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NEWS: Bush Suspends Posse Comitatus, Active Military Pour into New Orleans

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posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 10:12 AM
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President Bush announced that the Defense Department will assist in rescue efforts of Hurricane Katrina afflicted areas, especially New Orleans. Reports indicate that dozens of military helicopters are now evacuating the New Orleans Convention center at a rapid pace. The posse comititus law prevents the U.S. active military from participating in American law enforcement, but President Bush has suspended the law for the affected areas.
 



www.msnbc.msn.com
WASHINGTON - President Bush said Saturday he will send 7,000 additional active duty forces to the Gulf Coast region.

“The enormity of the task requires more resources and more troops,” he said in his weekly Saturday address. “We will not rest until we get this right and the job is done.”

“Where our response is not working we will make it right,” he added, reflecting his earlier statements that the federal relief effort could be better.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


This should have been done a long time ago, but better late then never...the live reports from FOX's Geraldo Rivera are good, it looks like finally these last people in these horrible centers are being taken out by the active duty military.




posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 10:42 AM
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Wow, so Bush can suspend laws at will, eh? I wonder if a bunch of these people will try to sue the government over the dismal response. Of course they probably can't because of immunity.



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 10:44 AM
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Bush sending Federal active duty troops into here is probably illegal and could probably be impeached for it, but I doubt anyone would dare suggest that since it's obviously needed.



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 10:48 AM
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You dont need to suspend Posse Comitatus to allow the military to aid refugees and rescue people.

Removing Posse Comitatus would only serve to allow the military to "execute the laws" i.e. searches, seizures and arrests.



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by subz
You dont need to suspend Posse Comitatus to allow the military to aid refugees and rescue people.

Removing Posse Comitatus would only serve to allow the military to "execute the laws" i.e. searches, seizures and arrests.


I agree with you subz, but an overbroad interpretation, as in some other laws, has endangered America before.

Here is a link talking about it:



The Posse Comitatus Act (Section 1385 of Title 18 of the United States Code) states: "Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."

The Act is an intimidating, irritating and insidious anachonism that has endangered America's security instead of enhancing it, even though no one ever was prosecuted under it.

Like the "wall" between intelligence and law enforcement that finally came down AFTER the Twin Towers were destroyed and The Patriot Act became law, because very persuasive liberals apparently had feared America's government and military more than America's enemies, foreign and domestic, and their egregious error had become obvious, its effect extended beyond its express terms.

Full Story: www.renewamerica.us...



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 11:00 AM
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Are we supposed to herald this as some sort of brilliant move, or maybe forgive the earlier fumbles because of this?

If this was followed up with news that FEMA was being stood down, and being put under a serious congressional investigation for their severe mishandling of the situation and wasting 500 million dollars a day of our money, I might almost be happy with this. Yet instead we are seeing further involvement of the alphabet soup agency emergency response theory. And setting a dangerous precedent by allowing regular military to take over duties that could and should be handled by other agencies.

No this is much too little much too late to give me any satisfaction. if anything the dangerous precedent it sets coupled with the total incompetence of FEMA and other agencies coupled with our inability to accept other nations extremelly generous offers of aid and rescue teams in the critical first 72 hours has me more worried and angrier than ever.

Edit: No amount of cheap tricks and spare no expense federal aid now will make up for the shameful way this was handled. It took almost a week to shame this administration into doing anything truly effective. While I am happy something is being done, we should never forget what we have seen in the last week. This should be a wake up call that real change is needed and we cannot wait until next election to make it happen. Write your representatives, call them, send E-mail. It is imperative we make ourselves heard before this is allowed to happen again.

[edit on 3-9-2005 by Sugarlump]



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by subz
You dont need to suspend Posse Comitatus to allow the military to aid refugees and rescue people.

Removing Posse Comitatus would only serve to allow the military to "execute the laws" i.e. searches, seizures and arrests.


And that is exactly what he is using them for:



Their main priority, he said, would be to maintain law and order.

From the BBC



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by Sugarlump
No amount of cheap tricks and spare no expense federal aid now will make up for the shameful way this was handled. It took almost a week to shame this administration into doing anything truly effective. While I am happy something is being done, we should never forget what we have seen in the last week.


You have voted Sugarlump for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

NEVER!



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 11:18 AM
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subz is pretty much correct.

Here's what the Coast Guard says, since they're the military most often engaged in such activities:


The "Posse Comitatus Act" (18 USC 1385): proscribed use of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws" except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests).


Of course, I'm sure that the military can return fire if attacked, and, given the exigencies of the situation, probably have an 'understood' permission to hold people if the situation warrants (however you'd care to define that).

But the only way you're going to have the military do actual cop work is if the president or the governor enacts martial law -- which, despite the hysterical assertions to the contrary by some of the people here, has not been done (yet).

There are two rather interesting sidebars to the discussion I have noticed in the past week or so.

First, The United States is unique in having a Constitution which deliberately weakens the central government. Although the Feds have been encroaching on traditional local powers over the past 70 years, there are still many responsibilities which are, by the Constitution, the states’, cities’, counties’, and (in the case of Louisiana alone) parishes’. Foreigners (especially New Zealanders, Canadians, Australians, and Brits who share a lot of our culture and language but not our type of government) simply can’t understand how the sole superpower in the world does not simply mobilize everyone by emergency fiat. It’s because our government doesn’t work that way.

Second, you may have noticed it, but I’m afraid I missed all the television pictures of the tens of thousands of refugees being sent to the pre-prepared and stocked FEMA centers throughout the United States.

You know, the Secret Centers with the railroad cars and facilities for hundreds of thousands of people?

Of course, they never existed, and the crazies are strangely quiet about the fact that if there actually were such things, they’d be used now, but given the depths of human silliness, within a week or so, they will start to come up with a theory about why these non-existent facilities were deliberately withheld.

Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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it just makes sense that the government would have facilities like that. we had them during world war two and if that taught us anything it's that it would probably be better to keep their existence secret.

in simple scenarios, FEMA would simply comandeer schools and large buildings for use as interment facilities. under more turbulent conditions, they'd probably implement some version of what the tinfoil hat gang have been telling us.

all i'm saying is, knowing what we know, about history and governments in general, why wouldn't there be a FEW "secret" places ready for use as camps?



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 12:39 PM
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it says that massive amounts of helicopters are helping now...

but, why did it take so long!?!?!?

why NOW and not THEN???





posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 12:57 PM
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I can understand why everyone asks why it took so long for the Federal Government to get there, but as I stated in another post the local government is as much to blame.

If you're going to ask the President why, then you need to ask the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana why as well.

Mr. Mayor, why did 2/3 of the New Orlean's Police Force skip town?

Mr. Mayor, why didn't you command the local law enforcement until Federal help arrived?

Mr. Mayor, why didn't you assist the people in New Orleans UNTIL the Federal help arrived?

Mr. Mayor and Ms. Governor, why didn't you personally call up the Louisiana State Guard instead of waiting for the Federal Government to do it?



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 01:00 PM
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But the only way you're going to have the military do actual cop work is if the president or the governor enacts martial law -- which, despite the hysterical assertions to the contrary by some of the people here, has not been done (yet).

The Mayor of New Orleans says he asked the governor for martial law in his city "two days ago", which would have been Tuesday. I think his interview was on Thursday.

IMO, if camps do or do not exist, it matters very little. For example: Texas Stadium exists, and Cowboy's owner Jerry Jones is mega-rich. He doesn't open his doors or stadium to the refugees, so why would FEMA, Moonies, Mormons or anybody else have to open theirs, secret or otherwise?

If FEMA has secret camps, etc, why would Katrina automatically cause them to reveal such? The conspiracy continues, probably.


[edit on 3-9-2005 by smallpeeps]



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 01:09 PM
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Anyone that steps up to the line and defends this administration at this point says one thing about their psyche: "They will never wake up from the lie no matter what and will follow this runaway locomotive called the New World Order off the cliif into the abyss"



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77


The Posse Comitatus Act (Section 1385 of Title 18 of the United States Code) states: "Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."

The Act is an intimidating, irritating and insidious anachonism that has endangered America's security instead of enhancing it, even though no one ever was prosecuted under it.

Like the "wall" between intelligence and law enforcement that finally came down AFTER the Twin Towers were destroyed and The Patriot Act became law, because very persuasive liberals apparently had feared America's government and military more than America's enemies, foreign and domestic, and their egregious error had become obvious, its effect extended beyond its express terms.

Full Story: www.renewamerica.us...

Sorry dj but the "very persuasive liberals" the quote you posted is refering to is actually your founding fathers. There is a reason why there were checks and balances written into your countries greatest achievement: its constitution.

Posse comitatus is not a hinderance to the United States, its a protection against military dictatorship. It might sound far fetched now but give it 10, 15, 20 years and things would change. You can add another, albeit not quite succinct, certainty to the list of death and taxes and that is create a loophole and it will eventually be exploited.

Removing posse comitatus wont help with the rescue efforts and it should be reinstated as soon as law and order is restored in New Orleans. If it is not you would have to rip up the 6th and 7th amendments, they would be useless.

[edit on 3/9/05 by subz]



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 01:20 PM
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The idea that Posse Comitatus has been suspended is wrong

The feds finally were able to take over the bumbled effort once Governorette Blanco signed the papers to federalize the Guard.

It would take congress to repeal Posse Comitatus.



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by subz
Removing posse comitatus wont help with the rescue efforts and it should be reinstated as soon as law and order is restored in New Orleans.
[edit on 3/9/05 by subz]


This is exactly what I'm thinking and worried about. As most of us already know all too well. They have a really bad habit of leaving these holes open and exploiting them indefinately. Does anyone really think that this will be any different???

Who else has the feeling that this is exactly what they wanted all along and just needed the excuse to do it???

Who else has the feeling that from this day on, the Military and Local Law Enforcement are going to be one in the same???

Welcome to the Begining of a Military Police State and America's New Fuhrer!!!



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 01:30 PM
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Agreed, Pheonix.
Found this, may be of interest to some.
The Myth of Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus





seekerof



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by magnito_student
Anyone that steps up to the line and defends this administration at this point says one thing about their psyche: "They will never wake up from the lie no matter what and will follow this runaway locomotive called the New World Order off the cliif into the abyss"


Please Neo...wake us up...we seem to need your enlightenment to wake to what you call the real world.

Do you have a blue pill?....or is it the red one?....


Yeah, I think we can see whose "psyche" is out of the loop here...



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Foreigners (especially New Zealanders, Canadians, Australians, and Brits who share a lot of our culture and language but not our type of government) simply can’t understand how the sole superpower in the world does not simply mobilize everyone by emergency fiat. It’s because our government doesn’t work that way.

Second, you may have noticed it, but I’m afraid I missed all the television pictures of the tens of thousands of refugees being sent to the pre-prepared and stocked FEMA centers throughout the United States.

You know, the Secret Centers with the railroad cars and facilities for hundreds of thousands of people?

Of course, they never existed, and the crazies are strangely quiet about the fact that if there actually were such things, they’d be used now, but given the depths of human silliness, within a week or so, they will start to come up with a theory about why these non-existent facilities were deliberately withheld.

Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.


the crazies say, 'why intern them? let them literally eat each other. they are interned by nature, OTS, in case you missed that little detail. maybe you missed that not only was american response slow, but offers of assistance from 'foreigners' were refused outright. canadian emergency teams were blocked by homeland security from entering the country. russians were refused, australians were refused. now, homeland security is being used to block aid(food) from the red cross.
the army is being used to protect property, instead of human life. priorities, priorities.
the tinfoil hat crowd says, "the more things change, the more they stay the same". even when there is a blatant NWO move being pulled, the blind lead the blind into the hole.



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