James Randi is an idiot!!

Originally posted by 1llum1n471
reply to post by A Fortiori

 

You keep falling back on that same argument even though we've already discussed that it is based on fallacy. You're also being quite hypocritical by playing the "only trust field experts" card which is a common complaint of paranormal investigators when they cannot have access to the scientific resources or expertise they need.

How is it a "fallacy"?

Seriously, I wouldn't let my plumber work on my BMW, nor my mechanic on my plumbing. I wouldn't let a PhD in history perform my open heart surgery.

Do you know what "forensic" means in a title? It means you can appear in court as an expert, that you are acknowledged as an "expert". I would make Randi an "expert" in the Uri Geller spoon bending, IE "stage magic", and would listen to him explain the illusion. I would not, however, ask him to explain why the large hadron collider isn't working, or what the scientists are doing wrong.

That is not "fallacious" that is just common sense.

reply to post by bsbray11

Explode? The sensational language is coming from you. I already explained that those emoticons just reinforced a point I was making, which they did.

OK, well I apologize for my use of emoticons and your vivid imagination.

I am aware how fast science is moving, and it is beginning to quantify and validate the very things JREF is "skeptical" of, which just goes back to what I was saying about having preconceptions and being biased against CERTAIN ideas only.

Care to share? Some specific examples might be helpful.

reply to post by A Fortiori


You are attempting to judge the intellectual capacity and base arguments on assumptions about someone's capacity to understand and assimilate knowledge. You're resorting to fallacious appeals and Ad hominem attacks which really are helping this discussion but don't let me stop the hi 5 sessions. Even at the most basic level, he can have an opinion on things.

Your attempt at using specific job titles for different types of jobs does not work here. What does job specificity have to do with intellectual capacity? Let's not be snobbish about this.

Originally posted by 1llum1n471

I am aware how fast science is moving, and it is beginning to quantify and validate the very things JREF is "skeptical" of, which just goes back to what I was saying about having preconceptions and being biased against CERTAIN ideas only.

Care to share? Some specific examples might be helpful.

There is a decades-old example in Carl Jung's "Synchronicity: An Acausal Connecting Principle." I summarized that test and its results earlier, but I would rather you read the book than take my word for it. About the best you can do after all is just claim Jung was lying I suppose, if you really ARE a "skeptic" in the sense that you will just seek to cling to the same old beliefs.

I also own one of William Tiller's books, which has data from several experiments he did on separate phenomena than what Jung was studying, demonstrating non-electromagnetic energy exchanges between people separated by physical distance.

Those are two examples that I am personally aware of.

reply to post by bsbray11


Once again look at how confrontational your answer is and then wonder why I ask why you're angry. You contend that after reading the examples provided I will have to say that Jung was lying. I haven't read that particular work from Jung or Tiller, but I'll take a look once I have some more time. I'd also be interested in how these studies have anything to do with Randi or the JREF as you did say "it (science) is beginning to quantify and validate the very things JREF is "skeptical" of". Thanks!

reply to post by 1llum1n471


I guess just read the work when you get a chance and then come back and drop us a line about it.

Maybe I am wrong, who knows. I guess it will remain to be seen, if you have enough interest to read either of those things in the first place.

Check out this video where Randi debates two mediums and a psychiatrist. He sure looks foolish in it. lol

www.youtube.com...

Also, Randi was proven wrong about no magician endorsing Uri Geller. Here's the proof:

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by WWu777

Also, Randi was proven wrong about no magician endorsing Uri Geller. Here's the proof:

Who the hell cares? Geller was a fraud and he has made a 180 on having supernatural powers.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by cripmeister]

reply to post by Off_The_Street


There is tons of evidence. The crop circles have numbers of anamolous clues that leave scientists without answers, the real ones do. Those are the evidence. What, did they can play GOD and give answers to these mysteries. The mysteries, the anomalies are the evidence.

Also, testimony is evidence.

Implants are evidence.

Dna studied, coupled with testimony is evidence.

There are many people who have witnessed crafts and videoed them. They dont come out, take off their plasma lights and let you get clear shots. Look to your governments, policies and aggressive behavior to determine why.

There is testimony by very credentialed people, pilots, military, black ops, even government officials.

In short the evidence is ABUNDANT considering this isnt an Officially endorsed and secretive thing. Its up to us to pay attention. spread the word and demand the truth, then they'll come forth.

Anyone who thinks collecting stamps is better than wondering at weird lights in the sky is a fool. I'm sorry but I have to know the truth, I simply have to. This universe is far too amazing to be put aside of thoughts in favour of collecting stamps.

Seriously, what a retard. He's basically saying collecting stamps is more intellectual than investigating what might be aliens from outer space. What a total fool..

Originally posted by Jonas86
Anyone who thinks collecting stamps is better than wondering at weird lights in the sky is a fool.

I was thinking the same thing, you beat me to it.

What kind of miserable sarcastic person do you have to be, with no social life at all, to scoff at people who wonder at space and the stars, tell them to "get a life," and then tell them to collect stamps instead? A real grumpy ass, boring old man, sounds like to me. If not in flesh then in kindred spirits. Everyone knows you religiously "skeptical" (ha!) lot are miserable. Find new ways of expressing your discontent with life already, before all the rest of you give yourselves cancer just like James Randi did.

Originally posted by DaTerminator
but the insults that he hurls at the UFology community are appauling.

Honestly, we deserve it. For you not to reconize that very simple and easy to understand logic then your the one with the blinders on here.

Read the very threads on this forum, in them you will find (within seconds) why it is so easy to ridicule those of us interested in this subject. Seriously...read some of the threads and posts around here....they make me very sad.

I don't know why folks are so worried about some idiot skeptic here, or a ufo non-believer there.....they don't amount to anything anyway. You guys should be more worried about the large believer crowd that makes us all look like complete fools.

Who does more damage to this subject? Believers or skeptics? The answer is obvious. Just like religious nuts do more public relation damage to whatever religion they are nutty about, so do the alien/ufo believers do to us all.

Stop wasting time with skeptics and debunkers. Start working on why they are so successful at making us all look like fools so easily.

[edit on 13-7-2010 by IgnoreTheFacts]

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
Stop wasting time with skeptics and debunkers. Start working on why they are so successful at making us all look like fools so easily.

Um. Not sure what specifically you are referring to but I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking the resident "skeptics" aren't very successful at any such thing. Some of us are actually emotionally and socially developed and are turned off by the non-stop heavy sarcasm and insults that make up 99% of all "skepticism" on UFO forums.

Speaking of religions, let's take Christianity for example. Christians have as much evidence for the existence of God as atheists have for the definite non-existence of God. Both are going on "faith." The truth about "UFOs" is in the acronym itself: unidentified. Beyond that, with aliens, again, saying they don't exist is just as baseless as saying they do. There is nothing to "debunk" in these examples, from a purely objective and unbiased perspective. They are things that humanity still has not resolved, either popularly or scientifically.

Originally posted by SpacePunk
If I had a million dollars to offer, I'd add it to Randi's amount. There are plenty of so-called psychics, and other 'new age' types that could 'win' the prize, but they don't. It's really very simple. Claim to read minds, then read minds. Claim to move objects, then move objects. Etc...

If it is a real phenomena and skill then the result would be demonstrable one hundred percent of the time. Not 90, not 80, not 50.

This mindset completely baffles me. Can a person type words correctly 100% of the time? People even fall when taking steps... sometimes even drop apples when they reach for one. Humans are forever hampered by human error even when speaking. Thats what makes them human. Its not like breathing or your heartbeat being controlled by unconcious areas of the brain - if there were no 'skill' involved in these supposed paranormal occurances ... well they wouldn't be PARAnormal to begin with anyways would they?
Bottom line - to assume that ANYTHING can be done perfectly 100% of the time is outright ludicris and more nonsensical than any claims made by say even Blossom Goodchild

now to read the rest of the thread - sorry if this was addressed before its just that sort of thinking bugs me to no end.

Stop wasting time with skeptics and debunkers. Start working on why they are so successful at making us all look like fools so easily

ill answer this no problem, and for both sides. the fact of the matter is, people really just dont know what the f they are talking about most of the time. skeptics spent like 2 hours one day watching videos of debunkers, and think, oh god, that makes so much sense, im done, there is nothing more i need to research into the topic, i know everything. the believers just dont study their subject like that. they lurk around these forums, and watch a video or two every now and then, so when they are challenged by someone that is really no better then them at the subject, but may have a few points more on it then them, they lose in a debate, and then just get mad and come on here and make a thread about it, rather then just dive into the topic at hand and educate themselves.

when i spent a year in a half dedicating myself to philosophy, spiritualism, and theology, no one could debate me with any half ass argument about why their religion was so top tier. i was way more informed then them. point being, if you dont want to be like, um, ah, uh, um, when a skeptic comes along and says, "telepathic aliens, nonsense, telekenisis, nonsense, interdimensional travel, nonsense", you have to immerse yourself into the topic on a daily basis. no one is that busy that they cant dedicate an hour a day to a documentary, a radio show, or some pages in a book.

ats is an interesting place to get info, but its riddled with garbage. must be some new thing, as ive noticed a trend on forums lately of people who have joined them in the last few years are complete "trolls", or just not smart at all. i dont know, maybe its a sign of the times.

i think the evidence out there is over abundant. matter of fact, i dont think, i know the evidence out there is over abundant, and i know that randi is not spending his free time trying to educate himself on the topic. why? because he doesnt freaking have to. who cares. its some weird human thing that we just have to have everyone believe what we believe, see what we see, feel what we feel. if people want to walk around all dumb and will nilly, let them. if randi wants to stay blind to all the info out there, then let him. at this point in the game, if your still denying anything other then what you can sense with your extremely dull five senses, or only believe what YOU have only personally seen, and just take the millions of paranormal reports in general that have been reported forever as just delusional people, then you sir have some personal issues.

i remember reading silvia browns books. only like 2 i think, well at least 2, and i was studying other topics also, and i found a silvia brown msn group back when they still had that, and i went into a thread and was like, silvia is cool, i like some of the things she is saying, but im like, how do you know she isnt just making up this stuff in her head. not like denying her psychic abilities, but in her own book she speaks of subjectivity and how consciousness can basically form desires based on the user. people replied with oh my god, why cant you just let us believe what we want, and blah blah blah. im like why, if she doesnt have a guardian angel and is just creating that in her mind, but still using psychic abilities, then that opens up another ball game. this was back in like 04 or so that i had this little discussion with them, but point being, they were so into just silvia brown and no other topic, and nothing else, they just were all ears and eyes shut to anything else. me, an open individual to the paranormal in general, was getting shunned by other believers for making valid points back then. what in the world. i wish i could somehow find that little conversation i had with them. it was weird to see how people were like, no no no, silvia is right, your hating.

honestly broadening my topics has helped immensely over the years. i never ever gave two craps about ufos, and aliens until like 3 years ago or so, and since then i never looked back. combining all the other stuff i researched with the ufo/alien stuff, while also adding my dabble into physics has just made the blocks fit better in my opinion. people need to study more, open their imaginations up again, which have been all but lost for a majority of society, and broaden their range of topics too.

or not, and keep filling ats up with silly threads, and completely inane replies.

its like people who worship michio kaku, so they cant believe a man a trillion times smarter then themselves, who they idolize, doesnt know the same physics behind some black ops scientist who works on time travel, and star gates. when the fact of the matter is, people need accept that there are things in this world that you just dont understand, wont know about, and still go on without you knowing. respects to kaku of course, but i accept that just because kaku doesnt know something, doesnt mean its not known ( does everyone forget he laughed at teleportation at one point, only to stand corrected later ) . if we're to use that line of reasoning for everything, jesus, we'd be in a world of trouble, oh wait, that line of reasoning is used ALL the time. ha ha.

"well my auntie says jesus was a white man who came from a turtle shell, and i dont know notin bout none dem other stories they tell in other churches. like i dont know what dem negroes believe, but i guess its something similar. you know we all just tryin to get to heaven" LOL. thats the type of stuff im talking about, that although slightly exaggerated, kinda not, that is how people will think, when he could solve all his questions by reading a damn book. theologians have spent decades putting together the pieces of religions and spiritual systems, and people in 2010 still dont see any similarities, and just stay blind to the truth.

humans dont need to be made into a slave race, a majority of them already are.

like the rest an out of public favour on stage illusionist trying to make money from his act, so he created a new act which was the illusion he cant find any evidence of the psychic and supernatural, a clever fraudster who caused sinister repercussions by creating sceptics who care not for life, not an idiot, but definitely a fool.