It's begun, hasn't it?

Originally posted by dgtempe
First Bush convinced the House to cut $20 million out of $37 million that was supposed to go to Louisiana's coastal restoration and flood control. Then, to add insult to injury, we read in The Times-Picayune that Bush is against giving coastal states up to $500 million a year out of royalties from oil and gas drilling off our coasts. Coastal states generate more than a quarter of the oil and gas consumed by the United States, but Bush opposes the Senate's plan to share that income.

Whats left to say?

At the risk of sounding, well, nuts, i'll go out on a limb here and state i beleive those levees were taken down on purpose

For posterity I just had to quote DG, and hope that there is a link to his/her sources, also to see if he/she is clairvoyant and the levees were taken down intentionally..... (desperately searching for Bush's bullying of the House and by the way he must have bullied the Senate as they would have to sign off on the bill themselves......)

( I'll leave the searching for evidence of the intentional levee break to the clairvoyant...)

Originally posted by sebatwerk
You just can't drop the stupid masonic conspiracy theories, can you? I would never have expected the moderator of a site that claims to 'deny ignorance' to insist on fostering and incubating conspiracy theories (effectively fostering and incubating rumors, heresay and assumption), rather than getting to the very bottom of them, whatever it may be.

[edit on 5-9-2005 by sebatwerk]

No, I can drop anything I darn-well please, it is just you who off-handedly dismisses something with, from what I've seen, no information other than your own cynicism.
Actually, I wasn't referring to any Masonic conspiracy, only your very clearly stated activity and defense of the Masonic society; past, present and, presumably, future.
Speaking of handshakes, have you about got the "Triple Lindey" Secret shake down pat? I hear when you get that one down, you'll get to kiss the ring of Lucifer, or something.

Seriously, back on point, I've read the writings of some very good people, and I have looked around the world and I have seen come to pass what people spoke of thirty freakin' years ago, so don't give me any crap about denying ignorance, pal. People have been realizing what was going on back when you weren't even half of the material it takes to make a zygote, much less when you were making technicolor messes in your Pampers. The fact that you dismiss Conspiracy thoughts so off-handedly is what shoots you straight in the foot.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
No, I can drop anything I darn-well please, it is just you who off-handedly dismisses something with, from what I've seen, no information other than your own cynicism.

And can you tell me specifically WHAT exactly it is that I dismissed? The fact of the matter is that I didn't dismiss anything, simply made an observation of the conspiracy theories that I am familiar with.

Actually, I wasn't referring to any Masonic conspiracy, only your very clearly stated activity and defense of the Masonic society; past, present and, presumably, future.

And again, the only way that I have ever defended the masonic fraternity is by debunking the conspiracy theories which are obviously very very false. This can be considered as defending Freemasonry, defending truth or defending justice. Take your pick.

As a matter of fact (and I have stated this MANY times), there are LOTS of things wrong with Freemasonry, and I would not defend Freemasonry against those things because they are TRUE. But they are nothing like the things that some people claim about the Craft.

Speaking of handshakes, have you about got the "Triple Lindey" Secret shake down pat? I hear when you get that one down, you'll get to kiss the ring of Lucifer, or something.

:shk:

Seriously, back on point, I've read the writings of some very good people, and I have looked around the world and I have seen come to pass what people spoke of thirty freakin' years ago, so don't give me any crap about denying ignorance, pal.

I was only referring to your own post stating that conspiracy theory should be discussed on this forum, and not debunked.

Of course you believe that said conspiracy theories (particularly against Freemasonry) ARE the truth, but the fact that YOU dismiss the efforts of a group of Freemasons to show people that their organization is nothing like what they believe makes YOU the one quickly dismissing information. Like with many conspiracy theorists, this seems to come from a desire to believe in the theories (much like you state that masons have a desire to believe that the anti-masonic theories are not true).

The fact that you dismiss Conspiracy thoughts so off-handedly is what shoots you straight in the foot.

Again, I have not dismissed anything, only made an observation. I wouldn't dismiss ANY piece of information that has solid support.

Sebatwerk,

I get what you are saying, but maybe you can look at unlikely conspiracy theories a little differently.

1.) Don’t term it a conspiracy theory if it has not been tested and shown to be true in your point of view. Call it a conspiracy hypothesis if you see a ‘theory’ as only speculation which is much more in line with the scientific root of these words. Also, in line with the scientific method, realize that you have to build a theory on a hypothesis. Sure, science has been wrong for centuries and hypotheses are not always right, but you can’t progress without all the steps and speculation. Same here.

2.) Realize that not everything fits everyone, and realize the efficiency of division of labor There are plenty of people working on other political issues. A small contingent of people do this whole conspiracy or alternative explanation deal. I don’t see this as bad. Some conspiracy talk (hypothesizing) is not necessarily going to distract from anything including other political, social or moral issues.

3.) People aren’t as effective sometimes when they take the beaten path. Some people have done some truly great things doing some highly crazy things. You know, things that people haven’t thought of, things that was once a joke and now is mainstream. In Business, making a new product is more risky(less likely to be successful) than rehashing some old idea or product type, but the pay off can be much greater. Apply that to these unlikely conspiracy hypotheses. Do you wear a helmet on a bike? How likely is it that you are going to be right with putting that helmet on and actually have it save your life? 1 in a million, yet it is useful because despite odds, the occurrences in which it is helpful, it is extremely helpful. What if the NWO is trying to take over the world, unlikely yet talk of what they are doing may make them get nervous and delay and delay and hopefully fail.

4.)What is done here is very similar to what the news journalists do. They gather facts, make observations, and derive information from that. In your opinion, they just do that horribly or more horribly then your other sources that you trust more. Why don't you try to make them do it a little better, instead of trying to make them stop altogether?

Originally posted by kilendrial
4.)What is done here is very similar to what the news journalists do. They gather facts, make observations, and derive information from that. In your opinion, they just do that horribly or more horribly then your other sources that you trust more. Why don't you try to make them do it a little better, instead of trying to make them stop altogether?

I completely agree with everything you have thus far stated in your last post, except this last issue.

I have NEVER tried to get conspiracy theorists, anti-masons, etc etc to STOP what they are doing. I have only tried getting them to stop making blind assumptions and to back up their statements with facts/evidence/proof. In other words, I have only tried getting them to follow the same scientific method that you described above.

And that is truly the only thing that really REALLY gets to me: when someone claims something as being a fact (ie: "masons are devil worshippers") without making any effort to show it as being a fact. This non-fact is then used as the basis for other theories and claims, and the conspiracy theory becomes one ugly animal based on nothing but someones careless confusion of an opinion for a fact.

I don't recall hearing of it, I heard the levees (or one) may need to be opened to relieve pressure or something

Its physically immpossible for water to melt the materials that make up the levies. Also notice that they haven't released any videos showing this storm 'smashing' the levees.

ufobeleiver
Yeah they did do a terrible job and I can see them using this to pass more laws for the "security" of america

They're not going to be able to justify an expansion of the budgets of fema or DHS or an expansion of their scope and power after a complete and utter failure like this.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Its physically immpossible for water to melt the materials that make up the levies. Also notice that they haven't released any videos showing this storm 'smashing' the levees.

Kind of hard to get a video during a Cat 4/5, even if the camera's running on batteries....

Just saying.

Originally posted by Nygdan
They're not going to be able to justify an expansion of the budgets of fema or DHS or an expansion of their scope and power after a complete and utter failure like this.

80% of America are sheep and will be begging them to increase funds to organizations such as FEMA so that another disaster like this won't happen again.



[edit on 7-9-2005 by UFObeliever]

No. This is not the beginning.Most of the pieces were in place a while ago.

This is the end stage.

Its physically immpossible for water to melt the materials that make up the levies.

What about extremely hot water? Water can get up to 2000 degrees Celsius before decomposition. Did you know that industry uses water to cut through steel, aluminum etc. It all depends on the speed. A comet commonly referred to as a dirty snowball (although, calling them icy has come under speculation recently) could possibly destroy the planet let alone these levees.

Also notice that they haven't released any videos showing this storm 'smashing' the levees.

I wouldn't be too sure that something doesn't exist. To say that something doesn't exist, you have to have all knowledge and humans don't have that, if anything or anybody else. Farther, you can't even know you have full knowledge even with full knowledge as your nature could be limiting some data or thing from your perspective.

They're not going to be able to justify an expansion of the budgets of fema or DHS or an expansion of their scope and power after a complete and utter failure like this.

I say they will be able to. I did a calculation a little back adding up all the coast guard boats and helicopters in the U.S., all the utility helicopters owned by the military, forestry vehicles, reasonable private vehicles and state owned vehicles in and around New Orleans and estimated that with those 1/4 those resources (can't possible gather every vehicle listed), it would take 8 days for evacuation of 75,000 people to take place (estimates for people who stayed in New Orleans have been between 50,000 to 100,000). If they had more, who knows what they could do and the administration if they want more money for DHS or FEMA can point this out.

Kind of hard to get a video during a Cat 4/5, even if the camera's running on batteries....

You are completely right and if I was going to go off on speculation, this media-black out effect could be a reason for weather control as well as unleashing WMD-type weapons stealthily.

A category 5 hurricane starts at 155 mph winds. Go out on a race track and then stick your head out the window at this speed. It wouldn't be fun for news crews just as this wouldn't be fun for you. They could set one up remotely, but people might not have thought of filming the levees or have the resources to do it plus everything else they wanted to do in and out of New Orleans or the Hurricane strike zone. Of course, there is always the problem of having the tripod tip over, so you would have to bolt it to something like a roof. Ohh wait! Roofs have been known to come off in hurricanes. This storm wouldn't be worth me risking 100s of remote cameras at thousands of dollars a piece to get film footage if I was a news organization. It would only benefit me by getting more footage than I can possibly get on the T.V. in months of straight broadcasting if I caught bigfoot on film in his native habitat, caring for young, climbing trees, mating, and making tools.

Originally posted by Amethyst
Kind of hard to get a video during a Cat 4/5, even if the camera's running on batteries....

Oh they have the video, and it clearly shows the global hawk hitting the levy, they're just surpressing it. You can tell it wasn't a swirling hurricane that hit the levy because the levy isn't in a big swirled pile.

A comet commonly referred to as a dirty snowball (although, calling them icy has come under speculation recently) could possibly destroy the planet let alone these levees.

Since there is no impact crater, this only leaves us with the Global Hawk guided missile option.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Amethyst
Kind of hard to get a video during a Cat 4/5, even if the camera's running on batteries....

Oh they have the video, and it clearly shows the global hawk hitting the levy, they're just surpressing it. You can tell it wasn't a swirling hurricane that hit the levy because the levy isn't in a big swirled pile.

...Since there is no impact crater, this only leaves us with the Global Hawk guided missile option.

Nygdan? Are you funnin' here?

Do you have any kind of documentation?

how about the predictions of Bush being involved in a scandal..followed by a new female president (Hilary Clinton?)..and thats when the nwo act would really take off.. with Bush gone it may relieve people too much and lose awareness of what would be going on after that?

could that scandal revolve around the katrina situation..well it's looking like it but I suppose we'll just find out

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Amethyst
Kind of hard to get a video during a Cat 4/5, even if the camera's running on batteries....

Oh they have the video, and it clearly shows the global hawk hitting the levy, they're just surpressing it. You can tell it wasn't a swirling hurricane that hit the levy because the levy isn't in a big swirled pile.

In the last day or so I was reading that the levees broke AFTER Katrina had gone through. So my bad.

I was basing my post on if the levees had broken during the storm, not after.

Oh they used the cover of the storm alright, it messed up the radar and masked the heatsignature of the global hawk guided missiles. Standard stuff.

Originally posted by soficrow
Do you have any kind of documentation?

www.google.com...

Over 17k results.


DEAR GOD, i can see from the top result that there is just such a conspiracy. And here I thought i had made up something that was whacky enough to be completely obvious.


Anyway, more people would realize what was really going on it the flood waters hadn't washed away the unusual crop circles that had been appearing in new orleans prior to the disaster. And are we supposed to beleive that its just a coincidence that the hurricane just happened to have an immpossible to replicate swirling pattern, just like some of those crop circles????