the sense of humor or value is not always culturally what we do or think here stateside.

Lots to do here today..but plan to make a trip to Barnes and Noble to see what is available. Off this weekend for a change..lots to do but want to fit in time for relaxing.

Thanks Tess,
Phil/Orangetom