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F-22 /thoughts and opinion about this article.

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posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 05:02 PM
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I've watched videos from HUDs of several planes where you can SEE the G meter hit 11, and in one case 12, and the pilots were clearly heard grunting, and in at least one talking still.


I want to see these videos...If you have links.


Seekerof: I did not know that they had the new G suits. But after reading on them it just helps with the fatigue of the turn. which probably means the pilot can go in and out of turns quicker without neding time to catch their breath Just because they don't have to flex all their muscles. I didn't see anything on being able to take more G's




posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 05:08 PM
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I originally saw them on a tv show a couple years back, but I'll see if they've been posted on the net when I have time to look for them. Maybe tonight after I get home.



posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 06:39 PM
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I think 9G is the highest sustained g-force that humans can take, but I believe people can experience higher g-loadings for brief periods and remain conscious.



posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by Timcouchfanclub
Seekerof: I did not know that they had the new G suits. But after reading on them it just helps with the fatigue of the turn. which probably means the pilot can go in and out of turns quicker without neding time to catch their breath Just because they don't have to flex all their muscles. I didn't see anything on being able to take more G's


Erm, the link and quote I specifically gave mentions that they not only help with fatigue, they do help the pilot in high G maneuvering environments. Might want to re-read it again, because your simplifying this new designed Raptor G-suit into an "only helps fatigue" category is mistaken. It is not called an ANTI G SUIT for nothing, Timcouchfanclub.

ATAGS is only worn by F/A-22 pilots, for a reason.



Meanwhile, airplanes have gotten even faster and more adept at maneuvering. The increased agility of such advanced models as the F/A-22 Raptor means that a pilot will be subjected to higher g forces in sharper dives and turns than ever before. Extremely rapid acceleration means that G-LOC may come on virtually instantaneously, without any of the useful warning signs such as grayout. Thus, the well-dressed Raptor pilot will don several new pieces of gear. A face mask called the Combat Edge forces pressurized air into the pilot’s lungs to make the grunting maneuver more effective and less tiring. And the old “speed jeans” have been updated as the Advanced Technology Anti-G Suit, or ATAGS, which completely envelops the legs and buttocks. A pilot wearing both the Combat Edge and ATAGS can withstand rates of g onset faster than 5 g per second.

The War Against Gravity
More here:
Advanced Technologies Anti G Suit (ATAGS) + F/A-22

Other notable mentions:


Pearson told Air Force Magazine, “We have cleared the entire [flight] envelope out to Mach 2 ... up to about 60,000 feet” and at nine Gs of maneuvering.


Further on in the article, mention of sustaining 9G turns:


The F/A-22 has been tested to high angles of attack, at sustained nine-G turns, and has turned in a staggering performance in acceleration and speed. It will easily outmaneuver any other airplane in the world, Pearson said. Thanks to its stealth, it likely won’t have to.

The F/A-22 Force Forms Up

Anyhow, I know for a fact that the Raptor can perform a sustained 6G turn all day long. Are you, or anyone else, aware of any other current serial produced fighter that can perform sustained 6G or 9G turns at high speed? Let me know, because as far as I am aware of, there are none. Key word here is sustained. A number of aircraft can do 6-9+ Gs, sustaining them is another matter all together.






seekerof

[edit on 29-8-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 07:06 PM
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I remember seen a video of a new G-suit that uses a liquid instead of pressurized air, and the guy was able to talk normal without needed to try and get blood to his head, he could talk and think normally at 12 g's.



posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by Timcouchfanclub



There was recently a show on discovery that took the Raptor from conception in the 50's with other types of aircraft, to the YF -22 and 23, and the changes that have been made to the F-22 since Lockheed was awarded the contract.


I saw that show also. It was very interesting. You could also tell how badly they were kissing up to the plane. The way they made it sound is that there is not a single flaw in the plane. Sounds to good to be true to me.

It was one F-22 against eight F-15's. One of the F-15 pilots said he thought he had a visual and then lost him. The next thing he knew the raptor had buzzed his canopy. But what happens when the raptor fights another stealth plane. It will go to WVR. It should make for an Interesting case


The F-15s were all flown by Raptor pilots no less. And the guy flying the Raptor said it was "almost too easy" when refering to his kills.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
The longer the wavelength of the radar the shorter its range, if you want a radar that can detect stealth know that it will have about a 20 mile range.



Thats not strictly true , as the serbs used old P-12`s to track an F-117a using the `black hole` method.

One thing is interseting - when teh nighthawk was shot down - who can explain teh bullet holes in the airframe? - the angle and position suggests an A2A shot.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 08:14 AM
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Thats not strictly true , as the serbs used old P-12`s to track an F-117a using the `black hole` method.


And you have proof for this?



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 08:40 AM
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Who really cares about the G-force this thing can take.....As of right now the chances of this plane getting into a Within Visual Range fight with a Sukhoi are as good as me winning the Lotto. So for now unless the Su-37 has some crazy technology that no one knows about it is a BVR fight and that is what the F-22 is king of right now.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 10:43 AM
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www.vectorsite.net...




The Sukhoi OKB has had plenty of ideas for next-generation fighter aircraft, for example a single-jet lightweight with the general configuration of the Su-27M but about half the weight, in the class of the US F-16 fighter. Sukhoi has displayed a model of this concept, designated "S-54", at international airshows in recent years. More significantly, the organization developed a new experimental prototype aircraft, the forward-swept-wing Sukhoi "S-37 Berkut (Golden Eagle)".

In 1983, the Sukhoi OKB began work on a heavy fighter designated the "S-32", with a forward swept wing, as a parallel effort to work being done by the MiG OKB for next-generation fighters for the 1990s. The Soviet government decided to emphasize the MiG efforts, but allowed the S-32 work to continue on an experimental basis.

With the collapse of the USSR and the following economic woes, work on the S-32 had to be suspended, but as the Sukhoi OKB began to make money from foreign sales Mikhail Simonov decided to continue the project with company funds. Due to security concerns, the S-32 became the "S-37". The type made its first flight in September 1997, with Igor Votintsev at the controls. The S-37 has been run through a sequence of flight tests, with the Sukhoi OKB receiving some state funding for the effort.

While details of the S-37 remain classified, it has flown in public demonstrations. It is of size and general configuration similar to that of late-model Su-27 variants, though of course noticeably different with its forward-swept wings. Although forward-swept wings have traditionally had problems due to excessive structural loads, the S-37's wings use advanced composite materials to give them the necessary strength.



The S-37 has a wingspan of 16.7 meters (54.7 feet), a length of 23.8 meters (78 feet), and a normal takeoff weight of (56,600 pounds). It is powered by two Aviadvigatel "D-30FG" afterburning turbofans, similar to those used in the MiG-31M, with 252.1 kN (25,700 kgp / 34,200 lbf) afterburning thrust each. It is an inherently unstable aircraft that is kept in controlled flight using a fly-by-wire system, something of a tacit admission that the dynamically unstable approach has its virtues. Interestingly, the Berkut is so large that its wings fold to allow it to fit into Russian hangars.

* In the spring of 2001, Sukhoi officials announced a collaborative program involving Sukhoi; all of Russia's aviation research institutes; and many of Russia's aviation industries to develop an operational next-generation fighter, under the "Future Air Complex for Frontal Air Forces (Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Frontovoi Aviatsyi / PAK-FA)" program. A collaboration between the MiG and Yakovlev concerns also developed a proposal.

In late April 2002, the Russian government announced that the Sukhoi-led group would build the PAK-FA, though the MiG-led group would be given some share in the program. Sukhoi later announced that the aircraft has the company designation of "T-50". The T-50 will be somewhere between the size of the MiG-29 and the Su-27. It is expected to compete with the American F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) in export sales, and eventually probably in air combat. The schedule for the T-50 is very ambitious, with initial flight of a prototype in 2006 and introduction to service in 2010.

Simonov stated that the new Sukhoi fighter will be a multirole aircraft, and would be able to operate from aircraft carriers as well. Sukhoi officials insist that the S-37 is not a prototype for the PAK-FA. They emphasize that the S-37 is strictly an experimental platform, but add that its technology will be leveraged into the new design. Sukhoi has also engaged in discussions with India on a partnership to help develop the PAK-FA. The Sukhoi group has provided India with data on the S-37, and has obtained India's requirements for the new aircraft.




Accroding to this, the S-37 is not even into production, and is bineg flown in test platform. This would put it at least 8-10 years behind the F-22 as far as production, no? Now, seems the PKA-FA is what was devoloped as a counter to the F-22.




While the MiG OKB was working in a "step forward step back" fashion on second-generation MiG-29 concepts in the late 1980s and through the 1990s, they were also working in fits and starts on a true next-generation fighter under the "Multirole Tactical Fighter (Mnogofunktsionahll'nyy Frontovoi Istrebitel / MFI)" program.

The MFI program had been initiated in 1986 to counter Western efforts to develop next-generation fighters, such as the US "Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF)", which would become the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor. The MiG MFI design team was originally led by Grigoriy Sedov and later by Yuri Vorontnikov.

Initial MFI prototype construction began in 1989, with the prototype, the "MiG 1.44", finally rolled out in early 1994. It performed taxi trials later that year, and then the program finally bogged down to a halt and remained in darkness for the next several years. Rumors circulated in the West about the secret "MiG 1.42", along with speculations about its features.

However, work on the MFI was only dormant, not dead, and the type was finally unveiled in January 1999. The designation was announced as the "MiG 1.44", the MiG 1.42 code apparently having been only for the overall development program.



The MiG 1.44 looks something like a child of the MiG-29 and the Eurofighter Typhoon. The MiG 1.44 shares the Typhoon's canard layout, an unusual configuration by Russian standards, and the twin underslung engines. In general style, however, it clearly says "I am a MiG!", and by no means a Eurofighter copy.

MIKOYAN MIG 1.44:

A group of Russian industries led by Sukhoi and another group led by MiG and Yakovlev competed for the PAK-FA contract, and in late April 2002, the Russian government announced that the Sukhoi group had won the award. The government specified that MiG and Yakovlev would get workshares in the program, but the loss of the competition was still clearly a blow to MiG.

It may not have been a major blow. The VVS does not actually seem to be interested in procuring the PAK-FA in numbers any time soon, with upgrade of their existing aircraft remaining their top priority. Some observers believe the PAK-FA effort is being conducted by the Russian government to keep their aircraft industry up to date and attract foreign investment. The MiG organization may have lost this battle, but it is by no means certain they have lost the war.




And here is a little more information......

www.deagel.com...

US has the technology delivered, not in development. It will be intereting to see what the outcome is seesm it will not be ready for testing till 2006 and rolled out in 2010. I am sure in the next 5 years we will see the F-22 B, with upgrades to counter if any.


[edit on 30-8-2005 by esdad71]



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 12:59 PM
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Seekerof, man, not again
, you have a trauma.........


about stealth, we must consider that there are other factors, stealth tech was designed to defeat the X band frequencies -but also not in the fantastic way that some guys thinks- , now the f15s operate X freq, only that band is aviable in the system, the russians fighter radars operate in general in 2 bands, X, and L both in multimode search/targeting, this last is considered as low frequency, with a range of 1-2Ghz

actually the american fighters are more vulnerable against stealth tech than russian ones, and look with the sooo "great" AESA and other stuffs....

the same you will find a huge bunch of ground russian radars using A-J bands...

you dont need cellular phones, ionesphere reflection, etc...., only your radars with new software

there are mistakes and mistakes in the technology evolution, just a case, the famous F100 high bypass turbofan, when it was revealed all the guys said "the best engine", "is the future", "we are ahead in tech" etc...., now the f22 is using low bypass turbofans......what a joke



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by grunt2
also the f22 60º isnt turn is max AoA, neither sustained.....


No it's sustained. I saw a movie with F-22 pointing nose up in 60 degrees and still flying FORWARD for a long time. It was posted also here on ATS try to find it.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 02:22 PM
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i have saw the video, if i remember well werent 60º AoA, but maybe im wrong, also was at veeeery low speed, with TVCs even the Orao can do that at such speed


[edit on 30-8-2005 by grunt2]



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 05:01 PM
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Read my sig!..."like clubbing baby seals."


The Raptor will be THE most feared fighter in the world for the next decade and a half at least.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 05:09 PM
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yeah, yeah , yeah, go america, go.....



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 07:33 PM
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Do you really think pilots wouldn't say the raptor is the eight wonder?? they have to say so to make people think that all the budget spent is the raptor is well used because, well, there will be four or five planes but, jesus, they are impressive! And they are not really free to say what they really think, their job is in game and if they even try to say "well, the raptor is good but just a little more than the eagle" they will leave their actual job faster than a SR71
So, please, stop talking about pilots and all that, ok? they say what the people who pay them want them to say. I'm so tired of reading all that stuff... at least the article that started the post, even if it was outdated, was a fresh opinion that tried to say that not all glitters are gold


[edit on 30/8/05 by Chemapeich]



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 07:40 PM
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Yeah, let's trust politicians more. Because we know how honest THEY are.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 08:00 PM
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To address the actual Riccioni nonsense, it's just that, nonsense. His prattling on about fuel fraction is completely wrong, because the F-22 does in fact have a much higher fuel fraction than the F-15. It's sufficiently high to give it a tactically useful range in supercruise. Same with the t/w ratio, his claims about that just don't match any of the facts which you can easily go out and verify. Same with all the other stuff, which at this point has become amazingly tedious to talk about.



posted on Aug, 30 2005 @ 11:59 PM
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yeah, yeah , yeah, go america, go.....


The truth is tricky thing, either you like it or not, but nevertheless the fact remains that its still the truth.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by Chemapeich
Do you really think pilots wouldn't say the raptor is the eight wonder?? they have to say so to make people think that all the budget spent is the raptor is well used because, well, there will be four or five planes but, jesus, they are impressive! And they are not really free to say what they really think, their job is in game and if they even try to say "well, the raptor is good but just a little more than the eagle" they will leave their actual job faster than a SR71
So, please, stop talking about pilots and all that, ok? they say what the people who pay them want them to say. I'm so tired of reading all that stuff... at least the article that started the post, even if it was outdated, was a fresh opinion that tried to say that not all glitters are gold


[edit on 30/8/05 by Chemapeich]


Sorry to destroy your argument, but what the pilots said was CONFIRMED in ACTUAL EXERCISES. OVER AND OVER, one or two Raptors would destroy 8+ F-15's - not only that, but the F-15's were flown by OTHER RAPTOR PILOTS who were trying to EXPLOIT their own intimate knowladge of the Raptor. Never once was a Raptor shot down. Every F-15 was shot down in a matter of minutes.

So don't give me this crap about "a little bit better then an F-15" because it is litterally exponentially better. A single Raptor can kill as many enemy aircraft as it holds missles without so much as a threat in air to air combat.



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