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ATS Suicide?

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posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 04:31 AM
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Originally posted by spliff4020
greeeat. Then discuss it. But when you start postin drama pics, your really settin an awesome example and really opening the floor up for discussion. When you post like your learing down the front of glasses at me, your just baiting.... The post was made as if Im complaining about receiving a warning or something.


Agreed. Majic that is just incredibly arrogant on your part.




posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 04:39 AM
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Simulacra---

I catogorically deny all your above mentioned accusations.

But if your agreeing with me, then I surely must be on to something here. Stagnation....thats the word.....


oh btw-- i just checked the forecast for hell...snow showers all day...that must explain your actually agreeing with me....







to everyone else...simulacra just gets pissed but because I dont excuse peoples behavior or irresponsiblity, and Im not chock full of sympathy for people. Hey-- you make your bed...sleep in it...know what I mean?



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 04:44 AM
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Oh and the "and if your complaint is found valid" blah blah blah....I wasnt inquiring as to how file a complaint. Im saying that if the powers in charge around here just paid attention to what was happening in the posts, rather than lecturing everyone on how THEY want us to post, ohhhh nevermind...im tired..im goin to bed.....look forward to probably waking up to this in trash and me banned. See ya guys tommorow (?)



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 05:03 AM
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ATS is slowly cutting her own wrists.

Or maybe just cutting off the fat.


It seems everyday is a new post explaining what we are and are not "allowed" to do.


Seems to me there was at most maybe two individual posts, Springer's and RANT's, addressing two important issues related to board etiquette and post quality. Any further posts were in response to members not seeming to understand the fairly simple tenets outlined therein.


Theres sarcastic/arrogant posts made about "so you want to make a post" or condescending lectures about whats allowed.

I thought that RANT's post was satire rather than sarcasm, and rather amusing satire at that...but hey, I could be wrong. What would you rather have, an all out tirade or a humorous reminder? As for "condescending lectures", I think that's simply a factor of personal interpretation. I interpreted Springer's post as a reminder without beating around the bush. There comes a time when mincing words just doesn't cut it any more and one has to be direct. The staff have been politely and indirectly reminding the membership of what the spirit of ATS is for months and months, and no one seems to have taken any notice. Well, now they are. Seems to me the only people who have a problem with Springer's posts are the one who engage in the baiting and sniping that it addressed. Who would've thought...?


I think what the staff fails to realize is that while its their board, its NOTHING with out us.


I think the members need to realize that while they are free (double meaning there) to use the board and post as they will, ATS is NOTHING without retaining the original spirit of civil discussion and collaborative research upon which it was founded. In the end, yes, ATS is a privately owned institution, and if the owners don't want to see it turn into a cesspool of partisan garbage and flaming, then that's their prerogative. Even at a public swimming pool, you're expected not to pee in it.


And slowly, the people are leaving.


Uhh...like...who? Do you have a list? Apart from those who can't handle discussing issues with people they disagree with while retaining a certain level of decorum, I haven't sensed any drop in the active membership.


What the admistration (I think) just doesnt get, is that the majority of the people dont want to post there(PTS). They(me) want to post on ATS. If theres bickering, so be it. Let the people argue. If someone is truely out of line, lets the mods handle it.

Maybe no one is posting in PTS because not many people WANT to be involved in bickering. Maybe they want to discuss conspiracies in a calm, rational environment. If they touch on politics, they want to discuss the conspiracy side of it. Maybe they want to discuss and investigate how Halliburton got the contract to upgrade Guantanamo without being told the only reason they brought the issue up is because they are a Bush-hater/terrorist-lover. Maybe they want to discuss how Democrat Clinton was assisting Republican George H.W. Bush to launder drug money when he was Governor of Arkensas, without being called a tulip walking liberal commie pinko AND a neocon baby-eater all in the same sentence. Confused? You will be if you're stuck in the left-right paradigm.


The thought of keepin ATS strictly for conspiricies is just wrong. There are no more. Everything has been done to death. 9/11, kennedy, UFOs, its all the same. Its all been posted so many times that within minutes of anyone makin a post, someone chimes in with "we've discussed this on this thread.."

Sounds like you need to take a break. If you're bored with the content of ATS, sniping and baiting others into partisan bickering may bring back the thrill for you, but in the end it only makes it a miserable place for everyone else. Should the entire board become a quagmire of bickering just so you can get your mojo back?


PTS is lame and dead. Why not just make a new forum on ATS for politics, ban the jerks who swear and threaten, fine the sh*t out of thread hijackers and leave it at that.


I count two clicks to get to a PTS forum, one click to get to a hypothetical Political Issues forum in ATS, and if you discover the fabulous world of tabbed browsers, you can have them all open at the same time. What makes you think a Political Issues forum in ATS is going to be any more lively than PTS? Is it the color? Maybe we can U2U SO and tell him that it's all about decor. PTS needs to have gray wallpaper just like ATS to bring the punters in.


Or according to MY conspiricy: Simon wants to make the board a news only forum, obtain huge numbers so someone like FOX or MSN takes note, makes him offer and hes rich! But thankfully since the board has been taking small doses of poison, it dies quickly after being bought. With all the loot simon made, he relaxes in the islands, and starts another small little board and watches it grow up......just like this one...


You think that there's millions to be made out of ATS? Then why aren't you starting up your own website and doing the same thing? You can even allow political sniping and baiting in order to get more "customers" in.
How much money and time do you think has gone into ATS already over the last 8 years to provide a free website for you today; free for you to publicly complain about whenever you personally interpret conspiracy or mismanagement? Simon, Springer and William could make more money in a month from hosting pron than they will likely ever make from ATS. And if they make some money to recuperate their ongoing investment, then so frikkin what?? I see the same tactic of character assassination leveled at prominent figures in the conspiracy community who have devoted their lives to getting the truth out. People seem to think that these folks should martyr their entire life to the cause, and that if they make enough money from it to feed their family and buy a car, then they must be only in it for the cash.

Again, it seems the only people who have a problem with this whole issue are the ones who get off on the sniping and baiting. 99% of the active membership have not been affected by this in any way, shape or form. Hell, I still even see plenty of bickering and mild sniping going on, and even participate in it sometimes...just ask HowardRoark.
But mindless knee-jerk "tulip-walker"/"baby-eater" political snipes do naught but completely destroy any chance at productive discussion on this conspiracy discussion board.

[edit on 2005-8-31 by wecomeinpeace]



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 05:06 AM
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Blank Point


Originally posted by spliff4020
Well, majic thanks but I think you completly missed my point. Im not bitching about a warning or a thread being moved. Although I do get offended long winded, arrogant posts directed at everyone. This isnt a classroom and we dont need scolded. Deal with the offenders, let the people post...its simple.

I caught that. The part I didn't get was how “offenders” are supposed to know they're offenders if the staff doesn't tell them what an offense is.

Considering how much deliberate confusion has been expressed by some members in the form of public chest-beating and stentorian polemic right here in BQ&B, the need to elaborate seemed obvious -- and has been driven by some members, to whom those clarifications have been specifically addressed, again and again.

As for long-winded posts, that's the only brand I offer. I've tried adapting my posting style to conform to the wishes of others before, and gave up bothering. And are they really any worse than a series of “and another thing” posts?

The ignore button's on the left if I truly offend you that much, although I try to put enough whitespace in my posts to allow people to skim through and get the gist if they don't have a couple of hours to dedicate to each of them.


Regarding the accusations of arrogance, I suggest looking at who is judging who in this thread. In that category, I see some serious and self-evident hypocrisy. Remember, when you point a finger at someone else, you're pointing three fingers back at yourself.

I'll leave it to others to decide the question of arrogance for themselves.

Tone Deaf


Originally posted by spliff4020
I dont appreciate the condesending tone. Such as "oh the drama" Your a mod, get used to drama.

My tone is not intended to be condescending, just frank. If you think I'm talking down to you, that's your interpretation, not my message. I don't consider myself superior to any other member. Just different.

Speaking as a drama queen myself, I consider you a fellow drama queen. Don't take it so hard, we liven up the board in our fashion, and as long as we don't irritate enough other members to justify a lynching, or mouth off to the staff enough to warrant a banning, our presence is tolerated here -- and even appreciated by some.

And as noted above, I'm not a mod, but a Councilor. I was elected by the members to represent them, and of course, that includes you. I can't give warns, can't ban and have no business telling other members what to do.

Hence my tendency to give advice, not orders.


Strike At The Band


Originally posted by spliff4020
The podcasts have potential, but the 5 or 6 devoted to you pumping your new album is nothing more than free advertising for you and has nothing to do with anything consprical. Perhaps if you spent more time checking threads (since you admit you dont) youd notice the decline.

You may want to take a closer look at what the BTS PODcast feed is for.

SkepticOverlord very thoughtfully spelled it out in ATS PODcast 001 and yes, pumping albums is exactly the kind of thing the BTS feed is for, as well as pretty much any other personal BTS-style stuff members want to PODcast.

Talk about condescending. You're illustrating your own point in this case. :shk:

Where's the “Oh the irony!” graphic when I need one?


Forma Pro


Originally posted by spliff4020
The reason? Its not fun anymore. Its almost as if posting on here has become a privilidge. If someone is a problem, then ban em. Simple. But alls you gave me was the standard form answer, to a question I didnt ask.

Posting on ATS is a privilege. It has never been otherwise. The nature of your statement suggests a gross misconception on your part regarding what's going on here.

There is no “right to post on ATS”, but sadly, some members act that way, and in doing so interfere with the privilege other members are supposed to be able to enjoy.

As for my answers being standard form, feel free to show me the original form.

That would be the first I've seen of such a thing.





P.S. While we may play the “two cats in a shoebox” routine in this thread and elsewhere, and while I love a fiery debate more than the next guy, I suspect if we were discussing this over some cold ones, we'd probably give each other a big guy-hug when we were done.


Relax, man, it's going to be okay. Oh, and I love your avatar.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 06:29 AM
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Uhh...like...who? Do you have a list?


I could list a number of members whom I have not seen post in forever. All good contributers in my book too... but i guess its expected that one would move on.

been thinking about it myself frankly, but ATS is more fun that work, so until then....



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 07:08 AM
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spliff4020 - First of all, if you have such distaste for ATS and it's direction, I will very happily show you the virtual door. You seem to think this place is simply being primped for a sale. That is extremely offensive to myself, to SkepticOverlord, to Springer, and to our huge team of staff who spend a great deal of their time online.

ATS expands through the requests of the membership; we are here for them which has probably been said by us hundreds of times although you obviously haven't noticed.

It seems everyday is a new post explaining what we are and are not "allowed" to do.

Hmmm..... I can see Springer's excellent and very well-recepted post about political trolling and baiting on ATS. This was unsurprisingly not taken with pleasure by pretty much every pain-in-the-ass on ATS, while we received a plethora of Thank You's from members who really wanted this to come sooner than it did from official mouthes.

Without order, this board would have died years ago. Order is needed to keep a system running smoothly. If YOU think we are a police state, get lost! We are the largest community of our kind, moderation is necessary to curb the trouble-makers and keep this place suitable for our wide ranging audience.

I think what the staff fails to realize is that while its their board, its NOTHING with out us.

Okay, how many times have we said this. Open your eyes. Nothing without you, every new feature we create is in response to what the community asks for.

What the admistration (I think) just doesnt get, is that the majority of the people dont want to post there(PTS).

ATS is about talking conspiracies, PTS is about talking politics. If I had MY way, PTS wouldn't exist, and all political discussion would be trashed from ATS. However, due to requests from the community, they wanted ATS to expand and allow for political chit-chat, so we GAVE it.

Dont give me a line about how they cant be there all the time, either.

Everyone on this website's staff do this as a hobby mate. We all have real lives to tend to.

The thought of keepin ATS strictly for conspiricies is just wrong.

Hence we have BTS, PTS and ATSnn. All of which comes from the request of our community, for our community.

PTS is lame and dead. Why not just make a new forum on ATS for politics.

Ahem... ATS is not for political discussion, PTS is!

ban the jerks who swear and threaten, fine the sh*t out of thread hijackers and leave it at that.

We do, every single day we deal with these kind of people and in the quietest of fashion so that the public does not have to worry about it and have their time here interrupted. You've been circumventing the swear censors in this tread, at your own request, you should be banned then I guess.

The powers that be seem to think they are helping the board. Theyre not. Theyre killing it.

Killing it? Really, is that why we have had continued incremental growth every single year? We must be doing something really really wrong then if more and more people come here very month?

Simon wants to make the board a news only forum, obtain huge numbers so someone like FOX or MSN takes note, makes him offer and hes rich!

I'm already rich enough mate. This is a message board, not a news forum. ATSnn is our little news portal project, which we created AGAIN for the budding newscasters among us. I have no intention at all to sell ATS and it won't be!

You seem to have such a dislike for AboveTopSecret.com because you can't get YOUR way. It is threads like this which create board drama; members who are ungrateful for what we try to give them. I think you should pack your virtual suitcase, and find somewhere more suited to your level of thinking. There are plenty of boards out there with little to no moderation.... no wonder they all die off! Perhaps you could give them some words of wisdom.

[edit on 31-8-2005 by SimonGray]



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 07:54 AM
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To follow up on my good friend's comments...

First and foremost, as Simon says: ATS is not for sale. And there not any considerations or plans to do so. This site has turned into a passion for the three partners/firends, and at this point it would be like selling our souls to have someone else take it over.

Second, end-of-summer is always a slow time across the Internet as more important offline things take priority. But still, this time last year we'd be marveling at an average of over 2,000 posts a day.

Third, and very important, ATS is a site devoted to the discussion of conspiracy theory and other "alternative topics". In a myriad of ways, politics is deeply involved in conspiracies and scandals, so we certainly have no intent to remove the discussion of politically-inspired conspiracies from ATS. [h]However, intense attacks on the political ideologies of members, at the expense of important topics has spiraled out of control. If we are to remain a valuable resource for the consideration of conspiracy topics, we must control this unsavory online phenomenon. There will be some adjustment period as people realign how and where they post... this combined with renewed activity in September will see a huge new traffic pattern.

These cycles of "ATS isn't what it used to be" occur every so often, and they're very normal in the life, growth, and evolution of any community, online or offline. And I say good. If we always remain "what we were," we'll never become what we could be. Not that we won't make mistakes along they way -- but I hope we do make mistakes as that is the only real way to learn what works best for the huge community that is ATS/BTS/PTS.

And finally, one thing that continually causes frustration and consternation among all levels of ATS staff... why do a small category of members expend more energy complaining about why "ATS isn't what it used it be" rather than making posts that reflect "what ATS used to be" in their mind? It's one of those grand mysteries of the universe we may never know.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 08:57 AM
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Like my good friends/partners S.O. and Simon have said, this is a simple thing... If the AboveTopSecret we have going now isn't to your taste, please STOP YOUR OWN PAIN.

I'd hate to think we were causing anyone undue stress and angst. REALLY.

From time to time I review threads from WAY back, and it's hillarious how many times this EXACT SAME conversation has happened.

Like S.O. said, about every quarter (that's 3 months) a new wave of "ATS isn't as good as it used to be" posts come up. Staff and members alike are subject to this phenom.

It's simple, we respond to the community, the community seems to respond right back in kind, we continue to grow like a weed and it just gets better every time.

Let me bring the ATS IS NOT FOR SALE point home so there will be a record of 100% of the ownership making this statement.

It would be like selling my best friend or something, it's just NOT going to happen folks.

Springer...



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