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reply posted on 5-9-2005 @ 05:32 PM by BitRaiser
We've been talking about this up here for awhile. This event could possibly being the key trigger to the fall of the American Empire.

I expect to see a total colapse within my life time.

Key factors:
An artifical world ecconomy based on the World Bank which was never intended to be used the way it has been. Systems of Debt are unsustainable by definition.

Energy Crisies/oil addiction. The US is the biggest consumer of oil, but cannot sustain itself through internal production. The hurrican has made a bad situation worse but taking out an esimated 7 to 20 precent of national production. When you're already hurting, that's a BIG blow. Add to that the fact that the entire western seaboard is lit by Canadian power production (who are pissed off at poor trade relations and bullying), and you've really got your balls in a vise.

No real enemy and an age of comunications. There's no one out there to fight! Alquada is a myth. There is no mass organization of terroists. There are only pissed off people taking independent actions.
You can't fight that with armies.
Worse, you can't hide the truth in this day and age. Information is too easy to obtain, even by your common citizen.

Over extention of political grasp. It felled the Romans, it destoyed the French, and it forced the British back home. You simply cannot control the world and expect your empire to survive. What happens is very natural. When you over exten, you spend way too much moving assets around and maintaining those assets. At the same time, you are giving your weapons, technology, and support to people who don't want you around. Thus, they are inevitably turned against you and all your greatest strengths become your weaknesses. Saudi-Arabia is to the US as the Gauls were to the Romans.



reply posted on 7-9-2005 @ 01:58 AM by Netchicken
The Times had a great article. It made the point that the true American and western society is hidden underneath the manufactured and publicised one.

The suggestion has been that the breakdown of society witnessed in New Orleans could not happen elsewhere.

Wrong.

The city has extreme problems of violence and deprivation, but the economic apartheid inflicted on America is a wrong turn away in most cities. Go west of Constitution between central Washington and the RFK Stadium, walk the length of Broadway, get lost in Detroit.

The all-consuming civilisation that America wishes to export globally is no more than a pretty theory. Like Marxism, in practice it mutates horribly.


Western society survives because there is enough money to cushion peoples lives and help us live together. Take that away and the society collapes into anarchy and terror.

Many of the boasts made on behalf of Western civilisation are just a handy by-product of Western money.

We get along because we can afford to; in New Orleans, wealth was removed from the equation, and what values were left?

This was not just a failure for central government but for social scientists, educators, mentors, role models, the supposed civilising influence we wish to impose around the world.


So as long as we have money we are OK, but we are merely one step away from a mad max apocolyptic senario for western civilization. Money provides the veneer that hides the dirty truth inside....

[edit on 7-9-2005 by Netchicken]


reply posted on 12-9-2005 @ 09:58 PM by Aeon10101110
True incompetence, punctuated with absurd assertions from the failing leadership. Thanks to Daniel Kurtzman of About.com for compiling "compassionate conservatives'" quotes. Sources for each quotation is listed with the article linked here.

1) "What I'm hearing which is sort of scary is that they all want to stay in Texas. Everybody is so overwhelmed by the hospitality. And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway so this (chuckle) – this is working very well for them." –Former First Lady Barbara Bush, on the Hurricane flood evacuees in the Houston Astrodome, Sept. 5, 2005 (Source)

2) "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." –President Bush, on "Good Morning America," Sept. 1, 2005, six days after repeated warnings from experts about the scope of damage expected from Hurricane Katrina (Source)

3) "It makes no sense to spend billions of dollars to rebuild a city that's seven feet under sea level....It looks like a lot of that place could be bulldozed." –House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.), Aug. 31, 2005 (Source)

4) "We've got a lot of rebuilding to do ... The good news is — and it's hard for some to see it now — that out of this chaos is going to come a fantastic Gulf Coast, like it was before. Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott's house — he's lost his entire house — there's going to be a fantastic house. And I'm looking forward to sitting on the porch." (Laughter) —President Bush, touring hurricane damage, Mobile, Ala., Sept. 2, 2005 (Source)

5) "Considering the dire circumstances that we have in New Orleans, virtually a city that has been destroyed, things are going relatively well." –FEMA Director Michael Brown, Sept. 1, 2005 (Source)

6) "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." –President Bush, to FEMA director Michael Brown, while touring Hurricane-ravaged Mississippi, Sept. 2, 2005 (Source)

7) "I have not heard a report of thousands of people in the convention center who don't have food and water." –Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, on NPR's "All Things Considered," Sept. 1, 2005 (Source)

8) "Well, I think if you look at what actually happened, I remember on Tuesday morning picking up newspapers and I saw headlines, 'New Orleans Dodged the Bullet.' Because if you recall, the storm moved to the east and then continued on and appeared to pass with considerable damage but nothing worse." –Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, blaming media coverage for his failings, "Meet the Press," Sept. 4, 2005 (Source)

9) "I mean, you have people who don't heed those warnings and then put people at risk as a result of not heeding those warnings. There may be a need to look at tougher penalties on those who decide to ride it out and understand that there are consequences to not leaving.” –Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA), Sept. 6, 2005 (Source)

10) "You simply get chills every time you see these poor individuals...many of these people, almost all of them that we see are so poor and they are so black, and this is going to raise lots of questions for people who are watching this story unfold." –CNN's Wolf Blitzer, on New Orleans' hurricane evacuees, Sept. 1, 2005 (Source)

11) "What didn't go right?'" –President Bush, as quoted by House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), after she urged him to fire FEMA Director Michael Brown "because of all that went wrong, of all that didn't go right" in the Hurricane Katrina relief effort (Source)

12) "Now tell me the truth boys, is this kind of fun?" –House Majority Leader Tom Delay (R-TX), to three young hurricane evacuees from New Orleans at the Astrodome in Houston (Source)

13) "We finally cleaned up public housing in New Orleans. We couldn't do it, but God did." –Rep. Richard Baker (R-LA) to lobbyists, as quoted in the Wall Street Journal (Source)

14) "Louisiana is a city that is largely under water." –Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, news conference, Sept. 3, 2005 (Source)

15) "I also want to encourage anybody who was affected by Hurricane Corina to make sure their children are in school." –First Lady Laura Bush, twice referring to a "Hurricane Corina" while speaking to children and parents in South Haven, Mississippi, Sept. 8, 2005 (Source)

16) "It's totally wiped out. ... It's devastating, it's got to be doubly devastating on the ground." –President Bush, turning to his aides while surveying Hurricane Katrina flood damage from Air Force One, Aug. 31, 2005 (Source)

17) "I believe the town where I used to come – from Houston, Texas, to enjoy myself, occasionally too much – will be that very same town, that it will be a better place to come to." –President Bush, on the tarmac at the New Orleans airport, Sept. 2, 2005 (Source)

18) "Last night, we showed you the full force of a superpower government going to the rescue." –MSNBC's Chris Matthews, Sept. 1, 2005 (Source)

19) "You know I talked to Haley Barbour, the governor of Mississippi yesterday because some people were saying, 'Well, if you hadn't sent your National Guard to Iraq, we here in Mississippi would be better off.' He told me 'I've been out in the field every single day, hour, for four days and no one, not one single mention of the word Iraq.' Now where does that come from? Where does that story come from if the governor is not picking up one word about it? I don't know. I can use my imagination." –Former President George Bush, who can give his imagination a rest, interview with CNN’s Larry King, Sept. 5, 2005 (Source)

20) "We just learned of the convention center – we being the federal government – today." –FEMA Director Michael Brown, to ABC's Ted Koppel, Sept. 1, 2005, to which Koppel responded " Don't you guys watch television? Don't you guys listen to the radio? Our reporters have been reporting on it for more than just today." (Source)

21) "I don't want to alarm everybody that, you know, New Orleans is filling up like a bowl. That's just not happening." -Bill Lokey, FEMA's New Orleans coordinator, in a press briefing from Baton Rouge, Aug. 30, 2005 (Source)

22) "FEMA is not going to hesitate at all in this storm. We are not going to sit back and make this a bureaucratic process. We are going to move fast, we are going to move quick, and we are going to do whatever it takes to help disaster victims." --FEMA Director Michael Brown, Aug. 28, 2005 (Source)

23) "I don't make judgments about why people chose not to leave but, you know, there was a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans." –FEMA Director Michael Brown, arguing that the victims bear some responsibility, CNN interview, Sept. 1, 2005 (Source)

24) "I understand there are 10,000 people dead. It's terrible. It's tragic. But in a democracy of 300 million people, over years and years and years, these things happen." --GOP strategist Jack Burkman, on MSNBC's "Connected," Sept. 7, 2005 (Source)
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