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Well, It Is Official: The Hurricane Was Bush's Fault

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posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
All the imaginative spin in the world cannot hide the fact that the Bush Administration chose to not spend money in an area that was known to need it. This choice has most likely resulted in thousands of deaths and billions more dollars.

Would the levies have broken anyway, even if strengthened as they should have been? Maybe. It's for sure they broke without that work. Work that was not done because the Bush Administration, supported by the Republican-dominated rubber stamp Congress, chose to spend the money on war instead.

Speculation about what would have happened in other situations are fine. But these inconvenient facts will keep coming around.


Please take a moment to read the below "imaginative spin" before continuing to try categorizing matters of "speculation" under "inconvenient facts," as you have in your initial post to this topic:


"I'm not saying that this would not have occurred in New Orleans in this situation," Parker told The Associated Press. "I am saying that there would have been less flooding if all the projects had been funded."

A senior Corps commander discounted the notion the disaster could have been averted by full funding of projects such as new and beefed up levees to protect against hurricane surges from Lake Pontchartrain and improving pumping and drainage capacity in New Orleans.

"These (projects) were not funded at the full ability of the Corps of Engineers to execute the project," said Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, commander of the Army Corps of Engineers. "But the important question is, 'Would that have made a difference?' And my assessment is, no, it would not."


The only thing the funding might have done is helped with a quicker pumping of the floodwaters.

Anyhow, as par for those seeking to blame Bush, was the below mentions purposely overlooked in that laying of Bush-blame, as well?


Other presidents also have taken aim at the Corps' budget. President Carters' first veto came against a big water projects bill passed by a Democratic-dominated Congress. And President Clinton squeezed the Corps budget as well. Doing so frees money for other White House priorities.

"I fought every ... administration when they tried to use the Corps of Engineers as a piggy bank to pay for other projects," said former House Appropriations Committee Chairman Bob Livingston, a Louisiana Republican who represented the New Orleans suburbs for more than 20 years. "I had major battles with the Clinton administration."

"Going back to Carter. They've all sought to draw down the Corps of Engineers and put it elsewhere," he said.

Former Louisiana Sen. John Breaux (news, bio, voting record), a Democrat, said it was clear during his time in Congress that flood control projects were shortchanged.


Perhaps the above mentions were more "imaginative spin"?
How about this below mention. Would it also fall under that classification, too?


"Those levees are OK under normal times but once every hundred years, that's not enough," he said in an interview. "We've all said for years that a category 4 or 5 hurricane hit just right on New Orleans, there was nothing there sufficient to prevent New Orleans from being 20 feet under water."

White House Backpedals on Flood Control

:shk:





seekerof

[edit on 1-9-2005 by Seekerof]




posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 08:03 PM
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I just can't believe the blame game was so short in coming. We have a national tragidy on our hands, and all some people want to do about it is gain political favor. It's really disheartening. There are two options -- let them go on and stay focused on what we should be focused on, helping those who are in desperate need while the blamers take the silence for consent and agreement, getting more and more shrill, or do we have to divert part of our effort to combating this low, sleezy attack. It's kind of like what law enforcement is going through in New Orleans right now, they had to move desperatly needed eyes and ears from the search and rescue effort because some scumballs are turning New Orleans into a war zone, shooting at cops and stealing anything that's not nailed down. They're stealing that, too, when they can find a hammer or crowbar to steal to help em steal.

By the was, this frickin' fly keeps buzzing around my monitor, and won't leave me alone. Thanks, Bush, for the fly problem. Thanks a lot!



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 08:21 PM
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I just don't think right now is the time to be looking to blame people for this.


I was very disappointed in all Canadian opposition parties last night. I was trying to find more info on what we were going to do to help out, and in every story was the opposition saying "You didn't offer enough/the right thing/soon enough".

I say, let's get these people to safe dry land, feed, clothe and house them and make sure they get the medical attention they need. We can worry about who's/what's to blame after. That's just my opinion, though.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
I suppose that all of you are advocates for rebuilding New Orleans in the very same hole it was built in, costing mega-billions to do, so that New Orleans can then be hit again and re-flooded and re-destroyed?


Actually, I can't speak for anyone else, but I have serious reservations about building the city in the same place again and have said so in other conversations. I have questioned the judgment of building a city below sea level right on the coast in the first place.

And I would never have said anything about Bush's part in all this if I hadn't seen this thread making apologies for him right off the bat and demonizing Cindy Sheehan for speaking the truth once again.

I didn't assign blame to Bush. I didn't have to. I just agree.

As far as Clinton and Carter go, you probably have a valid point. I'm not defending them. However, this thread was defending Bush from the evil Ms. Sheehan and her ridiculous accusations. I'm just pointing out that they're not ridiculous at all. If you want to talk about what Clinton and Carter did or didn't do, how about another thread?


[edit on 1-9-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 08:33 PM
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Jeeze, Cindy Sheehan has become the new Jew. You can't say anything against her without immediately demonizing her. I guess this makes me an Anti-Sheeite because I equate her with Michael Moore. Because I see her using first her son's death and now another terrible tragedy to capitolize on a political message. Well, I guess I'm proud to be an anti-Sheeite. Her loss is terrible, but it doesn't give her carte blanch to say whatever the heck she wants without any kind of rebuttal. Her grace period, at least from me, ended today.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by Duzey
I just don't think right now is the time to be looking to blame people for this.


I was very disappointed in all Canadian opposition parties last night. I was trying to find more info on what we were going to do to help out, and in every story was the opposition saying "You didn't offer enough/the right thing/soon enough".

I say, let's get these people to safe dry land, feed, clothe and house them and make sure they get the medical attention they need. We can worry about who's/what's to blame after. That's just my opinion, though.



I was going to say that, but You did first..!
It's a good, no GREAT, opinion..
We can fight about this later..
Help those poor people first..

BTW ...Way above for Duzey...



posted on Sep, 2 2005 @ 03:45 AM
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Well I have seen countless europen bashing threads concerning the "econmic woes of europe." Americans need to take a good hard look at themselvs in the mirror , after all they live in a first world country where the country had full warning of a coming disater and yet thousands of people were left stranded.
Look after your own backyard first before worrying about what happens over the fence.

You cant blame Bush for a natuarl disater after all he isnt god.



posted on Sep, 2 2005 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by junglejake
I just can't believe the blame game was so short in coming. We have a national tragidy on our hands, and all some people want to do about it is gain political favor. It's really disheartening. There are two options -- let them go on and stay focused on what we should be focused on, helping those who are in desperate need while the blamers take the silence for consent and agreement, getting more and more shrill, or do we have to divert part of our effort to combating this low, sleezy attack.


We heard alot of your ilk around here in Sept. 4 years ago too - those so "rattled" by the humanity of it all over here while they were over where ever they were, safe. Many of us, after our eyeballs felt like they were going to crack & the migraines subsided enough to ask "why", just took the most rudimentary of logical questions and ran them up the flagpole. Guess what? The official answers that came back are all puff/diversion/contrary to logic to this day, with the biggest personal afront to me being the "co-testimony" of Bush/Cheney being unfilmed, unrecorded and unwritten, in a sealed room in front of a politically appointed "commission". That, to me, was not dancing on graves, but a full steaming fecal dump on the chest after they dug 'em up and opened the coffins.
After that, as any reasonable person might hope, I thought Americans would be more in-tune to "cause & effect", more receptive in latching onto disception techniques, more keen to get the obvious bad moves opposed before the "effect" occurs.

Obviously, I was wrong.

Now, another disaster has occured that has very real deep rooted connections to the horrendous decisions of Team Bush in that "cause & effect" model; something occurring that, while nobody blames the inability to account for "free radicals" ( "terrorists" and nature), could have been tremendously lessened in severity or staved off all together. Claiming "speculation" to the above is rendered moot by the all to obvious & documented negligence of action/inaction & funding.


Here's the science, which was reported on by feds & independents, that preceeded the budget cuts:
- increasingly more severe hurricane seasons, with this season projected to be very bad
- increasing rapid erosion in the Gulf of Mexico
- a hasented sinking of the city levee system

HERE IS the "cause":


Because of the proposed cuts, the Corps office there imposed a hiring freeze. Officials said that money targeted for the SELA project -- $10.4 million, down from $36.5 million -- was not enough to start any new jobs.


"The Louisiana congressional delegation urged Congress earlier this year to dedicate a stream of federal money to Louisiana's coast, only to be opposed by the White House. ... In its budget, the Bush administration proposed a significant reduction in funding for southeast Louisiana's chief hurricane protection project. Bush proposed $10.4 million, a sixth of what local officials say they need."


Where does it make rational sense to ANY OF YOU, when as a leader you're making decisions to protect one of America's flagship citys, to slash the very funding of said protection by 71.5% & 83%, when your own governments experts are the ones making the loudest call for their necessity!?!?!

It's 9/11/01 all over again.

- Avoidable loss of life & misery are legislated into being
- Diversion as an outcome is stellar ( who will talk of Rove and treason, a $Billion per week in Iraq, perjury, $75 MILLION bribes to factions for signing meaningless Constitutions in the desert instead of levee building in America, half to 2/3 of the country distrusting the president & thinking his job skills suck)
- Bush Apologists, Syncophants and Delusionals dismissing the obvious blame vociferously, "shaming" people for not focusing on the tradegy and swallowing all that their "teams" brian trust uses as deflection, especially the wearing of the sac cloth and teary eyed walks amongst the devastation that they engendered.



Seek, I see you've got the cheerleader tights back on & joined us here on the field once more.......speaking of Clinton/Carter: I'd LOVE to see where they cut funding in 70% & 80% chunks out of Louisiana's hide!?!



posted on Sep, 2 2005 @ 09:10 AM
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Interestingly I heard John Fund from the Wall Street Journal this morning on C-Span defending Bush, saying we should not rush to blame, it doesn't do any good, there'll be plenty of time for that. Which is true. But he also said that after 9/11, you didn't see people trying to blame other people, we just all came together and were one nation...


I don't know about you all, but I distinctly remember (I believe it was on 9/11) ALL the blame went to Osama Bin Laden and his band of hijackers. I remember their pictures on my TV screen a good part of the day. I remember serious blame taking place immediately and for weeks, so I'm not sure what Fund is talking about. Maybe just that we didn't blame someone he supports...

I also picked up frequent use of a few of the phrases we're going to be hearing over the next few weeks as to the reasons people are continuing to die and not be rescued. Look for "the city is a bowl", "unusual geography". "snipers shooting at helicopters" (does anyone know how many times that happened?) and "looters".

Blog from Within NOLA



posted on Sep, 2 2005 @ 10:22 AM
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Well, thankfully a lot of people are agreeing that, while there may have been a major national guard screw up in New Orleans, now is the time to figure out how to correct it. There will be plenty of time for political fall out and finger pointing after these people are taken out of their moment of need. So blame all you want, call those that disagree with you the most ironic phrase, political hack, and bash your opposition party. It does wonders for mine.

I suspect that, if Bush continues along this pseudo-leadership role, you're going to have a very hard time legitimately calling me a political hack. I doubt that will stop you, though. Happy anger, my aunt just got in from New Orleans and I'm going to see if there's a way to get down there for the Labor Day weekend.

Squabble amongst yourselves.



posted on Sep, 2 2005 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by Bout Time
- Bush Apologists, Syncophants and Delusionals dismissing the obvious blame vociferously, "shaming" people for not focusing on the tradegy and swallowing all that their "teams" brian trust uses as deflection, especially the wearing of the sac cloth and teary eyed walks amongst the devastation that they engendered.

While I am obviously not included in the 'Go Bush!' team, I still find it in rather poor taste to go on about this while there are still people on the ground who need help.

Yes, I think this is being poorly managed. Yes, I think there were/are some tragic errors in judgement here; but at this point in time, I am trying to concentrate on how the problem can be fixed, instead of how it got that way.

And any politician in my country, no matter what party they belong to, who uses this to make points against the 'other team' will be viewed with disgust by me.



posted on Sep, 2 2005 @ 01:57 PM
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Proof of Bush taking money from New Orleans/Lousianna

www.pnionline.com...
www.alertnet.org...
www.editorandpublisher.com...
www.findarticles.com...
www.whatreallyhappened.com...
mydd.com...
www.bushwatch.com...
www.salon.com...
www.commondreams.org...
www.craigslist.org...
www.swingstateproject.com...
homepage.mac.com...

It was his fault, sorry, but it was. If only people weren't so brainwashed as to think there are only two choices in an election. Of course Bush was the guy who banned Badnariks name from Fox News, and when someone did say it the show he said it on was stopped and a repeat was played.



posted on Sep, 2 2005 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by Jestaman
It was his fault, sorry, but it was.


Click on my warn.



posted on Sep, 2 2005 @ 07:18 PM
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The only part of this whole disaster that I blame on our current administration is the slow response that the survivors have been recieving. Everything that lead up to the current situation is a topic that should take place at a later date. The thing is we knew that the hurricane was coming, and we knew within at least 2 days how bad it was going to be, and studies had shown what could happen if a hurricane of cat 3, 4, or 5 could do to the city. Knowing how bad the devastation could be, our government should have been more prepared to deal with the coming tragedy and had help ready to send in after the hurricane had passed and the levies broke. It's called strategic planning. You see what could possibly take place and you make plans for all posible outcomes; and make sure that you can inact those plans. Had they planned better they could have had help in there the first, second or third day instead of the fifth.



posted on Sep, 2 2005 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
I just can't believe the blame game was so short in coming. We have a national tragidy on our hands, and all some people want to do about it is gain political favor. It's really disheartening.


And you started a slugfest topic on it for.... goodwill and peace on earth?


I'm kind of sick of all the anti-hurricane traitors myself Jake. If they don't like hurricane's they should move to France and take the anti-hurricane media with them, but you catch what you fish for my friend. And that's true no matter where you make your stand.



posted on Sep, 2 2005 @ 09:32 PM
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It is someone's fault, Bush's. Who's fault was 9/11? Bush. Who's fault was it NK got nukes? Bush. Who's fault was it the first attack on WTC? Clinton. Know why? They were in charge at the time. If they hadn't been then it would be somone else's fault, but it wasn't, so it is their fault!

So sad how many people act like "Gee, he is in power, he cut millions from the solution, he did everything but bomb the place to make it worse, it's someone else's fault." It is Bush's fault, if Gore hadn't had the election stolen in 00 and had also cut quarter billion from the projects that would have save NO to give it to Haliburton then it would be Gore's fault, be he didn't, so it is Bush's fault.



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Jeeze, Cindy Sheehan has become the new Jew. You can't say anything against her without immediately demonizing her.



I thought it was quite the opposite. Everytime someone around here talks about her, all they do is demonize her.
Is this the I can dish it out but I can't take it type thing?



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