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Wanted - 1 Conservative Leader

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posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 05:19 PM
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Well the summer recess is coming to an end, and with that comes what is fast becoming a regular occurrence! The Conservatives are looking for a new leader.

Kenneth Clarke has today declared his intentions and wants to lead the Conservatives.

There are 3 main contenders, Ken Clarke, David Davis and David Cameron. Both Clarke and Cameron have the support of 20+ MP's, with Davis the favourite boasting 70+ MP's supporting him.

It will be one of the more interesting things going on in UK politics in the coming weeks. They seem desperate to avoid a bitter and messy contest, it would seem after a prolonged time on the sidelines of power, The Conservatives want to get things right this time.

'Getting things right' however has little to do with politics, unfortunately, from what some MP's are saying. 'Getting it right' involves better PR and marketing of their party!

I understand what they're saying, Tony Blair and 'New Labour' raised the bar in terms of spin and marketing, but I thought the majority of us were sick of 'New Labour' and the spin etc.. Anyway.

Interesting site here, will be documenting the Leadership contest.

So who do you want/prefer to win? Do you care? Can the Tories elect someone who will not be a dead duck within a couple of months? What do you think of the current problems the Conservatives are having in relation to exactly who will decide on their Leader (i.e the MP's or the grassroots)?

Is Ken Clarke too left-wing, and too cosy with Europe? Is David Davis too right-wing? Is David Cameron too young!? So many questions, and I have babbled on enough.

Any thoughts? (I write that with some trepidation..
)




posted on Sep, 5 2005 @ 10:11 AM
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Okey dokey squarepusher, you asked.......

I think the tories have blown it.
Had they any sense they would have turned to Ken Clark long before now and have reversed out of their narrow little right-wing zealot's cul-de-sac long ago.

They didn't and they haven't and, despite the impressions of some, the British people are not so sick of 'New Labour', Tony Blair et al that they were not prepared to reelect them only a few months ago with a substantial working majority.

3 full Labour terms and no credible or realistic sign of any change on the horizon (no matter what the ding-bat 'true blue believers' might prefer to imagine).

Working out who is going to get to lose really really heavily to Gordon Brown in 2009 (just watch the Labour polls spring up spectacularly when Blair finally goes) is obviously going to take a little time for the tories - and they haven't yet finished having their rows within the wider party over the method they use to select their leader just yet.

IMO (and by the way that of several within the tory party) Davis is deeply suspect with a stack of unpleasant little tales to come out to the wider public stage - possibly most noteably his stance on race (see the John Townend affair and his later utterences on race and multiculturalism).
It really doesn't matter how much he denies or attempts to massage this it is just another example of a tory (and if he makes it, a tory leader) fitting the unappealing caricature and crowding the agenda, hardly what they need.
His background as a city consultant type is hardly appealing either and he has a Parliamentary record to defend - including time at the Foreign Office under John Major's gov.

Cameron is probably the most likely in an election or twos time but not 2009, IMO.
He also has very iffy roots.
He is yet another tory from the city and was Howards speech writer; if that is any indication of where he is coming from I doubt it will inspire anyone never mind anything remotely approaching new in the tory party.

Ken Clark is the man most likely IMO but the simple fact is that he'll be 70 at the next election.
Ken has a record as long as any yet it amazingly doesn't seem to hinder him - his spell as Home Secretary was *ahem* interesting as was his tenure at the Education and also the Health Service.
Some tories wanted to attack Labour on the basis that if you elect Blair you'll get Brown mid way through the term (
yeah I know, a perfect example of the tory mentality and total out of touch-ness at work) - can you imagine the fieldday Labour would/will have if KC gets the job?
Elect Clark and get some right-wing looper part way through?!

It's just my 2 pennies but I really cannot see any way back for the tory party, they just don't seem to have anyone with the guts to effect the kind of real change they need to make.
For as long as they are simply in the business of reheating the same old same old and twiddling around the fringes of that I think they are going nowhere........and certainly not back into power.



posted on Sep, 6 2005 @ 05:29 PM
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It is a rather poor showing from them isnt it, after such a long time you would have thought they would have some strong contenders ready to grip the party by the horns and get it back into shape..

On that point I read an interesting article this week, roughly saying there is no cohesion within the party. That they are lacking such unity and lacking a decent manifesto of policies is disconcerting, considering they are the opposition.

And I believe it is that lack of cohesion that will see Davis made leader, the euro-sceptics will see to Clarke's chances, even though he is obviously their best chance of regaining votes.

Just reading that blog I linked in previous post, its very funny reading the comments of some tories! It is obvious they cant agree on how to move on, let alone who to elect. Some are even expecting Hague to make a comeback!
(If not Hague, chance of Liam Fox as an alternative to Clarke and Davis) Ken Clarke is very divisive, Davis is seen as a no-hoper (4 years in the cabinet and the public dont know who he is)

I expected the factions would be making the headlines this week, though obviously Katrina has had the media transfixed, very sad it is too =(.

[edit on 6-9-2005 by squarepusher]



posted on Oct, 15 2005 @ 02:10 AM
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I doubt it makes much difference if the Conservatives or Labour are in charge, there seems little real world difference - neither party are the kind of people you would want in any position of power.

Life in Britain will be essentially the same whoever gets in - the last real societal change brought about by government and not just economic pressures occurred in Thatcher's era.

Someone really needs to ignore the racial accusations and get a grip of immigration, because if that tiny island gets any more people on it they are going to start falling into the sea - sixth most densely populated country in the world I hear - crazy.



posted on Oct, 15 2005 @ 04:37 AM
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Originally posted by Winchester Ranger T
I doubt it makes much difference if the Conservatives or Labour are in charge, there seems little real world difference


Well, that is one of the interesting aspects of this leadership battle. Currently there are 2 very Conservative nominees, David Davies and Liam Fox. They have the support of the right wingers, Christian Conservatives, euro-sceptics. Either of them would undoubtedly lead the party from the Right of the political spectrum (e.g Tough on immigration).

On the other side is Ken Clarke, and David Cameron. Cameron is seen as the 'Conservative's Tony Blair' i.e centre-right of political spectrum and possibly the candidate who could get the Conservatives elected. Ken Clarke is similar to Cameron, the differences being he is old and he likes europe too much.

Stay tuned if interested, next Thursday mp's will have another secret vote and one of the above will be forced to concede. It is expected Ken Clarke will be the next to go.

As for your concerns of our density, I found this. Figures are from July 2005, hope thats not too out of date for you. UK is 33rd.



posted on Oct, 15 2005 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by Winchester Ranger T
I doubt it makes much difference if the Conservatives or Labour are in charge, there seems little real world difference.....

Life in Britain will be essentially the same whoever gets in - the last real societal change brought about by government and not just economic pressures occurred in Thatcher's era.


- Yeah well that's an interesting if completely incorrect tack.

What is this, the UK tory partys' new approach?
"Don't bin us off everybody cos there's no difference; we're no better and just as bad as the other parties", hmm?

Yeah right.

If the tory party had not been ejected from power in 1997 do you seriously think we would still (just some - magical - how) have gotten, just for instance, the national minimum wage; the social chapter on minimum workers rights bringing UK workers into line with the minimum standards that apply across the rest of the EU and the European Convention on Human Rights would still have been incorporated into British law.

(Despite the tory's long history of 'opt outs'.)

Yeah right; sure we would.

What you prefer to see as "the last real societal change" is no more than a comment that is utterly indicative of your own personal political outlook and so telling as to where you are coming from.


Someone really needs to ignore the racial accusations and get a grip of immigration, because if that tiny island gets any more people on it they are going to start falling into the sea - sixth most densely populated country in the world I hear - crazy.


- If you really think the problem with immigration is simply one of mere 'room' in the UK you want to get out more.



posted on Oct, 15 2005 @ 12:08 PM
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Its DD for me and i aren't talking about some Essex girl


David Davis is the best out of all of them and i really hope he does win the leadership race



posted on Oct, 15 2005 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by infinite
David Davis is the best out of all of them and i really hope he does win the leadership race


- I heard an interesting (and IMO very true) comment on the radio the other day.

David Davis has been around for years (he was in Major's tory gov).

So, if he's so fitted and outstandingly talented how come almost no-one has heard much about him?

(....and plenty of those who follow politics know there are parts of his past that make distinctly uneasy reading.

Amongst them was his refusal to condemn outrageous racist remarks by that (now) ex-tory MP nutter John Townend.

There are a lot of Labour people quietly looking forward to him getting the job you know.

Ken Clark was the sensible candidate with genuine wide public appeal (but a tad old by 2009/10.....as will be Davis) but the tory party are still only concerned with who is sufficiently 'ideologically pure'.)

[edit on 15-10-2005 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Oct, 15 2005 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by squarepusher
As for your concerns of our density, I found this. Figures are from July 2005, hope thats not too out of date for you. UK is 33rd.


That's an interesting table. The study I recalled where Britain came in at number 6 may in fact have referred to England as Scotland and Wales are largely unpopulated by comparison.

I do however stand corrected.



posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 06:44 AM
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I'd prefer Cameron to win out of the selection, the others are either too right wing/old to be able to mount any real form of attack upon Labour at the next election..
Personally I can see that if Cameron wins the leadership contest we'd see a ''New Labour'' style reform of the Conservative party, new image, new policy's, and generally attempting to shed the old style evil Tory image.



posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 12:29 PM
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So second vote out of the way, and its down to the final 2, Cameron and Davies.

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Cameron strong favourite amongst the MP's, there were rumours going round that he would be made leader by the end of the week (bypassing the grassroots vote)! I think the Davies camp are very happy to see an end to this chapter of the election as it was obvious his support was dwindling.

In my opinion, Cameron is in for a rough ride from the Conservative membership, 6 weeks is an awfully long time and all the hype around him certainly cant continue for a such a period of time.

Anyone think this is going to turn nasty? If I was a betting man I'd put money on Davies winning it now. It would seem that Cameron's lack of experience is a huge stumbling point and makes Davies the safe option.

As said though, 6 weeks! My eyes automatically start rolling at the thought of all the maneuvering that will no doubt ensue. Why they need 6 weeks, frankly I think it's absurd.



posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 07:46 PM
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Interesting; I must admit part way through this week I had half an idea to put some cash of Fox as the outsider coming through!
They might be crazy but, obviously, they're not quite that crazy.


Mmmmmm, if I were still involved with the Labour party I'd be rubbing my hands and grinning at the prospect of either Davis or Cameron.

Davis has stuff deeply suspect in his past (which, in election time, will work to rob him of the agenda if he becomes tory leader as people probe his true stance) and Cameron is so inexperienced and has the pure 'gift' in that what experience he does have is so dreadfully aweful.

Let's not forget (and you can bet the Labour party will not hesitate to remind people) that David Cameron (Eton educated, high-flying 'city' type......hmmm, way to depart from the usual narrow confines of the white male upper-middle class stereotype guys and give us more of that great tory representitive 'reflecting the nation as it is', again
) was one of Lamont's 'bag carriers' at the Treasury during the whole of the ERM melt-down and subsequent fiasco and more recently he speech wrote for Howard and co-authored that appalling 2005 tory manifesto.

6 weeks for the tory party to decide that rearranging the deckchairs of their sinking ship is the way to go; it's not like they have no experience of this, they did it twice before.
Rather than tackle the hard stuff (like policy) they imagine a quick change of leader is the answer.

Like I said, figuring out who is going to lose heavily to Brown in 2009/10 is such a complex business!



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