National Guard: stretched to a breaking point

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posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 04:31 PM
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The Gulf Coast disaster is further taxing the National Guard, already stretched to a breaking point in Iraq.

Sept. 1, 2005 | On Aug. 1, a spokesman for the Louisiana National Guard lamented to a local reporter that the state might be stretched for security personnel in the event of a big hurricane. Dozens of high-water vehicles, generators and Humvees were employed in Iraq, along with 3,000 Louisiana National Guard troops.



"The National Guard needs that equipment back home to support the homeland security mission," the Louisiana National Guard's Lt. Col. Pete Schneider told a reporter from WGNO, the ABC affiliate in New Orleans. Schneider said that in the event of a hurricane, Louisiana would need help from neighboring states.

Amid the Gulf Coast rubble and looting, it appears Schneider may have been right. "Missing personnel is the big thing in this particular event -- we need our people," Lt. Andy Thaggard, a Mississippi National Guard spokesman told the Washington Post Wednesday. Mississippi has 4,000 National Guard troops in Iraq.

Military experts have long said that repeated, lengthy deployments to Iraq are decimating the National Guard. Dispirited veterans are leaving the Guard in droves and recruiting has plummeted.

However, on Wednesday, the National Guard Bureau responded that it had more than enough troops to go around. Currently, 8,200 National Guard troops are responding to the disaster in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida. While those states all have units deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, the National Guard said that it has not yet deployed all of its reserves to the Gulf Coast.

In addition to nearly 3,800 Louisiana National Guard troops already at work on relief efforts, the state has another 2,700 troops on hand. "Louisiana has 6,500 guard members available," said bureau spokesman Lt. Col. Mike Milord. "They have only used up about half of their force available." Mississippi still has another 5,000 troops in reserve, Milord said. "There are still forces in each state for the state to draw on," Milord said. He said the Gulf Coast states could also ask other, less affected states for help too.

In fact, late Wednesday, the Pentagon announced that 10,000 troops from 13 states outside the area would be divided between the hard-hit areas in Mississippi and Louisiana. And the Department of Defense announced it would send help from the active-duty military, including helicopters, a mobile hospital and Navy ships.

But the hurricane may very well launch new discussions about how far the country can stretch the National Guard, as it does double duty fighting terrorists and responding to forest fires and killer storms. (All of the Alabama National Guard units responding to Katrina have already served in Iraq, according to the Washington Post.)

Source:
Salon.com News

It is in Events like this that the Errors, Mistakes and weak points of the goverment are shown - and the results of its policies. Apparently many of the National Guards are currently serving in Iraq and the National Guard does not have the numbers to tackle this Disaster, and possibly thousands of people are reported dead with severeal thousands needed of immediate help.

[edit on 1/9/05 by Souljah]




posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 05:58 PM
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Souljah by tonight there will be 7,000 National Guardsman in New Orleans with another 30,000 on the way from all over the United States, and there will be 12,000 National Guardsman in the other affected areas.

You were saying?



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Souljah by tonight there will be 7,000 National Guardsman in New Orleans with another 30,000 on the way from all over the United States, and there will be 12,000 National Guardsman in the other affected areas.

I am saying this, General Custer:

Amid the Gulf Coast rubble and looting, it appears Schneider may have been right. "Missing personnel is the big thing in this particular event -- we need our people," Lt. Andy Thaggard, a Mississippi National Guard spokesman told the Washington Post Wednesday. Mississippi has 4,000 National Guard troops in Iraq.

Imagine that those 4000 would be on the ground helping people - but instead they are fighting somewhere in downtown Baghdad.

But the hurricane may very well launch new discussions about how far the country can stretch the National Guard, as it does double duty fighting terrorists and responding to forest fires and killer storms.

Are you sure that the Military can handle all the Tasks the Goverment is giving them?



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah

Are you sure that the Military can handle all the Tasks the Goverment is giving them?


if it cant do its job then its pretty much as useless military aint it? since the end of the Cold war where the number of troops have been cut and operations around the world has been increased the U.S. military has to adapt to deal with such situations either at home dealing with disasters or at overseas. i remember that we had to have help from Australia and Canada i believe to put down forest fires and that was before 9/11. wat was our troops doin then while not in Iraq just a couple of years in the future?



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 06:27 PM
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My hometown news source reported that there are 13,400 guardsmen helping with relief now with more on the way.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 06:47 PM
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If any of these numbers are true....where are they???? Why are the reporters not seeing them? And why did it take nearly 4 days to deploy them??? I'd point out that much of the language even acknowledges that there are not there YET, but are on their way??? Really? What are they doing? Eating dough-nuts?? Is this the type of speedy response anyone envisions for a disaster on this scale?

If anyone tells me this is about logistics, then fess up to the realization that a terror attack on a similar scale will be met with the same languid response!

[edit on 1-9-2005 by loam]



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 06:48 PM
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Perhaps if so many were not in Iraq...

They are called "National Guard". They aree supposed to guard OUR nation. Maybe even help control the borders to mexico.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 06:48 PM
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Something that I have been very worry about, is when something happen in our country of the magnitude of the tragic natural disaster in the south, are we going to have the necessary manpower to take over?

We will see in the coming days if we do or we don't.

Right now here in GA the Red Cross is asking for volunteers to go down to Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi to help and they are offering training.

If we are asking civilians for help will this, does that mean that we are short of trained manpower from our national guard?

I wonder.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 07:01 PM
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No Marg, it simply means that any and all help would be appreciated.
Prayers, support, and actual hands on are required, not second guessing.




seekerof



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 07:09 PM
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What if the 1000's of National Guard troops we keep hearing about
don't really even exist? Are they talking about calling up your GrandPa
that used to be in the service back to active duty? Where are these
guys and how long is it going to take them to get there?



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 07:19 PM
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Well, if anyone here has a teleporting machine to get the National Guard from other states down there instantaneously I’m sure we would all appreciate it very much. What no such machine exists? I could have sworn that from the way you guys were talking there had to be some out there.

Anyway, it takes time to mobilize, equip and transport the troops, to the area. Then you have to set up what they are going to do and how to get to certain areas with 85% of the city flooded.


I am saying this, General Custer:


I’m glad you recognize famous US Generals.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Well, if anyone here has a teleporting machine to get the National Guard from other states down there instantaneously I’m sure we would all appreciate it very much. What no such machine exists? I could have sworn that from the way you guys were talking there had to be some out there.

Anyway, it takes time to mobilize, equip and transport the troops, to the area. Then you have to set up what they are going to do and how to get to certain areas with 85% of the city flooded.



I can drive from DC to LA in less time....Moreover, this wasn't a surprise "attack". We knew at least 24 hrs before landlfall that NO would be a direct hit. We knew within 24 hrs after landfall the scale of this event....Is this the state of our military readiness????? Are YOU satisfied with the answers you give?


[edit on 1-9-2005 by loam]



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 07:58 PM
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No I am not 100% satisfied with the response, but I think I understand the enormity of the event and the difficulty of this situation. I am willing to cut them some slack while they work to get more people down there. We can do drills all we want but until something major like this happens you never know how you would respond, and so far its not perfect but they're working as hard as they can.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 08:00 PM
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Please take a look at this picture an explain how you plan to drive in there?




posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 08:05 PM
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American People are in trouble and the National Guard trying to help them. 'Cause of the conditions such as flooding and really no where to land.

This is a terrible situation, simply real bad. I can add nothing only my prayers and a little donation.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 08:15 PM
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Apparently many of the National Guards are currently serving in Iraq

Something like 3,000 out of La's 11,000 National guardsmen are in iraq. Thats not much of a difference.

Maybe the US can abandon those bases in south korea and germany and japan. That'd be good for everyone right? Oh, no, wait, it wouldn't.


Are you sure that the Military can handle all the Tasks the Goverment is giving them?

The United States is not going to give up on foreign threats for fear of being 'spread thin' at home.


loam
Really? What are they doing? Eating dough-nuts??

Please explain the activation process for national guardsmen, for active duty of indeterminate length, both in their home state and in other states.

a terror attack on a similar scale will be met with the same languid response!

It definitly would.

truthcanhurt
What if the 1000's of National Guard troops we keep hearing about
don't really even exist?

Please demonstrate that they don't. Fact is they do. They aren't people's grandpas, there are standards for admittance and activation.

Where are these
guys and how long is it going to take them to get there?

Short of havving massed barracks in every town and city, with soldiers on permanent activation, there will allways be delays on teh scales of days. New Orleans has to deal with the problem on its own for the time being.

I can drive from DC to LA in less time

Great, when can the releif volunteers expect you to show up? Around noonish? Do you think that there might be something of a process that goes into their activation? Its not like a beeper goes off and they jump inot their car, putting a National Guardsman siren atop it and speed off.

We knew at least 24 hrs before landlfall that NO would be a direct hit

Yes, it was idiotic, massively idiotic at every level, from the citizens who stayed all the way up to the president himself. Very, very, very stupid of everyone invovled. Now the price of stupidity is being paid. Agreed.

Are YOU satisfied with the answers you give?

Your suggestion is to do what? A different president would've activated the guardsmen sooner? Can't we just replace the citizens with better and smarter citizens, ones who would've left the city long before this slow moving monster storm hit?

[edit on 1-9-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043


Right now here in GA the Red Cross is asking for volunteers to go down to Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi to help and they are offering training.

If we are asking civilians for help will this, does that mean that we are short of trained manpower from our national guard?

I wonder.


Odd most stories I have read are telling people to stay away and just send money and supplies because they do not have facilities to handle the victims yet alone workers. In fact they are as I understand going to put up some rescue personnel on Cruise ships for just that reason.

I can understand the Red Cross might need help but it is not the kind of help you think it is. I am sure their purpose is to coordinate the distribution of supplies which is not the same



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

loam
Really? What are they doing? Eating dough-nuts??

Please explain the activation process for national guardsmen, for active duty of indeterminate length, both in their home state and in other states.


Again, we understood well in advance the potential scale of this event. To suggest some bureaucratic guard activation process is acceptable makes little sense. Moreover, I assert this is not really about the guard, but about a lack of federal leadership. 24 hrs after landfall, where was the US military? Yeah, yeah....unprecedented.....but so was this storm. Now they are being brought in by naval ship...Again, where are the military transport planes dropping personnel and supplies? Aren't they trained for circumstances far dire than these??



a terror attack on a similar scale will be met with the same languid response!

It definitly would.


I'm glad you agree, and I assume further that you find that utterly unacceptable.



Where are these
guys and how long is it going to take them to get there?

Short of havving massed barracks in every town and city, with soldiers on permanent activation, there will allways be delays on teh scales of days. New Orleans has to deal with the problem on its own for the time being.


Then the pentagon's hype concerning military readiness is pure fantasy.....HOGWASH! This is all about lack of leadership.



I can drive from DC to LA in less time

Great, when can the releif volunteers expect you to show up?


Oh, yes. Ignore the point. We have the media crawling all over the city, but not law enforcement, the guard, or the military for days. Moreover, THIS IS THEIR JOB. It is where a substantial amount of our tax dollars go. They are trained for this, and in part, exist for this purpose. Finally, I have nothing to be concerned about in terms of my personal response to this situation. I am fairly confident that my financial contribution to the red cross was not inconsequential. I have responsibilities to my family, business and employees. I am not merely quarterbacking from the couch, I am exercising my right to question the response and decision making of our political leadership and hold them accountable for the same. This event affects everyone's interest in this country.



Around noonish? Do you think that there might be something of a process that goes into their activation? Its not like a beeper goes off and they jump inot their car, putting a National Guardsman siren atop it and speed off.


If that is the best we can do in terms of military readiness, then we are pathetically vulnerable as a nation and "homeland security" is a much greater farce than even I am prepared to say.



We knew at least 24 hrs before landlfall that NO would be a direct hit

Yes, it was idiotic, massively idiotic at every level, from the citizens who stayed all the way up to the president himself. Very, very, very stupid of everyone invovled. Now the price of stupidity is being paid. Agreed.


On this, at least we agree....I think.




Are YOU satisfied with the answers you give?

Your suggestion is to do what? A different president would've activated the guardsmen sooner? Can't we just replace the citizens with better and smarter citizens, ones who would've left the city long before this slow moving monster storm hit?


Not everyone is fortunate enough to be born with intelligence, financial resources or opportunity. To ignore this reality plays dangerously close to the ideology of many historical genocidal tyrants who would heartily agree with your very words.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 10:57 PM
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The states that have National Guard units deployed to Iraq have on average 60% of their units STILL in state. How exactly do you expect them to get to the places they need to be in no time flat? Boston Whaler? National Guard units don't have things like LCACs and Amphibious vehicles to use during times of flooding. Would you rather have helicopters flying around rescuing people, or ferrying troops around? Besides which a UH60 Blackhawk carries 13 soldiers. You would need a lot of them to get any number of troops on the ground in significant numbers to defend themselves from the animals that are shooting at people trying to rescue them.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by loam
If any of these numbers are true....where are they???? Why are the reporters not seeing them? And why did it take nearly 4 days to deploy them??? I'd point out that much of the language even acknowledges that there are not there YET, but are on their way??? Really? What are they doing? Eating dough-nuts?? Is this the type of speedy response anyone envisions for a disaster on this scale?

If anyone tells me this is about logistics, then fess up to the realization that a terror attack on a similar scale will be met with the same languid response!

[edit on 1-9-2005 by loam]


[Air] National Guardsman here! Awaiting orders and ready to deploy. In the mean time; I'm not a big fan of dough-nuts. I am currently mowing a big steak, drinking wine, and chatting with you pukes!!





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