Voting Fraud - Long Threads, History, 2004 (Yet Again) & Media Lockdown

Originally posted by Springer
The FACTS are that your propaganda is a LIE and a deception. The FACTS are that Gore was NEVER ahead statewide.

The FACTS are that this whole bloddy issue is pile of B.S. that those of us who actually LIVE IN THE U.S. and actually VOTE here are getting tired of hearing because it serves no purpose other than to devide the greatest nation on Earth. THOSE are the FACTS.

At some stage, someone else will have a go at trying to convey to you that you seem unable to distinguish your opinion from facts. It's not my job any more.

This is a government conspiracies forum.

It is not a cover-up forum.

Its expressed aim is to deny ignorance, not to deny the fact that the incumbent government of the US is corrupt.

I am sorry to disappoint you, but you do not speak for ATS members or American citizenry at all. And, if you care to read the black box voting topics here on ATS (there are 10-12 of them at last count) you will see there are far more members very concerned about the corruptibility of the Diebold machines than there are in your denial mode.

Your issue of who gets to vote in US elections is an ironic one, as your vote counts for nothing at all next time around.

If you are tired of hearing about it, that's your position. Go therefore to read those things that are of interest to you personally, and leave this subject matter to the members that actually care. You have said that you don't, therefore by your admission there is no further requirement for your participation at all.

Thanks for expressing your view on the most recent article I posted up, even though you didn't fully read or comprehend it.

Springer....are you suggesting that there are no problems with the electronic voting machines? The way I have seen it covered surely suggests that something is amiss with this voting technology.

Masked Avatar... Killing them with logic again...
Your emotional restraint in the face, "USA greatest nation on earth, love it or will stomp you!", bubba-ism is refreshing and inspirational.
Keep fighting the good fight.


Everything is permissable

Well, yeah, of course I have logic. Logic draws sane conclusions...

Unlike the desperate running for cover Diebold and the corrupt Bush administration...



Diebold Warns on Electronic Voting Papers
Wednesday October 29, 8:24 pm ET
By Rachel Konrad, Associated Press Writer
Activists Won't Remove Diebold Papers They Say Raise Electronic Voting Questions From Web Sites

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) -- Despite lawsuit threats from one of the nation's largest electronic voting machine suppliers, some activists are refusing to remove from Web sites internal company documents that they claim raise serious security questions.

Diebold Inc. sent "cease and desist" letters after the documents and internal e-mails, allegedly stolen by a hacker, were distributed on the Internet. Recipients of the letters included computer programmers, students at colleges including Swarthmore and at least one Internet provider.

Most of the 13,000 pages of documents are little more than banal employee e-mails, routine software manuals and old voter record files. But several items appear to raise security concerns.

Diebold refused to discuss the documents' contents. Company spokesman Mike Jacobsen said the fact that the company sent the cease-and-desist letters does not mean the documents are authentic -- or give credence to advocates who claim lax Diebold security could allow hackers to rig machines.

"We're cautioning anyone from drawing wrong or incomplete conclusions about any of those documents or files purporting to be authentic," Jacobsen said.

But the activists say the mere fact that Diebold was hacked shows that the company's technology cannot be trusted.... (more at the link).

This is a story that will not go away, at all. It is corruption of the highest order, on a par with illegal war mongering and war profiteering.

biz.yahoo.com...

Like you, I also releive myself of te responsibility to TRY to show YOU the difference between PROPAGANDA (your opinion in this case) and FACTS...

Considering you have NO STAKE in this country's vote I wonder why it seems to be your personal mission to spread such tripe?

Whatever, END GAME... IGNORE *ON*

P...
m...

I advise everyone to look into watching a little documentary called Unprecedented. It's a great story about the 2000 election, especially in florida where several thousand voters were barred from voting for NO REASON, although several alternative reasons were made up as to why they couldn't vote. This seems like a problem with electronic voting to me.

I find Bev Harris's work, covered at scoop.co.nz before anyone in the US would pick it up, and then in the Black Box Voting book, to be exhaustive in presenting the factualities of machine failure and corruption, and systematic denial and abuse of power by the manufacturers and electoral authorities.

That it is so alarming does not make it untrue. Quite the opposite, but the truth hurts.

On the matter of discerning facts from propaganda, I will leave readers with this example. It contains several voiting machine error and fraud FACTS, for sure, but it ties them all into the political motivations and purchasability of the new California gubernator.

It is certainly propaganda. It is also bloody funny:

www.toostupidtobepresident.com...

This is such a good analysis of the 2000 election night and the material that never reached TV. It's worth reading every word. Global Election Systems (Diebold) is a company that is culpable in its supposed 'negligence' and needs to be taken out of every electoral process everywhere.

Read this, it's very interesting for propellerheads/techos as well as people reading about the Florida theft for the first time.


www.scoop.co.nz...









[Edited on 13-11-2003 by MaskedAvatar]

There once was a crooked man, who walked a crooked mile along the crooked city. And for all those who knew of him, felt such remorse and pitty- Ohhh the extent he went to, to change the votes from few to many..

And that's about all I'm gonna say..ever

The black box site is up and covering a number of new findings.


www.blackboxvoting.com...

16 DEC 2003, Seattle WA - This is of national interest. Bev Harris, author of Black Box Voting: Ballot Tampering in the 21st Century and Andy Stephenson, a democratic candidate for Washington secretary of state, have uncovered new holes in the electoral system in King County and in as many as 14 additional states.

These security breaches affect both the optical scan systems (fill-in-the-dot or draw-the-line) and touch screen voting systems, and may also indicate significant security problems with absentee voting procedures....

....Whereas electronic voting concerns have focused on complex issues like cryptographic security and computer source code, the new security flaws uncovered by Harris and Stephenson are more serious and also easier to explain.

This information affects four counties in Washington State and locations in Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Kentucky, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Texas, Maryland and Virginia....



Bev Harris gave a second buzzflash interview this month....

www.buzzflash.com...

BUZZFLASH: Explain the implications of Diebold withdrawing its lawsuit and how this impacts you?

BEV HARRIS: First, the impact of Diebold's abusive use of copyright law did very serious damage to my organization and me. This triggered a shutdown of BlackBoxVoting.org, which lasted 30 days and derailed activism to monitor the California Recall Election, stripping away our activism base as it muted my voice on the issue. It nearly decapitated blackboxvoting.org.

Diebold's withdrawal from the lawsuit was good; now Diebold should consider withdrawing from the elections industry. Even in baseball, you only get three strikes. At what point do we say to this company, "Sorry, I just can't trust you anymore."

Now, as for the impact of their withdrawal from the lawsuit on me and what I will do next, let me explain.

I was sent the Diebold memos by a leaker on September 5, during the middle of the night. On September 6, I delved into them and didn't come up for air until two days later. During that time, I read 7,000 memos and made 300 pages of notes divided into five categories. The impact of Diebold's withdrawal from the lawsuit is that I have arranged to make this body of work public. Until now, aside from placing a copy in the hands of someone who could disseminate the work were I to become unavailable, I have done nothing with them.

If the Diebold FTP files are in some ways similar to the Pentagon Papers, the memos are analogous to the Watergate Tapes. And whether or not issue is "as big as Watergate" -- it is actually more important than Watergate.... (more at link)


So, the Bush admin orchestrates events in Iraq to ensure it looks like something useful has happened

People at ATS debate whether any other candidate can oust Bush at an election late 2004

Your basic electoral rights are eroded, your vote counts for nothing, and some of you don't pay attention.


Have yourself a merry little Christmas. There is no election 2004! The Bush gang must go.

[Edited on 23-12-2003 by MaskedAvatar]

Democrats were mad because they were too stupid to use the old voting machines correctly.
Now they're mad because they don't know how to use the new ones either.

Good stuff!!

Originally posted by SevenZeroOne
Democrats were mad because they were too stupid to use the old voting machines correctly.
Now they're mad because they don't know how to use the new ones either.

This is slightly below the average standard of comments in the US Political Mudpit. This isn't the Mudpit forum.

Any legitimate comments on the new material raised by Bev Harris? The performance of Diebold for one - technically and legally? I'm not generally welcoming uninformed comments here.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

Originally posted by SevenZeroOne
Democrats were mad because they were too stupid to use the old voting machines correctly.
Now they're mad because they don't know how to use the new ones either.

This is slightly below the average standard of comments in the US Political Mudpit. This isn't the Mudpit forum.

Any legitimate comments on the new material raised by Bev Harris? The performance of Diebold for one - technically and legally? I'm not generally welcoming uninformed comments here.

It was just a joke, bud. If it had been against republicans we all know you would'nt have said anything. Talk about double-standards.
Ease up and take it for what it is...a harmless joke.

Originally posted by SevenZeroOne

It was just a joke, bud. If it had been against republicans we all know you would'nt have said anything. Talk about double-standards.
Ease up and take it for what it is...a harmless joke.

No problem!

Actually I may have said something if it was just Bush-bashing and not on the topic of the corruptibility of the current crop of machines! Check out the tone of the whole thread.

And, any comments on Diebold, and how the whole thing looks? Odell (CEO) supporting Bush in Ohio and committing the election there will be delivered to him? Diebold claiming copyright violation to close down the blackbox site during the California recall, then withdrawing because it knew it had no case? It's all pretty interesting stuff, don't you think?

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

Originally posted by SevenZeroOne

It was just a joke, bud. If it had been against republicans we all know you would'nt have said anything. Talk about double-standards.
Ease up and take it for what it is...a harmless joke.

No problem!

Actually I may have said something if it was just Bush-bashing and not on the topic of the corruptibility of the current crop of machines! Check out the tone of the whole thread.

And, any comments on Diebold, and how the whole thing looks? Odell (CEO) supporting Bush in Ohio and committing the election there will be delivered to him? Diebold claiming copyright violation to close down the blackbox site during the California recall, then withdrawing because it knew it had no case? It's all pretty interesting stuff, don't you think?

Is this directed as a question to me?

I suppose you're vaguely insinuating I'm some kind of die-hard bush fan because I made a joke not in line with your political beliefs, no?
I can assure you I'm not. But I do have eyes, and a brain, and what I've observed in this thread and forum as a whole is anything but open-minded, fair, responsible, or intuitive.

Here, to make it up to you, I'll tell a dirty joke about Pres Dubya, k?

"Bush walks into a bar..."



[Edited on 23-12-2003 by SevenZeroOne]

This does not suprise me much. I think Bush did not want a replay of last election where he had to count on family to make it happen for him. With the technology he figures no one will be able to trace to where exactly the problem was or even show that there was a problem. He knows by now that if he has to count on his own merit there is no way he will be back in office.

Originally posted by MuseAndChimera
This does not suprise me much. I think Bush did not want a replay of last election where he had to count on family to make it happen for him. With the technology he figures no one will be able to trace to where exactly the problem was or even show that there was a problem. He knows by now that if he has to count on his own merit there is no way he will be back in office.

And you feel OK about that?

This is the second biggest cover-up involving the incumbent administration, after 9/11. It strikes to the core of an American's fundamental right of choice, and yet there are people who want to bury it in party politics (look above).

Some would rate this as more significant to the well-being of a once great nation than even the corrupt agenda behind the Iraq War as constructed by the PNAC-thinking neo-cons who infiltrated through the Bush admin.

Anyway that is this ATS member's perception. It doesn't matter to some that their vote does not count, and not everyone exercises that democratic right anyway, so it could make little difference in a land of apathy. Welcome USA, totalitarian style.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
And you feel OK about that?

This is the second biggest cover-up involving the incumbent administration, after 9/11. It strikes to the core of an American's fundamental right of choice, and yet there are people who want to bury it in party politics (look above).

No I do not feel ok about this whole thing. I am sadden by the fact that so much power is given to the might buck.
But I am most sadden by the fact that a country that use to look out for its people now place so much power and strength in a company that can only do good for who is every paying for it.
At some point ALL OF AMERICA must wake up and take a active roll and say we will not tolerate this no more. But until then it will feel and be like our vote does not matter.

[Edited on 23-12-2003 by MuseAndChimera]

'Paper trail' of votes omitted

By Jim McElhatton
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

A request that Maryland's new touch-screen voting network include printouts might have come too late because state officials already have signed a $55.6 million contract that includes no such backup system.

"That was not part of the contract price we negotiated with Maryland," said Mark Radke, director of marketing for Diebold Election Systems Inc., a Diebold subsidiary. "The voter verification [paper trail] was not discussed."

More at this link (published today):

washingtontimes.com...


Those specifying the contract are equally culpable to those bidding on it. We know Diebold is totally corrupt. Why the electoral commission of the state of Maryland?

Random *bump*

Anyone know how many inauditable, corruptible, malfunctioning electronic voting machines are becoming readied for another attempt at election theft?

The US is not a democracy. It is a corrupt feudal system.

Diebold has promised a favourable election result to Bush. But Diebold is a manufacturer of electronic voting machines. Maybe the majority of ATS members never heard of them - who knows?