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Weather Wars: Was Katrina artficially created?

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posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 08:04 PM
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A 60-year-old man rescued from his damaged yacht with his wife in the Great Australian Bight yesterday has described weather conditions on Tuesday as the worst he has ever seen.
Bill Todhunter and his wife, Dianne, were taken to Port Lincoln this afternoon by the crew of a tuna boat which rescued them 160 nautical miles west of Port Lincoln after the storm.
Although badly bruised and cut, the couple is happy to be alive and thankful to all of those involved in the rescue effort.
Mr Todhunter says the worst moment came when the lifeboat was torn from the yacht by a wave.

www.abc.net.au...

Tasmania is flooding and huge storms and seas off South Australia at present too. South australia also suffered a small earthquake last week.




posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 10:58 PM
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Was Haarp on Andrew? was Haarp used to stirr up Ivan? or Hugo? or Camille? Marylin? Or John, which was the most powerful hurricane I've ever seen with over 200mph sustained winds?

Or Louis that hit St Maarten almost exactly ten years ago and almost demolished the island???

I don't think so. Hurricanes are always there, every year and from time to time a CAt 5 comes by. And they often take sharp twists and turns. There's no differenc from Katrina and any other hurricane recorded in the past century or before that when it comes to formation.



posted on Sep, 2 2005 @ 10:58 PM
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Washington's New World Order Weapons Have the Ability to Trigger Climate Change

by Michel Chossudovsky, Professor of Economics, University of Ottawa
Third World Resurgence, January 2001
Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG), globalresearch.ca, 4 January 2002

The important debate on global warming under UN auspices provides but a partial picture of climate change; in addition to the devastating impacts of greenhouse gas emissions on the ozone layer, the World's climate can now be modified as part of a new generation of sophisticated "non-lethal weapons." Both the Americans and the Russians have developed capabilities to manipulate the World's climate.

In the US, the technology is being perfected under the High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) as part of the ("Star Wars") Strategic Defence Initiative (SDI). Recent scientific evidence suggests that HAARP is fully operational and has the ability of potentially triggering floods, droughts, hurricanes and earthquakes. From a military standpoint, HAARP is a weapon of mass destruction. Potentially, it constitutes an instrument of conquest capable of selectively destabilising agricultural and ecological systems of entire regions.

The URL of this article is:
globalresearch.ca...

Looks like the Canadians think there's already weather weapons. HAARP scapergoat again. It sticks out like a sore thumb for everyone to point at, sounds more like a decoy to keep the eyes off the real ball.

Kapow pitcher takes out the batter with a sleeper...


[edit on 3-9-2005 by Regenmacher]



posted on Sep, 2 2005 @ 11:48 PM
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Nice Thread. Good research and some valid points. I started a thread similar to this on Aug 31 at 9:33am. Check it out it.. it is entitiled "HAARP and Hurricane Katrina"

HAARP and Hurricane Katrina



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 03:15 PM
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I agree that it is probably wrong to suggest Katrina was artificially created. But hurricanes are so common down there, isn't it therefore plausible to suggest that a, say, CAT 2 or CAT 3 hurricane could not be artificially upgraded to a CAT 4 or CAT 5? Or at least alter it's path?


E_T

posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by cargo
But hurricanes are so common down there, isn't it therefore plausible to suggest that a, say, CAT 2 or CAT 3 hurricane could not be artificially upgraded to a CAT 4 or CAT 5? Or at least alter it's path?
Sure, you just have to increase water temperature (/requires warmer weather) because hurricanes get their energy from warm seawater. While above Florida Katrina was weak, "just born", hurricane and it's power increased only when it entered above warm ocean.

And easiest way for getting warmer is "putting more clothes on".
Now everyone should remember that carbon dioxide level has increased ~40% after industrial revolution (and keeps skyrocketing) and it's now on level unforeseen in last 400 000 years. (which includes many ice ages and warm periods)



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 03:47 PM
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blame this thread on ATS...

this IS a conspiracy site...

so, what are people going to post???

conspiracies...

don't yell at this poster...





posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by cargo
...isn't it therefore plausible to suggest that a, say, CAT 2 or CAT 3 hurricane could not be artificially upgraded to a CAT 4 or CAT 5? Or at least alter it's path?


Yep (it is plausible). As E_T pointed out, it simply requires a net input of energy. Here's a simple model explaining the energy transfer system as it relates to weather:



This image is provided courtesy of Stephen Schneider, Stanford Professor in the Dept. of Biological Sciences and Senior Fellow, Stanford Institute for International Studies... He has a website discussing climate change -- Click here.

Furthermore, one can access the US Congressional record of the Weather Modification Research and Technology Transfer Act of 2005 to see for themself that this in fact is a topic of discussion at the Federal Govt. level.


"Specifically, the bill creates a Weather Modification Advisory and Research Board in the Department of Commerce to promote the ``theoretical and practical knowledge of weather modification'' through the funding of research and development projects. The board will be made up of representatives from the American Meteorological Society, the American Society of Civil Engineers, the National Academy of Sciences, the National Center for Atmospheric Research, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, a higher education institution and a state which is currently supporting operational weather modification projects."

EDIT: It has coem to my attention that the above link I provided has "timed out," requing a new search to be initiated. To do this, simply visit thomas.loc.gov..., and enter "S517" as the search criteria if searching by Bill Number (or "weather modification" if searching by keywords).



[edit on 3-9-2005 by sdrumrunner]



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 09:33 PM
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Hurricanes taking a 90 degree turn are nothing new. We had one do a 180 degree turn in the 60s after it passed us, come back and hit us. There's no way to predict what a storm is going to do.



posted on Sep, 3 2005 @ 09:40 PM
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I'm really sorry for bursting your conspiracy bubble ( no I'm really not sorry),

but you can check the following link, it has ALL the REAL info supported BY SCIENTISTS about Hurricanes


Hurricane Info



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by BaastetNoir

I'm really sorry for bursting your conspiracy bubble ( no I'm really not sorry),

but you can check the following link, it has ALL the REAL info supported BY SCIENTISTS about Hurricanes


That's one of the worst slop job weather sites I have yet to see and I have seen thousands. That site is not real anything, cept real ugly, ripped off and hotlinked info from government sites.

Try here if you want to talk to real mets, like myself:
www.storm2k.org...

Otherwise stick the the OFFICIAL source and read the TWO's:
www.nhc.noaa.gov...

Meanwhle say something relevant to this thread, and you should be sorry for posting that.

[edit on 4-9-2005 by Regenmacher]



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by E_T
Sure, you just have to increase water temperature (/requires warmer weather) because hurricanes get their energy from warm seawater. While above Florida Katrina was weak, "just born", hurricane and it's power increased only when it entered above warm ocean.

And easiest way for getting warmer is "putting more clothes on".
Now everyone should remember that carbon dioxide level has increased ~40% after industrial revolution (and keeps skyrocketing) and it's now on level unforeseen in last 400 000 years. (which includes many ice ages and warm periods)


There's a lot more variables (wind shear, MJO, salinity, El Niño, fluid dynamics, etc) to cyclogenesis than warm water. There's warm water all the time but not tropical systems. Warm water does not always mean a storm will reach its full potential either or even form. The gulf this time of year is capable of supporting a catagory 5 hurricane at anytime due to water temps, but it's not going to happen on one factor alone.

Brush up on your weather knowledge here some links to get you started:

CSU and Doc Grey leading expert in hurricanes:
The Tropical Meteorology Project
tropical.atmos.colostate.edu...

FORECAST OF ATLANTIC HURRICANE ACTIVITY FOR SEPTEMBER AND OCTOBER 2005 AND SEASONAL UPDATE THROUGH AUGUST
hurricane.atmos.colostate.edu...

Tropical Storm FAQ
www.aoml.noaa.gov...



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by sdrumrunner

Yep (it is plausible). As E_T pointed out, it simply requires a net input of energy. Here's a simple model explaining the energy transfer system as it relates to weather:

[edit on 3-9-2005 by sdrumrunner]


Great find sdrumrunner, that's what I am talkin about in regards to bringing some actual meat to the table here..


Looks like in theory if you can open up an ozone hole above a tropical system which can increase diurnal heating, vertical shear and convection.

How many ergs or watts does it take to open up a hole in the ionosphere is another question and if localized narrow beam microwave can do that.

jwocky.gsfc.nasa.gov...

[edit on 4-9-2005 by Regenmacher]


E_T

posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 05:34 AM
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Originally posted by Regenmacher
There's a lot more variables...
Sure. And quite propably some factors which aren't even known currently.
But heat is always the fuel, more of it enables even smaller disturbances/instability to cause stronger storms.
(like in thunderstorms, here in Finland CAPE 500 is high while there in tornado alley that kind CAPE value would be just start and that shows in amount/power of thunderstorms)


What... No link to NOAA's excellent JetStream page?

www.srh.noaa.gov...
(hurricanes under Tropical Weather > Tropical Cyclones)



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by E_T
Sure, you just have to increase water temperature (/requires warmer weather) because hurricanes get their energy from warm seawater. While above Florida Katrina was weak, "just born", hurricane and it's power increased only when it entered above warm ocean.


Guess you didn't discover your statement is in error. Okay I will show you.

Katrina actually entered slightly cooler waters when she reached Catagory 5.
Katrina's intensity did not increase due to the water temperature.


Intensity forecasting is still largely inaccurate it would be easy if it was just based on water temps and it's not. Hurricanes derive their energy from the thermodynamic disequilibrium that exists between the tropical oceans and the overlying atmosphere.

Track file and SST's:
www.atmos.umd.edu...



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 07:09 AM
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Notice your statment. WHEN SHE REACHED CATEGORY 5. She was already a Cat 5 when she entered the colder water. That is also probably why she dropped in intensity right as she came ashore, the cold water would cause a weakening. When she made landfall she was already below the Cat 5 threshold because of the cold water she had passed over. The conditions were good over the open ocean for her to intensify, then as she neared landfall the conditions changed, and became worse and she weakened.



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
Notice your statment. WHEN SHE REACHED CATEGORY 5. She was already a Cat 5 when she entered the colder water. That is also probably why she dropped in intensity right as she came ashore, the cold water would cause a weakening. When she made landfall she was already below the Cat 5 threshold because of the cold water she had passed over. The conditions were good over the open ocean for her to intensify, then as she neared landfall the conditions changed, and became worse and she weakened.


No she was not cat 5 before she entered cooler water. Did you bother to look at the sea surface temps before you wrote that?

And no, sea water temps had very little to do with her dropping intensity before landfall either.

Who's feeding you guys this warm water crap? CNN?
Sure isn't any reputable meteorologist or looking at the data...egads!


[edit on 4-9-2005 by Regenmacher]



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 07:28 AM
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Hurricane Formation and Decay
Hurricanes form over tropical waters (between 8° and 20° latitude) in areas of high humidity, light winds, and warm sea surface temperatures (typically 26.5°C [80°F] or greater). These conditions usually prevail in the summer and early fall months of the tropical North Atlantic and North Pacific Oceans and for this reason, hurricane "season" in the northern hemisphere runs from June through November.
earthobservatory.nasa.gov...

Hurricanes need a lot of energy and they get the energy from the ocean. The warm water and warm air near the surface help to cause hurricanes to form. Once they form, hurricanes take energy from the water to get stronger. While a hurricane is over warm water it will continue to grow. If it travels over land it will start to weaken and eventually end. This is why mainly coastal areas are affected by hurricanes.
www.windows.ucar.edu...=/earth/Atmosphere/hurricane/formation.html

First, the ocean water should be above 80 degrees Fahrenheit, which provides for the proper amount of water to evaporate. The warm water should also be a couple hundred feet deep because storms stir up the water, bringing some colder water to the surface.

Next, the winds need to come together at the surface, almost like colliding into each other. The air needs to be unstable so that these colliding winds will rise, like in a chimney.

The air several thousand feet up needs to be humid. This humidity, vapor, will supply a lot of the energy needed for the storm's development. The upper level winds should be traveling in the same direction and close together so that they do not tear up the upper level clouds of the storm.
ksks.essortment.com...

Hurricanes are formed from simple complexes of thunderstorms. However, these thunderstorms can only grow to hurricane strength with cooperation from both the ocean and the atmosphere. First of all, the ocean water itself must be warmer than 26.5 degrees Celsius (81°F). The heat and moisture from this warm water is ultimately the source of energy for hurricanes. Hurricanes will weaken rapidly when they travel over land or colder ocean waters -- locations with insufficient heat and/or moisture.
ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu...(Gh)/guides/mtr/hurr/grow/home.rxml


But I guess you know better than all these people, INCLUDING NASA huh?



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
Notice your statment. WHEN SHE REACHED CATEGORY 5. . That is also probably why she dropped in intensity right as she came ashore, the cold water would cause a weakening. When she made landfall she was already below the Cat 5 threshold because of the cold water she had passed over. The conditions were good over the open ocean for her to intensify, then as she neared landfall the conditions changed, and became worse and she weakened.

But I guess you know better than all these people, INCLUDING NASA huh?


I know your statements are wrong and you didn't look at any current data.
You just wasted time posting a bunch of verbatim for grade school kids.


Originally posted by Zaphod58
She was already a Cat 5 when she entered the colder water
Wrong, look at the data.


Originally posted by Zaphod58
When she made landfall she was already below the Cat 5 threshold because of the cold water she had passed over.

Wrong, again look at the data.

Track file and SST's:
www.atmos.umd.edu...

Here's another example that warm water doesn't always determine hurricane intensity or longevity:
en.wikipedia.org...




A cold water hurricane in winter, didn't know about that one ehh?

Officially unnamed, it was dubbed The Hallowe'en Storm and The Perfect Storm. Had the storm been named, it would have been Hurricane Henri.
www.ncdc.noaa.gov...

Why don't you explain to me why you made false statements and didn't look at the Katrina data twice now.


[edit on 4-9-2005 by Regenmacher]



posted on Sep, 4 2005 @ 02:47 PM
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In the Senate of the United States

March 3, 2005

It is the purpose of this Act to develop and implement a comprehensive and coordinated national weather modification policy and a national cooperative Federal and State program of weather modification research and development.



CONVENTION ON THE PROHIBITION OF MILITARY OR ANY OTHER HOSTILE USE OF ENVIRONMENTAL MODIFICATION TECHNIQUES
Adopted by Resolution 31/72 of the United Nations General Assembly on 10 December 1976


Each State Party to this Convention undertakes not to engage in military or any other hostile use of environmental modification techniques having widespread, long-lasting or severe effects as the means of destruction, damage or injury to any other State Party.






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