Why does this have to turn into a race issue?

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
It is appalling to me that the rescue was made not just under heavy police guard, but by highly trained, most likely by now, battle hardened fighting men from their positions in helicopters during the night, and presented as though they are somehow afraid of dealing with gunfire. The truth is more likely that it was done under cover of darkness so that the less fortunate black folk could not see the extent of the rescue efforts extended to these ‘poor’ Ritz Carlton patrons who for three days had to suffer being holed up in a swanky hotel.

Did you also notice if any of those 300 people were non-whites? You seem to be confusing the more well-to-do with the poor (or in NO's case the "po"). I am pretty sure that those 300 people will also be part of the larger group of people who will pay to rebuild NO and surrounding areas. It's not a race issue, but perhaps it's a money issue "yay, we got some non-local tax payers out so they can go home and get ready to pay for the rebuilding" -- then again perhaps it's a "somebody called us, we know their exact location and we know we can get 300 people out in one trip; lets get busy" situation. (And the fact that there were a couple doctors there is as much luck of the draw as it is an example of what segment of society stays in nicer hotels.)

As for the rest of your post, do you really think the Florida hurricane is comparable to the ten feet of water covering an area comparable to the entire state of Florida? I think it was considerably easier for FEMA to drive into wind damaged areas of Florida than it is/was for them to drive (float) into the middle of a lake. Comparing the two is not realistic, this is a massive disaster, with billions of gallons of water covering roads and buildings, the Florida hurricane was a smallish disaster with lots of wind damaged buildings and minimal flooding.

Originally posted by I See You
Why does this have to turn into a race issue? I have seen and heard that the reason why it took so long to get action was that the stranded persons were primarily black. This is absurd. I don't believe for a minute that this is the case. We are all Americans not skin colors. This should not be turned into a race issue. It just happens that 80% of people living in N.O. are black skinned. Thats all.

If I could turn the question around, why doesn't this have to turn into a race issue?

I don't believe for a minute that this is the case.

You didn't even take 60 seconds to wonder? I'm sure you are not a racist, and your concern is genuine, but some people just cannot imagine how non-whites are treated in this country. Both historically, and even today.

For some people there is a disconnect between their experiences, how they are treated, and an empathy and understanding for other realities.

Originally posted by curme

If I could turn the question around, why doesn't this have to turn into a race issue?

I don't believe for a minute that this is the case.


Up until Sharpton, Jesses et el showed up I doubt many people even thought of it as a racial issue. It was only once they showed up and started spouting off that it was implied it was one, because they wanted to make it one.


Not once have I given any thought to this being an issue of race it is nothing more then man kind rescuing others no matter what their skin color or race is. Unfortunately a certain group of people have other motives in mind, why is beyond me:shk::shk:

Dont forget kanye west who is rich thanks to the white people's money(whom he despises)

Originally posted by DiRtYDeViL
God when are people going to start looking at the obvious instead of reversing what they see with their own eyes and denying the truth! It’s why America is so #ed up. Everyone keeps following blind optimism and irrational thinking. What did you see on tv that was different in other hurricane situations. They didn’t helicopter in the usual food and water and made excuses for not doing so. They don’t give a # about the poor hell you see it every dam day. Someone asks you for a dollar you tell them to get a #ing job or no or some other cute phrase. People don’t give a # about the poor they spend their time ridiculing and belittling them. America has a president right now who represents them perfectly. It makes me sick seeing those people suffer because I know the reason as you do.

Keep telling yourself if they had 2 tickets to the super bowl they would find a way to get there, but you tell me they couldn’t find a way out of the city? It makes it easier for morons to except just how brutal we are to the poor.

DiRtYDeViL,

Can't agree with you more. You said something that should have been said long ago, or at least by more people, and heard by more. I hope that you continue to stick to your belief, and that more people will start to open their eyes.


Shots, I don't like to interfere with peoples signatures, as they are an expression of themselves. However when you give blanket advice, such as "If you Suspect it, Report it.", I was just wondering if you are aware that it is that sort of thinking that has much of the court dockets and the prison systems clogged up with people who were only in the wrong place at the wrong time, thereby often being "Reported" for things they didn't do? This is a great contributor for so many real and dangerous criminals to be out running around, because there is no room left for them.

Originally posted by SomewhereInBetween

Friday August 13, 2004 hurricane Charley destroys Punta Gorda, Florida.

Scott McLellan on August 13th issued this statement: quote: Secretary Ridge, during the briefings, also updated the President on Hurricane Charley, and talked about how we have deployed federal resources and put them in place to be in position to respond to Hurricane Charley when it hits Florida. We've got disaster supply kits in place. We've got response teams in place. So the President received an update about all that we're doing at the federal level to respond to Hurricane Charley.

By Saturday the 14th, FEMA was already in there going from house to house with food, medical supplies and looking for survivors via helicopter view.

Two days after the hurricane hit, Sunday the 15th, Bush was on the ground surveying the damage.
www.cnn.com...



This is a race issue indirectly. It is obvious that when the largest majority of a state happens to be black and is ranked as one of the poorest, it is as a result of a differentiation in class; discrimination and what is not available to that majority class as opposed to the other. Otherwise it would have to be said that the black population in the United States are willingly choosing to live in poverty.

Are you sure about all that being the only factor(s)?

Or could it be possible that the fact that GWB's brother happens to be the Governor of Florida?

Would things have gone differently if good ole Jeb were to have been Governor of NO instead of Florida? Probably.......what do you think?




[edit on 9/4/2005 by CyberKat]

[edit on 9/4/2005 by CyberKat]

I didn't mean t write anything here. Sorry if anything shows up - disregard, please. Thanks

You people are ignorant, do you really think Bush would have been playing golf while his Oil executive buddies and the elite of America were starving in NO. He would have been there with relief and private planes faster than he can screw up a sentence.

Originally posted by I See You
Why does this have to turn into a race issue? I have seen and heard that the reason why it took so long to get action was that the stranded persons were primarily black. This is absurd. I don't believe for a minute that this is the case. We are all Americans not skin colors. This should not be turned into a race issue. It just happens that 80% of people living in N.O. are black skinned. Thats all.

You don't believe? Well you must be sleep then because it's going on still. Not so much noticeable as it was in the days of segregation, but a high-tech way. And people like you fail..or pretend to fail to see it, but it is going on right here right now in this so-called UNITED States.

I really think that this whole situation is a racial thing. But it's a high-tech racial thing. They don't want to admit they are doing this, but on the other hand are showing their racial side on the down-low. It took the refugees five days to even reach the area. Now, N.O. is 90% african-american, and I'll be damned if it was a city that was predominately caucasion, they would be there in a heart-beat. Why did it take so long for them to get there? If it was a country that the U.S. is in a war situation, the troops would be there in less than 24hours. They did the same thing in Liberia. When they needed assistance from the U.S. Military to cease the rioting and rebel power, it took the troops days to even set foot on the country to help these people. But, I don't understand how, when the troops are in the U.S., take so long to get to a city inside of the U.S., but if it were a war in another country, they'd be there any less than 24 hours. What's the legitimate reason why it took these troops that long to help these people? Or is it that you all haven't made up an excuse why, and try to say something that doesn't relate to a racial issue.

Now my concern about these people giving money to the Red Cross is if the money is really going to the familes as they say they were? Or are you going to only give it to the high-class citizens, such as the rich? Just like 9/11. There were several families including african-americans who did not get a dime as the government said they would. So why waste time trying to give money to an organization who is not going to be fair to ALL of the people who need the money to get back on their feet. So what's going to be done to those who aren't insured? They couldn't prevent that disaster from happening. And to them, they were living happily before the storm hit, now they went from first to worse. What's going to be done with the poverty level and those who had houses but lost them?

This is a wake-up call for America. WE bomb every nation that has oil, but find no weapons of mass destruction, and now look what happened over here. It's a revenge type of thing because the high power is sending a message to our nation's president. Don't bomb people for riches, and that's one reason why nature made it's way to show who is still in charge! This is a wak-up call! Stop being so damn racists, and help the U.S. citizens. We are all citizens or soon to be citizens of the U.S., and you treat many african-americans and other races as if we are a potential enemy. If we are so-called the United States, why can't the people within the states be united as well to each other? You people make me sick with this racial profiling B.S. That is so damn old school, get off of that kick!

I find it a race and class issue, in the last years the low income and poverty in our nation falls on black Americans households specially in inner cities.

It has been a trend that span many years and has a historical issue to it also.

Taking in consideration that New Orleans have a high population of black Americans and many are in the inner city and also are in the most poor neighborhoods.

It makes you wonder.

Now people knows that this is happening but nobody wants to address it, but when a disaster like the hurricane targeted the city it was obvious that ones to be in the center of the most affected are going to be the poor and taking in consideration that in NO is a majority of black is going to make it more marked that they are the ones to suffer the most.

And you wonder why it took them so long to help the people in that city. They have no legitimate answer to why it took them so long other than because they are black!! But they don't want to say it that way. On the down-low, that's what's really going on. But they are too afriad to admit it because more chaos would occur such as rioting in many other major cities that all hell would break loose.

REALITY CHECK TO EVERYONE (THE CIVIL WAR IS OVER)

racism has nothing to do with this and it should not even be brought up, its really quite sickening that people would think that we would just let people die because there poor inner city African Americans.

Originally posted by CatHerderDid you also notice if any of those 300 people were non-whites?

How can I possibly notice what colour they were when for one; I recounted a telephone interview, and two; I referred to it as an issue of class with the race issue being indirect?

You seem to be confusing the more well-to-do with the poor (or in NO's case the "po"). I am pretty sure that those 300 people will also be part of the larger group of people who will pay to rebuild NO and surrounding areas.

I highly doubt that I am confusing anything, but I have no doubt that you in essence not only are confused but presumptuous enough to jump to the conclusion that these very same 300 individuals will in fact pay to rebuild New Orleans. It is not wise to presume to know how others will react, Catherder, and so I take from your misinterpreted and defensive stances here that you would rather carve a fantasy from the reality unfolding before your very eyes. This is called denial.

However you wish to spin your fantasy does not negate the fact that the Super 8 Motel crowd do not frequent the Ritz Carlton, nor does it negate the fact that the aid was provided first and foremost to not those roaming through the feces; gas and oil infested waters looking for food, shelter and clothing, but to those who were well surrounded by glitz, glamour and the smell of gold leaf and granite.

And the fact that there were a couple doctors there is as much luck of the draw as it is an example of what segment of society stays in nicer hotels.

I remove your parentheses on this because I find despicable the aside to which you subconsciously relegate the theft of drugs by individuals with MD after their names. I want to be sure I drive my point home for you; It was theft! Looting! But not a soul within the media whom I have heard has cast aspersions on this or placed it within the same category as those shown in video replay after video replay walking out of the local grocery story with diapers; liquid and food.

As for the rest of your post, do you really think the Florida hurricane is comparable to the ten feet of water covering an area comparable to the entire state of Florida?

No I do not, and do you not see that since Katrina's impact was far worse than Charlie that the US government's reponse to the two are unequal? How can you possibly miss this? There is no excuse whatsoever for the delay in assistance by FEMA. None! I sat there on Wednesday and Thursday with several other individuals watching various reports from around the globe and asked questions that were not even posed by the media until Friday, such as; how is it possible that the US war machine can fight a war with insurgents using shoulder guided missiles in Iraq but declare the city of New Orleans unsafe because of small arms fire? How is it possible that they can rally 150,000 troops across a country the size of California but cannot place their own country's national guardsmen in state within 3 days? How is it possible that hundreds of thousands of food packets can be flown and dropped in Afghanistan and Iraq but the citizens of New Orleans can only long for such nourishment? The answer to me is becoming obvious when considering all those politicians and news reporters who stated: " Where are all the FEMA respond4rs that are supposed to be here, I see none." They were there, they were just busy rescuing the wealthier more apt to be politically supportive crowd.

How was it possible Catherder, that an organization which for 4 years has been touted to the public as being the elite and most necessary national emergency force can be so unprepared for an event which was 4 days in the making?


The US under this current administration misses no opportunity to promote how wonderfully advanced is their military might. It misses no opportunity to drive the point home that its technology and skill is second to none, and it misses no opportunity to speak about the ability to battle the enemy. I suppose mother nature decided to flex her own muscles and show just how easily she can reduce even the most powerful to the very status of their devastated enemies. The parallels are astounding, but that is another topic.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
I suppose mother nature decided to flex her own muscles and show just how easily she can reduce even the most powerful to the very status of their devastated enemies. The parallels are astounding, but that is another topic.

And that is the truth, no country can take the power of nature, but what a country can do is prepare in time to make sure that the poor and needy do not suffer the most, and in this case it was "Mostly black Americans"

That is something that can not be denied.

Originally posted by CyberKatAre you sure about all that being the only factor(s)?

Or could it be possible that the fact that GWB's brother happens to be the Governor of Florida?

I am quite certain that Jeb's position played a role, but whether it did or not, it is irrelevant, because I am well acquainted with Florida's gulf coast and its demographics.





[edit on 9/4/2005 by CyberKat]

[edit on 9/4/2005 by CyberKat]

Just watching the replies in this thread shows that some people dont even care if it really is a race issue or not. NO matter wha that is what they are goin to believe this. I really dont know why everyone wants to play the race card. It doesnt further the race that is complaining. Heck i think it actually hurts them. By constantly playing the race card and sayin that situations are racisit you give people reasons to be racist against you. Especially if you cry wolf too many times. Yes racist things happen but frankly everything isnt fair in life.

In this situation its more a poverty problem like stated before. The poor had no real ability to leave. Things should have been in place to help evacuate them. Heck who would have really thought that the superdome would not have been an adequate place for a shelter.

Response should have been faster no doubt but between incompatance and stupidity there really is not much room for racism. I cant possibly think of someone sayin "hell its just black people down there" It just wouldnt happen. The way the US is now if anyone would try to be racist they would be flagged immediatelly.

Look at the news. Look at those peoples faces. They are Americans and thats all they are to me.

Originally posted by iksmodnad
REALITY CHECK TO EVERYONE (THE CIVIL WAR IS OVER)

racism has nothing to do with this and it should not even be brought up, its really quite sickening that people would think that we would just let people die because there poor inner city African Americans.

i agree. it`s a disaster because they did not get enough aid in quickly enough. So WHY?

[edit on 4-9-2005 by FredH]

Originally posted by CyberKat
Shots, I don't like to interfere with peoples signatures, as they are an expression of themselves. However when you give blanket advice, such as "If you Suspect it, Report it.", I was just wondering if you are aware that it is that sort of thinking that has much of the court dockets and the prison systems clogged up with people who were only in the wrong place at the wrong time, thereby often being "Reported" for things they didn't do? This is a great contributor for so many real and dangerous criminals to be out running around, because there is no room left for them.

I could not care less what you think it was meant to be and trust me you will not intrfere with it. It was meant to make people aware of the terrorist element out there and I am not about to change it.

Whether or not the fact that images of black suffering seem not to spur people into action in the developed world as fast as white people suffering is a question the sociologists should deal with in the months to come.

But right now, the media is presenting this issue and inflating it until it becomes a distraction from the most important issue right now: utter and complete failure, beyond belief, by the authorities from the President on down to prepare for and respond to Katrina.

-koji K.

Originally posted by marg6043

And that is the truth, no country can take the power of nature, but what a country can do is prepare in time to make sure that the poor and needy do not suffer the most, and in this case it was "Mostly black Americans"

That is something that can not be denied.

If what your saying is true than why are the media giving the blacks most of the air time? Dont you think if we as a country did not care about blacks it wouldnt even make the news, and no the media are not the moral leaders of our country.

Originally posted by edsinger
Simply because this is a way that some can get at Bush. Its already started and I feel that the Governor filed to head the feds asking for control. Her political leanings caused delay that should not have been there.

Agreed.

The major setback for relief being insufficient was one of the two following reasons:

1) Governor waited more than 48 hours to ask for federal assistance.
2) The U.S. Constitution that empowers the Governor is wrong.

As for the race issue.

At some point individuals will need to accept some responsibility to prepare for and be informed of what can/will/has happened.

It is unfortunate that so many black Americans were left in such a devastated area.

It is even more unfortunate that they are black before they are Americans.

The socially accepted term "black Americans" even has black first.

Regardless of race, at some point when do all Americans accept responsibility for themselves and others?

When the Katrinas happen.

If the people stuck on the ground blame people for what has happened, shame on them. They will continue to look to others, rather than within for the strength they need to make it in this world.

I don't mean to sound cruel, but many people who remained had both the means necessary to escape, and the time to do it. Mind you, not most of them.

However, we are talking more than New Orleans here. We are talking about an area of damage and destruction covering 90,000,000 square miles. That is the size of Ohio and Michigan put together. New Orleans is what we hear, because the reporters are selling their stories from there.

[edit on 4-9-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]