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Government Coverup of UFOs - Proven?

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posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 11:07 AM
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Government Coverup of UFOs…Proven?

The evidence for it is extensive actually. The government’s own documents show that the official policy for dealing with the subject is denial and establishing ridicule, even when cases clearly indicate a threat to national security (whatever their origin). So, are these “alleged” documents, forged by some UFO nut or unscrupulous author? Nope. They are official documents, publicly available.

The Robertson Panel

The Robertson Panel, as it came to be known, was a committee created by the CIA in 1952, largely to address the problem of two incidents of UFOs buzzing Washington DC.

They finally drafted a report, sometimes called the Durant Report (after the Panel secretary), in January of 1953. To clarify, the Robertson Panel Report is actually within the Durant Report (it is specifically the part dealing with the recommendations of the panel, whereas the full Durant Report contains notes for each meeting).

The full text of the Durant Report can be found here: www.cufon.org...

Let’s look at some of their recommendations:



EDUCATIONAL PROGRAM

The Panel's concept of a broad educational program integrating efforts of all concerned agencies was that it should have two major aims: training and "debunking."




The "debunking" aim would result in reduction in public interest in "flying saucers" which today evokes a strong psychological reaction. This education could be accomplished by mass media such as television, motion pictures, and popular articles. Basis of such education would be actual case histories which had been puzzling at first but later explained. As in the case of conjuring tricks, there is much less stimulation if the "secret" is known.


It should be noted, that two Bluebook members, Ruppelt and Hyneck, were part of this panel, and later became respected UFOlogists. So, we’ve got the US government plainly stating that they plan to use mass media to manipulate public interest in the subject. But…did they ever carry it out? Yes, they did.

Sociologist Michael Swords discovered a letter (from 1966, so 13 years after the panel) in the Smithsonian Archives by a Dr. Thornton Page (a Robertson Panel member) to the Panel secretary, Durant, stating that Page "helped organized the CBS TV show around the Robertson Panel conclusions." That same year, Walter Cronkite, a respected journalist narrated a CBS tv UFO special, “UFO’s: Friend, Foe, or Fantasy” (which emphasized the “fantasy” option). So, there is suggestive evidence showing that the panel’s recommendations (and members) were still actively involved in such actions even 13 years after the panel! The parallel to the recent Peter Jennings special is interesting to say the least, in light of such reflection.

CUFON (Computer UFO Network) corresponded with Dr. Page, it should prove interesting:



Perhaps the most telling statement in any of the material comes from Dr. page's reply to our first letter. In describing what the Panel was tasked with, Dr. Page states:

"H.P. Robertson told us in the first private (no outsiders) session that our job was to reduce public concern, and show that UFO reports could be explained by conventional reasoning." [1]

This instruction was given to the Panel members before any evidence was presented. This would seem to be a "smoking gun" as it were, since by Dr. Page's own words, the purpose of the Panel was not to investigate or to evaluate. Dr. Page contrasts this statement of purpose with the presentations given to the Panel:

"We were "briefed" by "experts" (several of the CIA agents not too expert on astronomy, optics, or radar) Their goal seemed to be to convince us that UFOs are real and may be a hazard to the U.S." [1]

www.ufoevidence.org...



The Jam Handy Co. which made World War II training films (motion picture and slide strips) was also suggested, as well as Walt Disney, Inc. animated cartoons. Dr. Hynek suggested that the amateur astronomers in the U.S. might be a potential source of enthusiastic talent "to spread the gospel." It was believed that business clubs, high schools, colleges, and television stations would all be pleased to cooperate in the showing of documentary type motion pictures if prepared in an interesting manner. The use of true cases showing first the "mystery" and then the "explanation" would be forceful.


Interestingly enough, from Disney, starting in 1955, we see documentaries involving space flight and possible alien life. Disney animator Ward Kimball was also an amateur UFOlogist.


Ward Kimball and Walt Disney



The discussions between the CIA people and Disney may actually have taken place, because in August 1955, Frederick C. Durant III, who was a member of the Robertson CIA panel, showed Walt Kimball's documentary "Man in Space" during the Sixth Congress of the International Astronomical Federation in Copenhagen.

Prior to the request for a UFO documentary by the defense department, Disney had shown a capacity to cooperate with the government. His studio produced 80 armed forces shorts during WW 11. Films such as "Alice in Wonderland" (1951) and "Peter Pan" (1953) were put on hold while the Disney staff produced the numerous animated films, plus 1,200 insignia designs for military units. In one year, during the war, Disney turned out over four hundred thousand feet of government films.




Disney was also, according to a December 16, 1954 FBI document, made a SAC [Strategic Air Command] Contact for the FBI, which elevated him from his former position as an informant for the agency. Now he was able to gather information from other FBI informants. The confidential internal FBI memo read,

"Because of Mr. Disney’s position as the foremost producer of cartoon files in the motion picture industry, and his prominence and wide acquaintanceship in film production matters, it is believed that he can be of valuable assistance to this office . . . "

Once Walt Disney had finished his meetings with the USAF, he began to work on the requested UFO documentary for the public. He asked his animators to think up what an alien would look like. Meanwhile, he waited for the Air Force to deliver on the promised film.

After some period of time the Air Force re-contacted Disney and told him the film offer had to be withdrawn. There would be no UFO footage as promised. Kimball told researcher Stanton Friedman that once he found out there would be no delivery of UFO film, he personally spoke with an Air Force Colonel who told him, "there indeed was plenty of UFO footage, but that neither Ward, nor anyone else, was going to get access to it." This caused a temporary halt to Disney’s UFO documentary project. As one account by Bruce Maccabee described it,

" Disney cancelled the project, but by this time a lot of animated film of ‘creatures’ had been completed by his artists."

"So Disney went ahead and made a short "documentary" anyway, featuring Jonathan Winters impersonating various "characters" associated with typical UFO lore."

"I specifically recall Mr. Winters as an old lady/grandmother who saw a UFO and reported it... then he portrayed the Air Force officer who investigated the sightings and offered explanations. He also portrayed a little boy in a room who had a telescope looking up at the stars and, to the little boy's amazement, an alien came through the telescope into his room (I think I've got this right). Of course the boys father didn't believe that story."

The UFO documentary was never shown in public, but Kimball did show the 15-20 minute piece at the 1979 UFO Symposium. The documentary, however, did not contain any of the dramatic UFO footage everyone had been anticipating.

www.presidentialufo.com...

More from the Durant/Robertson Report….



UNOFFICIAL INVESTIGATING GROUPS

The Panel took cognizance of the existence of such groups as the "Civilian Flying Saucer Investigators" (Los Angeles) and the "Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (Wisconsin). It was believed that such organizations should be watched because of their potentially great influence on mass thinking if widespread sightings should occur. The apparent irresponsibility and the possible use of such groups for subversive purposes should be kept in mind.


Here we have members of government clearly stating that they may use certain UFO groups for subversive purposes! This is interesting, when one considers that Rear Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter was the first Director of the CIA (1947-1950), and then was later on the board of directors of the prestigious NICAP (National Investigation Committee on Aerial Phenomenon) UFO organization!

One also sees, when reading the report, that some cases were simply very compelling. The Tremonton case, for example, reported and filmed by a military witness. Ridiculous explanations were attempted; with Hyneck (then on the other side so to speak) and the panel eventually settling on “birds” as the official explanation (a claim he later states was simply a whitewash, upon becoming a UFOlogist..not to mention ridiculous to anyone viewing the footage). Both the Montana film and the Tremonton film were kept as “classified” after the Robertson Panel, by the way, and only declassified some years later.

Dr. Hynek:


"After one-thousand hours of analysis on the Utah film....the Navy photograph interpretation labs....concluded that what we saw was not birds, balloons, aircraft, or reflections, but that these were 'self-luminous' unidentified objects. In spite of this conclusion, the panel rejected the Navy's findings and decided that it must have been birds."

ufocasebook.com...

The concluding statement and recommendation of the Robertson Panel is also interesting…



We suggest that these aims may be achieved by an integrated program designed to reassure the public of the total lack of evidence of inimical forces behind the phenomenon, to train personnel to recognize and reject false indications quickly and effectively, and to strengthen regular channels for the evaluation of and prompt reaction to true indications of hostile measures.


So, tell the public its bunk, but let’s make sure we can react quickly if such things are hostile! This attitude is reflected in numerous other official documents, especially in the form of official memos, such as examples below: (all FOIA released documents, easiest viewing is at CUFON’s site www.cufon.org... and then go to Verified Documents. These could also be verified by visiting the CIA FOIA site, if one wished to, but their search option leaves much to be desired).

CIA Memo – To the Deputy Director/Intelligence from Ralph L. Clark, Acting Assistant Director, Scientific Intelligence. July 29, 1952, after the DC UFO incidents. It can easily be reasonably assumed that this memo refers to the establishment of the Robertson Panel.



In the past several weeks a number of radar and visual sightings of unidentified aerial objects have been reported. Although this office has maintained a continuing review of such reported sightings during the past three years, a special study group has been formed to review this subject to date. D/CI will participate in the study with D/SI and a report should be ready about 15 August.


Then we see the “keep the public in the dark, but study it in secret” attitude continue…

CIA Memo – To the Deputy Assistant Director/SI (Scientific Intelligence), August 1, 1952, from Edward Tauss.



3. It is recommended that CIA surveillance of subject matter, in coordination with proper authorities of primary operational concern at ATIC, be continued. It is strongly urged, however, that no indication of CIA interest or concern reach the press or public, in view of their probable alarmist tendencies to accept such interest as "confirmatory" of the soundness of "unpublished facts" in the hands of the U. S.


or yet another…

CIA Memo – To the Director of Central Intelligence, October 2, 1952, from H.M. Chadwell, Assistant Director, Scientific Intelligence.



3. CONCLUSIONS – "Flying saucers" pose two elements of danger which have national security implications. The first involves mass psychological considerations and the second concerns the vulnerability of the United States to air attack. Both factors are amplified in TAB A.

Next, we’ll see another government-approved (and fairly recent) document supporting the seriousness of the subject…

The Fire Officer’s Guide to Disaster Control 2nd Edition, Chapter 13
by William M. Kramer & Charles W. Bahme. Published by Fire Engineering Books & Videos,
Park 80 West, Plaza Two, 7th Floor, Saddle Brook NJ 07662. 1992

This is an official manual used by FEMA and Fire Fighters across the country. Here’s a link to the chapter (scroll down)… www.v-j-enterprises.com...

Some excerpts…



In addition, if the apparent visits by
alien beings and their space vehicles should pose any type of threat,
it will, as always, be the fire service that is called upon to
provide the first line of life-saving defense and disaster mitigation.




interest in UFOs was greatly heightened when Congress in 1969
adopted a law (14 CFR Ch. V Part 1211--Extraterrestrial Exposure)
which gave the NASA Administrator the arbitrary discretion to
quarantine under armed guard any object, person, or other form of
life which has been extraterrestrially exposed.


We’ll cover this one as well, later...



Now that we are in the 1990s it is doubtful that the UFO potential would be brushed off so lightly by our military security forces. This
change of attitude was evidenced as far back as December 24, 1959,
when the Inspector General of the Air Force issued the following
Operations and Training Order: "Unidentified Flying Objects--
sometimes treated lightly by the press and referred to as 'Flying
Saucers'--must be rapidly and accurately identified as serious Air
Force business...."




In view of the federal law (cited earlier) empowering NASA's
administrator to impound, without a hearing, anyone who touches a UFO
or its occupants. it would be inadvisable to make personal contact
unless you are willing to submit to NASA's quarantine requirements,
should the law be invoked.


So, all of the above is basically an intro to the subject (and treating it seriously) and the possible problems involved. However, in treating the subject seriously and by warning personnel of specific known phenomena that may be encountered with UFOs, we see that while the public stance is one of ridicule and no threat, within the government the threat is more of a reality.


Law on the books: 14 CFR Ch. V Part 1211—Extraterrestrial Exposure

Many skeptics have often claimed this law is strictly for biologics such as microbes, etc. However, some in the Pentagon have stated otherwise…



Dr. Brian T. Clifford of the Pentagon announced at a press conference ("The Star", New York, Oct. 5, 1982) that contact between U.S. citizens and extra-terrestrials or their vehicles is strictly illegal.

Sure, the Star isn’t the best source, but this was during a press conference, and can be confirmed.

One can read the law here: www.zerotime.com...

First, the definitions…



1211.102 - Definitions
a. "NASA" and the "Administrator" mean, respectively the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and the administrator of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration or his authorized representative.
b. "Extra-terrestrially exposed" means the state of condition of any person, property, animal or other form of life or matter whatever, who or which has:
1. Touched directly or come within the atmospheric envelope or any other celestial body
2. Touched directly or been in close proximity to (or been exposed indirectly to ) any person, property, animal or other form of life or matter who or which has been extra-terrestrially exposed by virtue of paragraph (b)(1) of this section. For example, if person or thing "A" touches the surface of the Moon, and on "A's" return to Earth, "B" touches "A" and, subsequently, "C" touches "B", all of these - "A" through "C" inclusive - would be extra-terrestrially exposed ("A" and "B" directly; "C" indirectly).
c. "Quarantine" means the detention, examination and decontamination of any persons, property, animal or other form of life or matter whatever that is extra-terrestrially exposed, and includes the apprehension or seizure of such person, property, animal or other form of life or matter whatever.
d. "Quarantine period" means a period of consecutive calendar days as may be established in accordance with 1211.104


The law gives NASA the ability to quarantine such persons. If they do not comply, they could be fined up to $5000 and/or up to one year in prison! Many have wondered if this law could be applied to US citizens coming into contact with alien beings or craft. Not exactly a “smoking gun” (like our next example), but again, just more to show that there were some serious concerns behind the façade of ridicule.

The Brookings Report
Specifically, “Proposed Studies on the Implications of Peaceful Space Activities for Human Affairs”, commissioned by NASA officials in 1960. Obtained under NASA FOIA Request # P-1 (96-188)



You can see a summary of the report here: www.anomalies.net...

Or scanned images of the actual report here: www.enterprisemission.com...

The Brookings institute has long (and is still) been commissioned by the government for various studies. The majority of the report deals with space travel, however there is a section that specifically recommends a policy of secrecy regarding the discovery of extra-terrestrial life.

Pg. 48 (of the PDF), section 4.


Though intelligent or semi-intelligent life conceivably exists elsewhere in
our solar system
, if intelligent extraterrestrial life is discovered in the next
twenty years, it will very probably be by radio telescope from other solar
systems. Evidences of its existence might also be found in artifacts left on the
moon or other planets.


When suggesting other studies, about how to deal with the public regarding discovery, the issue is addressed…



Questions one might wish to answer by such studies would include: How might such information, under what circumstances, be presented to or withheld from the public for what ends?

www.enterprisemission.com...

And, it doesn’t end with just the Robertson Panel Report, CIA Memos, the Fireman Guide, Extra-terrestrial Exposure Law, or even the Brookings Report. These are simply some examples, all pointing to the very real policy of publicly denouncing UFOs as a subject of ridicule, while away from public view, the issue is treated as a possible security threat, and a subject worthy of study. Still think there isn’t a coverup? One can find even more than what is mentioned here. More CIA memos, FBI inquiries, Navy and Air Force documents, and all long after Blue Book was closed.

While one can dispute the level of knowledge the government has regarding UFOs, it is extremely clear that the evidence suggests the US government has a long-standing policy of ridiculing UFOs publicly, while investigating it covertly. Simply put, yes Virginia....there is a CoverUp....




posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 12:00 PM
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Nice inclusion Gazrock, debunkers never seem to focus on info such as this.

As I have said a zillion times before peeps new to this subject can do no better than to read "Beyond Top Secret" by Timothy Good for an overview on how much goverments have covered up the existance of U.F.O's.

Textbook info like what you have presented Gazrock is so often ignored or overlooked, the truth is out there if you read between the lines.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 12:04 PM
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Very well done and informative post. I find the subject very interesting since we are constantly being told by our government that they no longer investigate UFO's. The UFO Files program on the History Channel last Monday night even mentioned that not only does the government track UFO's but every sighting by a commerical pilot is documented in detail and sent to NORAD. NORAD of course denies that the documents exist. The FOA act has certainly help bring a lot of info into the light but there is still much secrecy on our GOV's part. As far as the Disney Documentay, there have been several occasions since then that someone in the entertainment business has been approached about doing a UFO disclosure doc with the promise of actual UFO footage from the Pentagon. For whatever reasons it is always withdrawn at the last minute. Anyway the truth is out there!



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 12:07 PM
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On that same site (presidential ufo), you'll see Robert Emenegger mentioned. Bob's been involved in many such documentaries...even usually uncredited in such specials as the UFO CoverUp Live ones that aired in the 80's. I believe Linda Howe was another researcher promised film footage by the military (so she claims).



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 12:33 PM
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Cover ups and conspiracies are based on the government and military being infallible and "all knowing". Historicaly, we simply know those notions are hillariosly untrue. If the 1970's did one thing, the era taught us that governments and the military (in particular the US) can be calculating and operate in a untrustworthy fashion. So that era further planted the need for a new breed of investigative reporting that paved the way for todays more questionable standards. Presidents and military officials have been caught in endless corruption and scandals since. Some were tried and lost their jobs or served their time in jail. Are they the only stupid ones. Are the people involved in UFO cover ups all the super elite uber smarties that defy all forms of real hard core investigative reporting??

UFO sites and UFO'ologists are great at inflaming or concocting notions of conspiracy. That is their lot in life and for others it's their bread and butter. There really are no journalistic ethics or bounderies for these people. They can take one ounce fact and pile on two pounds of unfounded postulation. They beat those ingredients together until it reads the way you like it to.

What is dissinformation if its not presumption, suspicion, and questions posed in the guise of fact. Opinions are fine, but presenting them as fact based on spurious notion is no less a conspiracy to misslead interested readers. Deny ignorance and demand incontrovertible evidence.


It's on the Web...it has to be real

Here's some more cannon fodder - read the source

HARVARD PROF. CONFIRMS ABDUCTIONS ARE REAL!
LINK 1

ALIENS ARE HERE FOR OUR KRISPY KREMES!
LINK 2

SPACE ALIEN STATUE FOUND AT ROSWELL!
LINK 3

ALIEN BUSTED FOR DUI
LINK 4



[edit on 1-9-2005 by nullster]



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 12:36 PM
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Obviously it is much-ado-about-nothing if UFO's do not exist. The starting date mentioned for the Robertson Panel being 1952 is strange in that was only 5 years after Roswell and during a time of tremendous UFO activity over DC. Hum?



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 12:54 PM
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Hey guys, this is my first stop here, I have to see this sort of debate on the phenomena reflects well on this subject

Gazrok,Great post.

It is readily apparent that the government has a veil of secrecy surrounding this issue. We only can be skeptical as to the reasons why, and ultimately what the ufo phenomena represents - extraterrestrial presence? or covert military project, or some other unheard of alternative. Personally the idea ufos represent military technology is ludicrous.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 12:58 PM
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Deny ignorance and demand incontrovertible evidence.


In other words, forget about evidence, just give me absolute proof! (i.e. incontrovertible evidence). Well, if we had PROOF, then it'd hardly be a controversial subject, now would it? In the absence of PROOF, we rely on what the EVIDENCE says...



It's on the Web...it has to be real


I used actual declassified government files and reports as the basis for the argument, not just "some websites". I've provided references equivalent to a college paper for retrieval, so this particular argument is completely invalid.



Cover ups and conspiracies are based on the government and military being infallible and "all knowing".


When it comes to, "is the government covering up a genuine interest and concern of UFOs", then YES, the government IS all-knowing, just as you or I are all-knowing in regards to OUR own actions!
So, when they, in their own words and documents, state that yes, publicly our interest in UFOs ended with Blue Book, but privately we're continuing to look into it....then yes, it does prove a coverup!

Yorga, the Robertson Panel makes no bones about why it was put together. It was triggered specifically as a response to the DC sightings and appearance on radar.



Personally the idea ufos represent military technology is ludicrous.


True, why would you spend money and man hours investigating something you knew the answer to (i.e. if it was just military projects)???

[edit on 1-9-2005 by Gazrok]



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 01:32 PM
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Whats cool about the US government and UFO's is their interest in them. After WWII there was a great amount of prosperity but there was also a growing post war tension that led to an arms race (Cold War).

Keeping the facts straight forward and as black and white as possible, UFO sightings, and the phenomenon surrounding them raised concerns about national security. Many presidents opened commissions to investigate and build policies to deal with them. That is what has to be done. Not to do so would be reckless and irresponsible. People choose to interpret those policies how they will. They are free to form opinions however they will.

As military tensions grew both thet US and Russia viewed them as a very real threat. More agressive procedures were devised for all national security concerns. That wassimply the next logical step. Not to do so would be a politcal gaffe of monstrous proportions. As for cover up. There are no laws in place that force any administration to reveal their contingency plans for any national security issues. If there were, our defenses would be toast. Those policies are secret and if ever made public are done only after a president has left office (usually opens a presidential library).

If anything administrative documents, protocol, and procedures for dealing with the UFO phenomenon only bolster the fact that the Government was not in the know. Was not in the thick of a working conspiracy. They clearly show that both governments took the matter seriosly enough to make contingency plans.

Unfortunately "Official" documents posted on the web (not from their original source) have to be taken with a grain of salt. People forge, edit, or completely fabricate documents. Remember the recent Bush National Gaurd Fiasco. Purpoted National Guard documents were presented as legit only later found to be completely falsified. Dan Rather had to step down because of it.

On a lighter note. Its on the web so it has to be real


GERMAN AIR FORCE FLEW UFOS IN WW2
LINK 1

SPACE ALIEN SKULL FOUND AT ROSWELL
LINK 2

ALIENS COMING BACK HOME -- TO EARTH!
LINK 3

U.S. SPACE BABY HAS ALMOND EYES & BULB HEAD
LINK 4

Enjoy



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 01:58 PM
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Unfortunately "Official" documents posted on the web (not from their original source) have to be taken with a grain of salt. People forge, edit, or completely fabricate documents. Remember the recent Bush National Gaurd Fiasco. Purpoted National Guard documents were presented as legit only later found to be completely falsified. Dan Rather had to step down because of it.


I have seen each of these documents in their respective FOIA sites... However, the sites I linked to are easier to view than the FOIA sites, and far less cumbersome. That is why I mentioned more reference info, in case somebody feels like they really need to verify. I've gone through hundreds of the thousands of pages of UFO-related docs. However, they are clumsily filed in lumps on FOIA in one pdf file per section, and linking to them isn't practical (or kind to the reader), as they'd have to wade through unrelated pages until seeing it. CUFON is a very well-respected UFOlogy site which is why I chose it for some doc links even though they are also elsewhere other than FOIA.

Yes, the government interest in UFOs following the war is well justified. However, my point isn't that they were interested but that they dismissed it publicly as ridicule after BlueBook, while secretly continuing the investigation. One thing we've learned from past government scandals is that many times, there are small groups in government that know far more than the government at large. This is what many UFOlogists believe, and what we feel is supported by the evidence. The same names keep popping up over and over again in the research, and indicate a level of knowledge above and beyond the general governmental knowledge. Even key Blue book personnel knew they weren't seeing everything. For example, there are numerous FOIA released documents (some even on the pages I linked to) that talk about plane-mounted cameras capturing UFOs (usually during projects such as Grudge, Twinkle, Sign, etc. etc.). Yet, NONE of these are cases in Bluebook (even some are passively mentioned there!) Ruppelt and Hynek both state that others, showing military ids, would sometimes get evidence before BlueBook officials showed up.

My aim here in this particular post wasn't to prove the level of coverup, just that the goal of coverup is there, as is the willingness to use mass media to program the ridicule factor into the populace.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 02:03 PM
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National security reasons is the most likely purpose for the cover-up.

If the ufos were ours, I somehow doubt the USAF would violate so many countries' to test the thing, risking it being shot down. Considering how ufos maneuver its doubtful they could have made an appearance in 1947 or before.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by mj 09
National security reasons is the most likely purpose for the cover-up.

If the ufos were ours, I somehow doubt the USAF would violate so many countries' to test the thing, risking it being shot down. Considering how ufos maneuver its doubtful they could have made an appearance in 1947 or before.












My thoughts exactly. Take the Belgin incident as a good example. If that was a USA craft then why would they violate Belgin air space and risk an international incident. Plus why would we take a chance of having such a Black Project craft exposed?



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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Gazrok, what can I say,.......... EXCELLENT WORK



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 05:35 PM
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I wonder about Doty and Collin's hypothesis that the Cash-Landrum case was the usaf testing one their own reverse-engineered craft,why fly it over a highway if it could have such disastrous ramifications( ie. radiation poisoning).



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 06:52 PM
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I always like reading your threads!

The government has done a good job of ridiculing and debunking this subject over the years.

Its amazing to me , the number of people out there who really believe that if the US government knew anything at all they would hold a press conference and tell us!

I think the evidence in your thread should show people that the US Government has absolutely no plans to be forthcoming with the public. And they have clear intentions to influence the public's opinion of the UFO phenomena.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 08:25 PM
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Gazrok - Top post.


This is the kind of stuff needed - Not the little green men and dodgy pics

Keep on track :

i have a feeling the other guy in this post 'Nullster' is working on the project himself -

He sure seems quick to put down your post -
Well Nullster who do you work for ?



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by Yorga
every sighting by a commerical pilot is documented in detail and sent to NORAD. NORAD of course denies that the documents exist.

Your refering to JANAP 146, which is a procedure manual for reporting "vital intelligence sightings", which includes military craft invading our air space or oceans, but it is also for unidentified flying objects.

www.cufon.org...

I like the report they use for an example.




MERINT 5126 N 14230W 3 UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS
HEADED NW AT 17000 FEET CIGAR SHAPE 50 FEET TO SW AT
2 MILES VERIFIED BY NAVIGATOR VISIBILITY UNLIMITED
211513Z JONES NKLN


Nice work Gazrok. I think there is enough here to prove the government's policy, except I'm not sure about what role Disney would play in the coverup. On that website they are stating he was being used to disclose info, as in Cosmic Journey, not to cover it up. Maybe I missed the point, care to elaborate?



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 09:23 PM
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Then General George Marshall said it well. And he did it it in a major News Paper Interview. Their here and cannot function in our atmosphere as it's not sufficient for their survival.

Seems to me you cannot get much higher of a level than Gen G M.

Dallas

EDIT: Let's cut the crap and go to facts from Military Brass.


[edit on 1-9-2005 by Dallas]



posted on Sep, 2 2005 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by andersonr
Gazrok - Top post.


This is the kind of stuff needed - Not the little green men and dodgy pics

Keep on track :

i have a feeling the other guy in this post 'Nullster' is working on the project himself -

He sure seems quick to put down your post -

Well Nullster who do you work for ?

For me, I'm self employed. I don't work for the uber agent G'men of countless stories

As for my comments, I just try and keep information in its historical context. In this forum I'm probably out numbered but its better to have a ballance. Or is that heresy. I am a true skeptic but I thoroughly enjoy UFO lore and how it has morphed over the years. It's most definately a very creative subject matter that inspires me in some of the work I do.



posted on Sep, 2 2005 @ 02:30 AM
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Look out to the stars for poof. Nay!
Check out the Goverment!


Really, some good sources there and this post is now on my favorites for reference.




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