Self improvement for people at the bottom?

Yeah thats right I'm in a bad enough spot were I'm asking for advice on dating. Wow.

Right well heres the problem, I'm probably one of the least attractive guys in my class. I'm not all that good looking, I don't play sports, in other words that really unpopular kid that you liked to spit on in high school.

Now heres the question, how in the world does one in my position appeal to a girl? I've done a bit of scouting, and realized I've got a lot of competition. Sadly it's almost all from the popular kids who seem to get whoever they want. Best way to sum up my position is to say I'm that geek who's up against the entire football team, and then more to follow.

So my question to all of you is..... How can I improve myself to the point of standing a chance? To all the ladies, what are you looking for in a guy who you would normally spit on?

[edit on 9/3/2005 by cyberdude78]

being someone in the same postion. I would say be funny. Be nice, show respect, open doors, treat a lady like a lady. Cant go wrong.

Two of the three most attractive traits in a male are a good sense of humour and self-confidence (not to be confused with an enormous ego). The third is intelligence.

Work on these three, and try not to worry about your appearance. Honestly, once you get out of high-school, it's just not going to matter very much.

And maybe try to ask out the kind of girls that don't spit on people......

Hmmmmmmmm!!!! This is getting to be embarrassing. I am often finding myself agreeing with Duzey as she is not posting the standard M1A stamped out solutions from the sorry genre of magazine quiz remedys that tend to pass as the solutions to so many relationship problems. She actually shows good sense.

I totally agree with Duzey. Intelligence , confidence, and a sense of humor.

Cyberdude, I surmise that you are very young and in a high glandular period in your life where gland activity and the call of the wild exceed your ability to deal with it to your satisfaction. No problem. What you are lacking in is certain social skills that you percieve are marketable in a high competition social structure.

Remember something Cyberdude and this is a difficult one to think through in a "instant gratification " marketplace..especially among young people.
Womenhood often at that age ..is purchased across the counter by buying more goods in a squeeze tube or a spray can. Even among many older women who should know better ..improved appearences and by this method increased purchasing power in the marketplaces due to physical attraction is what passes for womanhood among many. All of them no ..but among a great many ..yes...enough to create a huge market of goods and services for this kind of end product. This is not womanhood or even femaleness. It is the appearence of womanhood or femaleness. A very different thing.
It is the same for what passes for manhood today. Shallow consumption levels. The appearence of manhood ..not real manhood.

What I am telling you Cyberdude is to think whether or not this game is even worth playing on this type of playing field. At least on these terms.

You are at a point where you are liable to spend alot of time trying out for the approval and attention of women. If you are not careful they will show you contempt in your trying out efforts. Use you and go on to what they think are the prettys. It is standard practice among many women who define themselves by what they think they deserve ..entitlements. This is a formula for" Male Disposibility." not male success. Do not make yourself "disposable" for air headed women whos main forte in life is their entertainment and social entitlements. Especially young women who are still in school..they seldome function outside this entertainment social arena.

I agree with Duzey ...confidence , intelligence , and a sense of humor. Confidence is the big one..often tempered to confidence by intelligence...ie ..experience. You do not get this as a man by buying this or that product to make one appear to be more than one often is.

Though you come across by your postings to be very young...if you are at all the cerebral type...I recommend two books for you ..

Warren Farrell

Why men are the way they are.
The myth of male power.

Warren writes many books along this line of thinking but I recommend these two for starters. You can look them up on the web.

Cyberdude ...being a man in this world is seldome a buisness of instant satisfaction/gratification. It is often one of very great postponed gratification. What many women have learned by slick marketing is that they can have it both ways. By a career if they work or by marriage if it does not work out...a safety net to fall into so one never has to hit the concrete if one falls. These are not choices offered to men via a womans carreer earnings ..they are by and large not that noble.
What you are witnessing in your highschool or college is a training ground among women to take advantage of these options. Dating the sports jocks is training ground to acquire the best performers/lookers/survivability options just in case a career doesnt work out. Rember Cyberdude...what social status means to a woman...in the view of the other women. Many of them dont necessarily outgrow this view just because they get older.
Cyberdude...how many women do you know who dream about boredom,uglyness, and that they are the most important part of this phenomonon. Or do they dream about beauty and beautiful things and that they are surrounded by these ..at the very center of this beauty phenomonon!!!??? This is a very important clue to the value system in play here. This is called in part and parcel...the "Cinderella Complex."
Many women/girls never grow out of this deeply held religious belief system. It is a religion among many.
This is part and parcel of what Warren Farrell teachs you about your thinking if you can get past the "Oil Shortage "mentality dominating and blindsiding most of what passes for manhood today.

Cyberdude...at any age..do not ever delude yourself to thinking that women do not hunt or gather. You know the primordal "Hunter Gatherer."
The popular myth is that this is a male trait. It is not..at all. Just because women do not appear to be hunting in the manner of the traditional male..does not mean she is not hunting and gathering. This is very important for your survival especially as you get older.

Cyberdude...do not concern yourself with the competition from the jocks on the field. The facts are that twenty years from now ..no one will remember thier names...most of the women too.
Your main task is to insure your survivability for the future not necessarily your social life. Imporperly handled your social life can doom you. Work on your earning potential/education/thinking skills. Insure your survivability and you will have female hunter gatherers beating a path to your door. You will actually get tired of them after a while. Your job will be to weed out the riff raff and get the best value for your time and moneys. The best value is not what most of us have been groomed to think it is.

Thanks,
Orangetom

well its all about the other person too imo,

you want someone you can be yourself freely around, someone that just cliques with you


but hey thats meh :p


Along with confidence comes assertiveness. Don't let things pass you by. gotta be willing to risk it, otherwise just stay down in that hole.

How about some advice from a 40 yr old female? I suppose I am old enough to be your Mom, but I don't have any kids and I am weird also, so.

In any case, I agree with alot that's already been said, and I would like to add: As people get older they begin to look for someone with similar ideas/lifestyle and who is an interesting person. To be interesting, you must have life experience. People in your age range are on the end of childhood, many have not really lived yet. Sure, maybe a few, but most are just big children living in an isolated world where surface things (such as clothes sports and clicks) pass for 'experience'. So I suppose I would say: live life, expand and think about yourself. Maybe you are older in mind, or kind of introverted, so find things that would suit your personality. Do things outside of school-get a part time job or maybe you could take some classes at a community college.

And the same goes for when you'll be 25 and looking for women. And 35. Expand yourself, meet women through common activities, live an interesting life.

I could have got married several different times, have kids, live in suburbia.
BORING!!! I'd rather have an interesting life. And no, not all us females are out for y'alls money. So don't be intimidated by us career girls! And smart girls!


Niki
(Oh, PS: I was an ugly dork in High School and now I'm a Hot Babe!)

I was an ugly dork in high school. Now im a slightly less ugly dork.

But dont let the dorkness get you down ! Look for a person with similar interests, trust me it will make a world of a difference.

That being said, it takes time for the right person to come along.

Im not the best with the ladies either.



:bnghd:

I have put this in other postings before and have decided to put it here though if you are still young and in school it may not mean much to you at present. Keep it an use it for information ...for future usage.

What a knowlegable wise man comes to a woman for is "Peace" ..
He does not come to her for "Piece" as this can be gotten anywhere and is not a commodity in short supply contrary to the thinking of the average "oil shortage "mentality of what passes for males today.

Peace requires real commitment from a woman..even in a dating situation. It does not require the "appearence of commitment " but real commitment and all that goes with it. The appearence of commitment is a very different thing and it is phoney.

Most men today do not know the difference and there are no schools on this subject even in graduate level colleges.
Most women today do not know the difference because most men are so dirt dumb that they dont know the difference either.

Piece and access to percieved beauty are so overated that so many men sacrafice themselves ignorantly for this formula that they are willing to doom themselves for a lifetime of misery to maintain access to this misbegotten formula for disaster. Any price..even thier very souls. It is a treadmill for the unwary unknowing male...female too..
Most of the women you think are so hot today..in twenty years their beauty/purchasing power will fade at the same rate their behinds will widen. They will not be able to buy enough products to make up the difference.
Many women ...when they percieve the clock striking midnight and they dont have lifes options "locked in " go for a career in men...this means they must specialize in "Piece". Anything else will mean real commitment and they will avoid this. Not all women mind you but enough to make a huge market for these products and ideology/religion. This is why "Piece" will never be a commodity in short supply.
This is why you need to pull your head out of your backside and think it through. A tall order I realize for a young man with a "oil shortage access to beauty " mentality.

Hope you are able to understand this and put it to use at some time in your life..more men should know this but not much hope for them. Way to dumb. They think like alot of women ..that Piece is the only game in town..it is not !!

Thanks,
Orangetom

I always struggled with lack of self confidence. Small, glasses, goofy and real gift for saying the wrong thing and making a fool out of myself.

Somewhere along the line in my youth an older guy told me to learn how to play the guitar if you want to be a hit with the ladies. Also Sing!!

Best advice I ever received. Three weeks to instant popularity.

The really important thing is that the world of music will be opened and the friends you make [not just women] playing with others, is the greatest thing in the world. Musicians rock!

Just being able to be confident doing almost anything will do wonders for your selfconfidence and the ladies will pick up on it and walaaa...

IMPORTANT: Do not be intimidated. Start today!!


[edit on 5-9-2005 by whaaa]

[edit on 5-9-2005 by whaaa]

That is true, they like musicians indeed. And you dont have to be Axl Rose !

Its amazing how impressed the ladies get with the guitars

nevermind sorry

[edit on 9/6/2005 by Conspiracy Theorist06]

Sounds to me like you ought to slay the captain of the football team in hand-to-hand combat, and then eat his heart to take his power unto yourself.

Or, failing that, just try and find a girl who cares more about personality than looks; that gets easier as you get older, and even though it's pretty tough in high school, I swear it can be done.

be gay? ...just an alternative.

i also agree with what was said above, the most important thing is sense of humour and confidence. however, looks do also come in to it. we don't like to think of ourselves as picking people because of their looks, but matter of fact...we do. what will initially attract a girl to you or you to a girl is looks, so if there's no initial attraction you'll find it hard to get a girl. perhaps you are also setting your standards and goals too high. the girls the football players have, are probably out of your league, most likely premier league, ya know...10s, 9s and maybe 8s. obviously you need to aim lower, the 6s, 5s or 4s? also when you do find a girl it's likely that she was in the same position as you, so look for any girl that hasn't dated in a while as well.

if worst comes to worst i actually heard and read on the internet one time that some males even go through life not having sex once! so hopefully you won't fall in to that catagory. prom! that's a sure thing for a date, there's gotta be some girls in your school that no one else will touch?

well...let us all know how you get on

Thanks for the excellent advice everybody. Now to start looking, which could take a while but I guess I have to start somewhere. This could be tricky, finding someone worth the time to date(hate to say it, but some girls are untouched for a good reason), but won't just reject me on sight.

1) Women say they want a "sensative" man.

This means act like a badass! Show little respect for anything at all. Complain about the system, and blame everyone else for your problems.

Slowest thing in the world: A woman making up her mind.
Fastest thing in the world: A woman changing her mind.




True advice:
Know yourself, and act accordingly.
Be yourself, and see if any women notice you. If they do not, then you were not meant to breed. If they do notice you, keep being yourself. They may fall in love with who you are, but they will want to change that.

lol lol lol:

you posted:

"Slowest thing in the world: A woman making up her mind.
Fastest thing in the world: A woman changing her mind. "

Now that is funny..but true. I would be very hard pressed to debate that statement with you.

As to the concept of a woman wanting a "sensitive man" Rubbish. Translation of sensative man. A man who is sensitive to them and their clues and cues. They dont want a man who is so sensitive he is competition for them in the goods and services department. They dont want a man who is so sensitive the man consumes and requires more than they!! ie...thinks and conducts himself like a woman.
Alot of men have been fooled by this "sensitive man" hoax over the years. It is a standard line among some women. Makes me sick.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Don't worry about what you look like right now, just concentrate on not being a dick. That always helps. You're probably going to end up at least a little better looking as you get older, but if you're a dick, it doesn't even matter.

Be considerate of others, but don't be a 'nice guy', that is don't roll over for anyone unless you know they're willing to roll over for you too.

Try picking up an electric guitar and learning to play. Of course, then you have to deal with members of the opposite sex who are willing to hang out with guitar players, which is mixed to say the least. If you learn to play drums, you'll only get to hang out with guitar players and their skanky girlfriends, so consider that.

Be confident in yourself, be enthusiastic about the things you do, whether they are things you want to do, or things you have to do. But especially the things you have to do, because chances are there are others around you who also have to do what you're doing, and that enthusiasm can make an impression on people.

Last but not least, try not to get too hung up on one girl. You'll just drive yourself crazy, especially if she's not interested. If you find one that is, go ahead and get hung up, but realize the future pain that they could represent for you, and vice-versa.

Oh, and if you find you can't be honest with someone, you might as well forget about it, 'cause it'll never last.

that guitar thing works for sure, you don't even need to work hard to find a girl when you're in a band, they just sorta flock to you. which is wierd...cause we weren't even a good band but it didn't stop girls thinking i was 100 times better looking just because i played guitar. the only problem was when we got in to bed...because they always wanted the guitar and well...there just wasn't room! so i made her choose, me or the guitar...she chose the guitar

Originally posted by shaunybaby
that guitar thing works for sure, you don't even need to work hard to find a girl when you're in a band, they just sorta flock to you. which is wierd...cause we weren't even a good band but it didn't stop girls thinking i was 100 times better looking just because i played guitar. the only problem was when we got in to bed...because they always wanted the guitar and well...there just wasn't room! so i made her choose, me or the guitar...she chose the guitar

You're just a pansy.

cyberdude, I know this may sound like a cop-out, but I think you should wait till after high-school before you go looking for a girlfriend. Girls in high school are as insecure as they come and therefore go looking for supposedly "secure" guys as in dumbarse jocks who are cocky and will one day end up bagging your groceries or giving you your burger at McDonalds or Hungry Jacks. Not to mention, many girls and guys in high school can be incredibly shallow and do things purely for image purposes.

[edit on 12/9/05 by D]