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What is Gnostic? Anyone Know?

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posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 05:00 PM
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I've heard a lot about gnostic, and to me, I think its like Christianity or Catholicism but includes more of the "lost scriptures" or "lost letters" that has vital information about jesus teaching that the Chruch did not included when they created the bible, along with some other interested teaching...

But, I know I'm probably wrong, so someone has to really clarify this for me..




posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 05:59 PM
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Gnosticism are doctrines of certain pre-Christian pagan, Jewish, and early Christian sects that valued the revealed knowledge of God and of the origin and end of the human race as a means to attain redemption for the spiritual element in human beings and that distinguished the Demiurge (grand original intelligence, the craftsman, maker, etc.) from the unknowable Divine Being. It is more of a way to KNOW the creator, then to turn to him for salvation.

It is completly differant and seperate in its docturine when compared to Christianity



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 09:12 PM
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Hmm...thanks alot man, but ill see if anyone know more about it, a little bit more information wouldn't hurt.



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 09:15 PM
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Gnosticism is a blanket term for various mostly mystical religions and sects, which were most prominent in the first few centuries CE.

The word gnosticism comes from the Greek word for knowledge, gnosis (γνώσις), referring to the idea that there is special esoteric knowledge, a key to transcendent understanding, that only a few may possess. The occult nature of Gnostic teaching and the fact that much of the evidence for that teaching has traditionally come from critiques by orthodox Christians made it difficult to be precise about early Christian Gnostic systems.

The word "Gnosticism" is also applied to many modern sects where only initiates have access to arcana. However, there has always been a great deal of diversity within gnosticism and modern gnostic doctrines sometimes have little to do with ancient Gnosticism.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Sep, 5 2005 @ 11:07 AM
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That's true--'gnosticism' as a sort of religion or belief system was basically 'extinct' for most of the 2000 years since Christ. The emerging variations on what it might have originally been (or not been) in the last 60 or 70 years since the discovery of the Nag Hammadi are not necessarily of the same breed, just going by the same name. The experience I have had with those who study gnosticism is that they disparage faith in Christ, think that God in the OT was evil, and think there is a way to know God without going through Christ. And since they believe the one way to God is a foolish thing to pursue, they remain in the dark and confused.

I think that the true followers of Christ, around the time Nero declared them enemies of the state--I think it is their 'ghost' that gives us the idea of gnosticism. I also think that after Constantine made 'christianity' approved for the masses, that much of the true and pure essential teachings were perverted by such as Valentinus in much the same way Christianity was.

I don't think they called themselves 'gnostics' though--I think the word 'gnosis' was just a word used to describe their 'knowledge' which I have a good idea was originally said of the knowledge which comes from the Holy Spirit--for it is indeed a mysterious thing, but undeniably trustworthy knowledge.

And that is what makes a mystic 'mystical'--having knowledge that is obviously gained by some other means besides conventional learning, and an understanding of the 'mysteries' of God. Paul was the first mystic--and as such, most don't understand him in a beneficial way (even though they think they do--the various doctrines and even vastly differing opinions of Paul himself make that obvious).



posted on Sep, 5 2005 @ 11:03 PM
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There are lots of books and reliable web sites that deal with this issue.

That last post is a very good example of what evangelical christians would have you believe but, it's no better than a "glancing blow" at the true meaning.

It is always informative to read what strident opponents have to say about something but it is never a good idea to rely upon that kind of information.

It's hard work but you really have to do it. There are no shortcuts.



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 01:20 AM
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... from the reading I have done, the "gnosis" or the secret of it is that
God and the devil are really the same being. I don't believe this, but this is
my understanding of the gnosis.

I guess for some people this woud mean that "it dosen't matter what you do man, yer just upholding the cosmic balance."

The "gnosis" is most likely at the heart of many secret societies.



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by Al Davison
There are lots of books and reliable web sites that deal with this issue.

That last post is a very good example of what evangelical christians would have you believe but, it's no better than a "glancing blow" at the true meaning.
It is always informative to read what strident opponents have to say about something but it is never a good idea to rely upon that kind of information.

It's hard work but you really have to do it. There are no shortcuts.


#1 I am not an 'evangelical christian' I'm not a 'christian' at all--just because I believe in Messiah doesn't mean you can make generalizations.

#2 Neither am I a 'strident opponent' of gnosticism--although I do see many problems with the so-called modern gnostics, of which I am not making generalizations or shallow assessments. I am merely pointing out what my experiences have been, and they've been extensive enough to know what I'm saying.

There is only one true way to understand geniune 'gnosis' and it doesn't come by way of websites and books.

I gave an answer more detailed than 'It's hard work but you really have to do it. There are no shortcuts,' so if you have anything more to add, there's no reason you can't give your input--aside from criticizing my reply which was not deserving of comments that stem not from what I said, but from what you do or don't believe.

If you can refute what I say about gnosis, then have at it--if you can shed more light on it, please do.



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by cosmokatt7
... from the reading I have done, the "gnosis" or the secret of it is that
God and the devil are really the same being. I don't believe this, but this is
my understanding of the gnosis.


Gnosis is an understanding of ultimate truth that is not something one can find out on their own (without spiritual revelation, that is)



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 04:41 PM
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Gnosis is an understanding of ultimate truth that is not something one can find out on their own (without spiritual revelation, that is)


Well, at least you put in the "without spiritual revelation, that is". GOD lets a few in on his "secrets". Actually no "secret". Just a little common sense which goes a long way. Each individual is shown in a way that he/she can understand. However, when one speaks of what GOD has shown he often becomes villified, crucified, and called a heretic.

No, I'm not speaking of the Christians. Mostly speaking to the ones that consider themselves Christians, but are unwilling to listen to the real truth. They would rather have someone instruct them on what the "truth" is instead of listening to GOD.

"I am the light" said Christ.



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
"I am the light" said Christ.



Not to mention the truth and the way to the truth.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by cosmokatt7
... from the reading I have done, the "gnosis" or the secret of it is that
God and the devil are really the same being. I don't believe this, but this is
my understanding of the gnosis.


Gnosis is an understanding of ultimate truth that is not something one can find out on their own (without spiritual revelation, that is)


...In the end, everyone belives what they want to believe...

I don't believe the "gnosis" is some positive high and mighty concept.
I believe the source is truly negative.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 08:27 AM
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Not to mention the truth and the way to the truth.


The "truth". Does one actually know what it is? One must completely discount what one has been taught or led to believe. and open up the mind. Remember, the Bible was put together by first century man whose knowledge of physics and such was virtually nil. GOD is the greatest physicist there is.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 10:00 AM
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Gnosis is Knowledge by definition

If you have nagging doubts about the veracity of your theology or wonder if you will go to "heaven" when you die you are a believer not a knower.

Bear in mind Gnosis does not limit itself to a Christian interpretation, although the Christian imagery was invented for this purpose, but since Valentinus was mentioned lets go over his system of dividing the masses. Btw Valentinus almost made bishop of Rome and came almost 200 years before Constantine.

To Valentinus People were either Hylectical, Psychical, or Pneumatical.

Hylics were the true idolaters they believed the idol was the god so to speak

Psychics or sarkiks could come to Christ through the law and the nymphion or Ritual of the Bridal Chamber

Pneumatics were embodiments of the law (read above the law) made at one with Christ. In catholic terms all pneumatics were "popes" in the sense of "vicar of Christ on earth".
Remember St Paul “nothing is forbidden us although not all things are prudent” and “among the wise we speak wisdom but among you I speak plainly”

Valentinus was a reincarnationist so the progression through all three states of consciousness did not have to be completed within one lifetime even though theoretically it is possible. It seems in our age hylics are in short supply I don’t know if they even exist anymore. Even Satanists turn their deity to abstraction these days.

When a person is brought to Knowledge they cease to believe and begin to Know. Think in automotive terms:

Hylic - (Cave man) - magic in shiny flat rock make big turtle roar and belch smoke

Psychic (average driver) belief - turn the key engine starts

Pneumatic (mechanic) knowledge - turn key power goes to solenoid and turns starter causing the engine to turn....


Pneumatics are also scarce. Make no mistake about it almost all established religious institutions are very anti-gnosis. The last thing the establishment wants is a bunch of Christ’s walking around like giant BS detectors advocating for the masses.

Now I know you’re all saying "You keep on talking about this gnosis or knowledge but what is it?" Here it is.

Christ lives inside you. You are divine and more importantly so is everyone else.

But you must not ever believe this you must learn to know it and that can be a very long path.



[edit on 7-9-2005 by radiant]

[edit on 7-9-2005 by radiant]

[edit on 7-9-2005 by radiant]

[edit on 7-9-2005 by radiant]

[edit on 7-9-2005 by radiant]



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by radiant
Gnosis is Knowledge by definition


Bear in mind Gnosis does not limit itself to a Christian interpretation, although the Christian imagery was invented for this purpose, but since Valentinus was mentioned lets go over his system of dividing the masses. Btw Valentinus almost made bishop of Rome and came a full 200 years before Constantine.

[edit on 7-9-2005 by radiant]


If you are talking about Valentius (Valentine), he lived during the reign of Cladius Gothikus, who was emperor 268-270, who was only 36 years before Constantine I.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 10:30 AM
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Gnosticism believes that we live in a shadow world, a world made in ignorance.
It states that we live here because ....

(I'll use a post of mine that was really slept on to explain .. )


What I've written out below here is long and most likely won't get read but I hope those that do read it, reply and let me know their feelings towards it.

This is how the LONGER Genesis Starts ... Please post questions if it's confusing at all, I would really like a good discussion.

"REAL GOD" is "NAMELESS" because None of Us have known him yet (until Jesus)... that's because...

NAMELESS (also seen here as CONSORT) created his wife out of his mind, in his image

"And his thought performed a deed and she came forth, namely she who had appeared before him in the shine of his light. This is the first power which was before all of them (and) which came forth from his mind"

She asked for all sorts of powers... she is known as Sophia of the Epinoia...
but one day she decided that she wanted to bring a likeness of herself (an image of herself) into existence without the consent of the Mother-Father (NAMELESS)

"And the Sophia of the Epinoia, being an aeon, conceived a thought from herself and the conception of the invisible Spirit and foreknowledge. She wanted to bring forth a likeness out of herself without the consent of the Spirit, - he had not approved - and without her consort, and without his consideration."

and that BEING was Satan... also known as... Yaltabaoth

She cast it away from her, outside that place, that no one of the immortal ones might see it, for she had created it in ignorance. And she surrounded it with a luminous cloud, and she placed a throne in the middle of the cloud that no one might see it except the Holy Spirit who is called the mother of the living. And she called his name Yaltabaoth

He is the FIRST Archon to steal a great power from his mother.

"And he removed himself from her and moved away from the places in which he was born"

He left their area... assumed power for himself and created the Authorities... (12 of them)
"but he did not send forth from the power of the light which he had taken from his mother, for he is ignorant darkness"

"He became strong and created for himself other aeons with a flame of luminous fire which (still) exists now"(The sun)
"And he joined with his arrogance which is in him and begot authorities for himself"

he created 12 of them according to text. And each of them created 7 Powers for themselves...

"and the powers created for themselves six angels for each one until they became 365 angels"

""And having created [...] everything, he(Yaltabaoth) organized according to the model of the first aeons which had come into being, so that he might create them like the indestructible ones."

"Not because he had seen the indestructible ones, but the power in him, which he had taken from his mother, produced in him the likeness of the cosmos. And when he saw the creation which surrounds him, and the multitude of the angels around him which had come forth from him, he said to them, 'I am a jealous God, and there is no other God beside me.' But by announcing this he indicated to the angels who attended him that there exists another God. For if there were no other one, of whom would he be jealous? "

"Then the mother began to move to and fro. She became aware of the deficiency when the brightness of her light diminished. And she became dark because her consort had not agreed with her."

Now Yaltabaoths' mother became aware that he stole her power and she was angry with herself and repented and became shameful

"And she was overcome by forgetfulness in the darkness of ignorance and she began to be ashamed. And she did not dare to return,"(to The Nameless)

"And the arrogant one (YaltaBaoth) took a power from his mother. For he was ignorant, thinking that there existed no other except his mother alone. And when he saw the multitude of the angels which he had created, then he exalted himself above them"

(That’s when the God in Regular Genesis say I am the Only God, and I am a Jealous God)

"And when the mother recognized that the garment of darkness was imperfect, then she knew that her consort (The NAMELESS) had not agreed with her. She repented with much weeping. And the whole pleroma heard the prayer of her repentance, and they praised on her behalf the invisible, virginal Spirit. And he consented; and when the invisible Spirit had consented, the Holy Spirit poured over her from their whole pleroma. For it was not her consort who came to her, but he came to her through the pleroma in order that he might correct her deficiency. And she was taken up not to her own aeon but above her son, that she might be in the ninth until she has corrected her deficiency.

"And a voice came forth from the exalted aeon-heaven: 'The Man exists and the son of Man.' and the chief archon, Yaltabaoth, heard (it) and thought that the voice had come from his mother. And he did not know from where it came. And he taught them, the holy and perfect Mother-Father, the complete foreknowledge, the image of the invisible one who is the Father of the all (and) through whom everything came into being, the first Man. For he revealed his likeness in a human form.

What happened there is, The Nameless heard her prayers and had pity on her and appeared to her in a human form, and spoke to her and her creations and explained "REALITY" and Yaltabaoth heard it thought it was his mom...
So then Yaltabaoth said to his authorities...

'Come, let us create a man according to the image of God and according to our likeness, that his image may become a light for us.' And they created by means of their respective powers in correspondence with the characteristics which were given. And each authority supplied a characteristic in the form of the image which he had seen in its natural (form). He created a being according to the likeness of the first, perfect Man. And they said, 'Let us call him Adam, that his name may become a power of light for us.'

At the beginning it was The Nameless who made his companion... They both decided to create "a child" which is the first begotten son... (Jesus) and then later NAMELESS' Companion decided to make "a child" for herself... only, without the Nameless' permission... so "Satan" or Yaltabaoth is in a way Jesus' brother


[Summary/Ending]

I said that God created his counter image ... female God...

They BOTH together created the first begotten son .. Jesus...

THEN by HERSELF...... female God created another son without the permission of GOD... the Mother-Father...

She was ashamed of this OTHER son because he was made in ignorance... and she cast him aside...

But the Other son (the one created in ignorance) thought that it was just HIMSELF and His mother...

What I was saying is that SATAN is the SON that was created in Ignorance..

The MOTHER-FATHER (GOD)... Heard his counter-image repenting and he sent the holy spirit to her in the form of the first HUMAN ... and The Ignorant son thought it was a message from his mother, but it wasn't, it was a message from GOD... and the ignorant son seen the image of the human and said Let us make man, according to the image of the first being...
They called him Adam... but he was just a body.. No life...
during this time... GOD put his counter-image in her own AEON so she could correct her problem... and she was to stay there until she did so...
now she understood the problem and realized she had to figure out a way to get the power back that she gave the ignorant son... so she got the authorities that the ignorant one created to trick him into breathing his power into the body which was lifeless..
upon breathing the life into him, the ignorant son seen how great his creation was, and all the authorities and the ignorant son were jealous because what they created surpassed them, so they put Adam to sleep because they wanted to steal the power that was in him, and they created a counter-image from him using the power within him, and there was our first female.. (eve) ... now after Adam awoke and seen eve beside him he immediately recognized the mother in eve... and now the authorities were really mad... so they cast the 2 of them to earth, in the authorities paradise and showed them the tree of their power... it was actually Jesus who gave the fruit from the tree to Adam and eve in the form of an eagle..
After this... we recognized our defiency (sp?) and we felt shame... and once again we found favor with GOD... because we understood our wrong doing... at this point the ignorant son was just furious claimed he was the only God... and made his authorities aware there was actually someone else.. So the authorities conspired with the ignorant son and they created a false image of the 2 beings they created and sent them to earth to fornicate with the women of earth, so that way they could perhaps share or steal our salvation.....

"Cursed be everyone who will exchange these things for a gift or for food or for drink or for clothing or for any other such thing."

You can find the original text here...
www.gnosis.org...



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 10:44 AM
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Valentinus was born around 100 ad and died approx. 161 ad
Constantine created modern christianity at the council of nicea in 325 for a difference of 164 years or as i previously stated almost 200 years not 36

[edit on 7-9-2005 by radiant]



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 11:05 AM
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I stand corrected. I though you were referring to Valentinius.

ooopppppssssss!!



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 06:31 PM
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dnero6911...lol sorry, but can you by any chance summarize the extended genesis.

Urm, man I thought Gnosis was just a pre-christian religion w/ a mix of buddism...but i guess its more complicated and confusing than that. Like I said before, I thought since gnosis was written scripture about jesus that was never publish when the pope and the church created the bible.



posted on Sep, 7 2005 @ 08:28 PM
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Here is a short article telling about how the Nag Hammadi scrolls were discovered--it is quite an interesting tale, actually. If you are interested in more, check out that whole site. There is a lot of information there, and some more links to research further.

What is interesting to note is that these Scrolls were found 2 years before the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered at Qumran.

Here is another site which addresses the controversy of present times regarding the question of whether the RCC concealed and/or mispresented certain facts and if so--what facts were concealed? Mostly this page talks about the DaVinci Code type things.

Another page. This one is about the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The site that the last link is from, The Gnostic Society, has the most inclusive library of apocryphal scriptural writings in the world, and the site is probably the most reputable and trustworthy one I know of concerning gnosis, past and present. You have to be careful looking up gnosis in general--there's lots of weird stuff out there using that name that is anything but scholarly or serious-minded in the way of true gnosis IOW cultish stuff.

Probably the most widely accepted apocryphal writing (accepted by strict canon-strict church going bible folks, that is) was found in the Nag Hammadi collection, and that is the Gospel of Thomas. There are one or maybe two others which have that name, but the one from the Nag Hammadi is the one I am referring to. You can read it here if you're so inclined.



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