Electric cars

Today Yahoo published article “Fuji Heavy to develop electric car with TEPCO” news.yahoo.com.../nm/20050902/sc_nm/autos_subaru_tepco_electriccar_dc_1

Where was written:
“If the issues of charging time, driving range and cost are resolved, electric vehicles could be a more attractive alternative to fuel-cell vehicles, which require massive investment for hydrogen fuelling stations, among other hurdles.”
I send a reply to this article: news.messages.yahoo.com...
Here I present this my comment too.
“Recharging time - NO PROBLEM
by: sec_346370 09/02/05 04:56 am
Msg: 1 of 2
1 recommendation
Recharging time is not a problem if change uncharged batteries to just charged batteries. We need to have not a CHARGING STATIONS, but a place, where batteries are replaced by charged ones (in a few minutes time). In that case we will have one more advantage - they can sell cars at a lower price - without batteries. You can buy batteries additionally (if you have no) and with a different capacity (according to your needs and money). Or batteries costs may be included in price for batteries replacement...Or even they decrease price for a car if you sign contract to use a car for 3-5 years at a higher rate for electricity/replacement (something we have in mobile phones market now). No problem. “

Does any one want to discuss and develop this idea a bit more?

Interesting, my wife and I were watching a program today, and saw a lady using a hydrogen fuel pump in Germany for her hybrid car. Quite fascinating indeed.

I have been trying to follow this, as usual this stuff is way slow getting to the masses, as companies would loose profit if switching to quickly from one product to another.
Im all for and believe in free energy...so lets see what the future holds...

Peace

Dalen

Tesla Roadster

The onlypeople in the business that want Hydrogen is the oil companies because it keeps them in charge. Hydrogen also has a dangerous byproduct that will have to be dealt with. Lawyers will never let it happen.

mikell

Originally posted by mikellmikell
The onlypeople in the business that want Hydrogen is the oil companies because it keeps them in charge. Hydrogen also has a dangerous byproduct that will have to be dealt with. Lawyers will never let it happen.

mikell

How is it a dangerous by product? Also, how would the oil companies stay in charge. (they will regardless, I suppose, be it electric, etc. Monopolies dont die, they change faces, etc.)

Peace

Dalen

Seems that you'd need a warehouse of considerable size to do battery swaps with perhaps a thousand cars a day.
A figure, not unheard of at some large gas stations.

Not to mention that the recharging system would need to be very large.
I don't think that today's technology would allow sufficient recharging speeds for so many batteries.

The personnel base would be quite large as well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As far as Hydrogen having a dangerous byproduct, what would that be?

Gasoline has it's own safety issues.

How about this then. Whenever the lease is up, you trade in the car for an entirely new one with new batteries. People keep cars for what, 2 years on average nowadays? If we can develop a battery that doesn't lose a significant amount of charge in 2 years, then such a program would work out fairly nicely. Each time they go into trade in their car, they also get an upgrade on various systems, etc. For the used leased car, they could just replace the batteries and resell it and so on.

Originally posted by dAlen

Originally posted by mikellmikell
The onlypeople in the business that want Hydrogen is the oil companies because it keeps them in charge. Hydrogen also has a dangerous byproduct that will have to be dealt with. Lawyers will never let it happen.

mikell

How is it a dangerous by product? Also, how would the oil companies stay in charge. (they will regardless, I suppose, be it electric, etc. Monopolies dont die, they change faces, etc.)

Peace

Dalen

Because the majority of the Hydrogen we will be getting will be coming from Natural Gas and NOT water if they have their way...

And how would converting natural gas into hydrogen be a bad thing?

Don't tell me your one of the people who actually believe that H2 is highly explosive...
have you ever seen hydrogen burn?
I suppose you've been watching films about the Hindenburg, that was gaseous hydrogen... not H2.

So, I will now ask you... how is gasoline safer than H2?
IMO, gasoline can be used as a deadly weapon... generic freefall bombs, molotov cocktails, etc are made using gasoline.

Nobody has ever dropped a case of H2 on someone expecting it to produce an explosion. Though, if the case was metal, it would make a nice bump on the noggon. lol.

Seriously though, what source are you getting your information from?
The only people H2 is going to be more dangerous than Gasoline to is the oil companies.
But even they will still be able to use oil for plastics, and lubricants. And will undoubtedly own hydrogen sources aswell.

Electrolysis is really really inefficient.

Natural Gas is a finite resource.

Extracting Hydrogen from Natural Gas is not a clean process like H2O electrolysis from renewable energy.

Hydrogen is extremely difficult to store.

Solid Storage of Hydrogen decreases efficiency even further.

Hydrogen has little chance of becoming part of the solution and has a much larger chance of just exasperating the problem.

EV's and Flexi Fuel Plug in Hybrids(Electric Drive too hopefully) is the way to go for consumer transportation. Hydrogen may make sense in certain applications in certain sectors in certain regions.

[edit on 19-11-2006 by sardion2000]

[edit on 19-11-2006 by sardion2000]

You still havent said how it's actually dangerous.

If you're thinking about it environmentally wise, no natural gas is not 100% environmentally safe... but it's one hell of alot safer for the environment than pumping gallons of oil into the oceans during drilling, extraction, and transport. Not to mention the emissions from cars.

And be reasonable here, you don't really think a company will survive against another company who harvests their hydrogen a cheaper way do you? Of course not.

For the gasoline loving nut jobs...
The hydrogen car companies have already proven the power you can get out of the hydrogen system. Sure, you won't be drag racing against a super-supercharged 70's mustang, but do you really use the top end speed of your current car on your daily commute to work?
I sure as hell dont.

I don't see where the issue is. Compared to gasoline, it is simply the better choice.

If you don't think hydrogen is enough, then you design a better system.
You've got the rest of your life to try.

[edit on 19-11-2006 by johnsky]

Originally posted by johnsky
You still havent said how it's actually dangerous.

I don't believe I ever said Hydrogen was dangerous. In fact, I've argued against that nonsense in the past on ATS and was ignored as is par for the course.

If you're thinking about it environmentally wise, no natural gas is not 100% environmentally safe...

Have you even read any of my posts on this thread? I argue for more Electric Vehicles and Flexi Fuel Plugin Hybrids(With Electric Drive). It's just a more efficient way to an EV dominated consumer transport infrastructure.

but it's one hell of alot safer for the environment than pumping gallons of oil into the oceans during drilling, extraction, and transport. Not to mention the emissions from cars.

Hydrogen is only feasible when you're splitting H2O with electricity gathered from non-polluting sources. The way that the big oil companies want to do it would negate all the perceived "benefits" of a Hydrogen Economy.

Hate to break it to you, but we aren't going to enter the true Hydrogen Economy until we nail down Fusion and who knows when that will happen, and even then, only a minority of drivers on the road will be using Fuel Cell vehicles. Everyone else will be driving along in their EV's and won't see much of a need to switch again.

Also, as an Energy Storage medium Hydrogen leaves much to be desired.

And be reasonable here, you don't really think a company will survive against another company who harvests their hydrogen a cheaper way do you? Of course not.

I'm trying to be objective, not reasonable. Don't confuse the two. If such a discovery happens, then my opinion may shift a little. My main concern will still be where the electricity that we are storing in the Hydrogen is coming from.

I highly doubt you'll see garage fuel ups either for hydrogen, too expensive, yet with Plugin Hybrids and EV's you can easily put in a plug in every driveway/garage for a very reasonable price. We have the infrastructure already up already for a more flexible and decentralized infrastructure, why let it go to waste due to wishful thinking?

I don't see where the issue is. Compared to gasoline, it is simply the better choice.

You're ignoring plain old electricity and hybrids. It will be far cheaper in the long run to seamlessly transfer onto EV's through the Hybrid stepping stone, then it will be to completely turn the whole sector on it's head with Hydrogen. Why I say it will be turned on it's head? Well the only way it will reach mass adoption is through a government mandate...

If you don't think hydrogen is enough, then you design a better system.
You've got the rest of your life to try.

Tesla Roadster

Silver Zinc Batteries Show up LiIon Batteries

[edit on 20-11-2006 by sardion2000]