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Is John still alive?

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posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 10:51 PM
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I Have read the passages ofMat. 16;28, Mark 9;1, Luke 9;27, where Jesus says (living bible)"some of you standing here will live to see the kingdom of GOD arive". In these three books there are similarities, but these verses are eerirly simular. It is even reitterated in the book of Morman 3 Nephi 28;6-7. Does anyone think that there really are people(apositals maby) who knew Jesus, still alive?




posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 11:06 PM
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No, I do not think they are alive in the sense in which you imply,

here is the verse in many versions, see if it helps you.


Mat 16:28

(ACV) Truly I say to you, there are some of those who stand here, who will, no, not taste of death, until they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(ALT) "Positively, I say to you*, [there] are some having stood here who will by no means taste of death until they see the Son of Humanity coming in His kingdom."

(AUV-NT) It is true when I tell you, some of those standing here will not die before they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom.”



(ANT) Dit verseker Ek julle: Daar is party van dié wat hier staan wat beslis nie sal sterwe voordat hulle die Seun van die mens in sy koninkryk sien kom het nie."

(AOT) Voorwaar Ek sê vir julle, daar is sommige van die wat hier staan, wat die dood sekerlik nie sal smaak voordat hulle die Seun van die mens in sy koninkryk sien kom het nie.

(AOV) Voorwaar Ek sê vir julle, daar is sommige van die wat hier staan, wat die dood sekerlik nie sal smaak voordat hulle die Seun van die mens in sy koninkryk sien kom het nie.

(ASV) Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(BBE) Truly I say to you, There are some of those here who will not have a taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(BCN) Yn wir, rwy'n dweud wrthych, y mae rhai o'r sawl sy'n sefyll yma na phrofant flas marwolaeth nes iddynt weld Mab y Dyn yn dyfod yn ei deyrnas."

(VW-Edition) Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.

(Bishops) Ueryly I say vnto you, there be some standyng here, which shall not taste of death, tyll they see the sonne of man come in his kyngdome.

(CEV) I promise you that some of those standing here will not die before they see the Son of Man coming with his kingdom.

(CENT) Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

(Complete Apostles' Bible) Assuredly I say to you, there are some standing here who will by no means taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

(CUV-S) 我实在告诉你们,站在这里的,有人在没尝死味以前必看见人子降临在他的国里。」

(CUV-T) 我實在告訴你們,站在這裡的,有人在沒嘗死味以前必看見人子降臨在他的國裡。」

(Dansk) Sandelig siger jeg eder, der er nogle af dem, som stå her, der ingenlunde skulle smage Døden, førend de se Menneskesønnen komme i sit Rige."

(DRB) Amen I say to you, there are some of them that stand here, that shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(DSV) Voorwaar zeg Ik u: Er zijn sommigen van die hier staan, dewelke den dood niet smaken zullen, totdat zij den Zoon des mensen zullen hebben zien komen in Zijn Koninkrijk.

(EMTV) Assuredly I say to you, there are some standing here who will by no means taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

(ESV) Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

(FDB) En vérité, je vous dis: Il y en a quelques-uns de ceux qui sont ici présents, qui ne goûteront point la mort jusqu'à ce qu'ils aient vu le fils de l'homme venant dans son royaume.

(FLS) Je vous le dis en vérité, quelques-uns de ceux qui sont ici ne mourront point, qu'ils n'aient vu le Fils de l'homme venir dans son règne.

(FPR) Totisesti minä sanon teille: tässä seisovien joukossa on muutamia, jotka eivät maista kuolemaa, ennenkuin näkevät Ihmisen Pojan tulevan kuninkuudessaan."

(GB) Verely I say vnto you, there bee some of them that stande here, which shall not taste of death, till they haue seene the Sonne of man come in his kingdome.

(GEB) Wahrlich, ich sage euch: Es sind etliche von denen, die hier stehen, welche den Tod nicht schmecken werden, bis sie den Sohn des Menschen haben kommen sehen in seinem Reiche.

(Geneva) Verely I say vnto you, there bee some of them that stande here, which shall not taste of death, till they haue seene the Sonne of man come in his kingdome.

(GLB) Wahrlich ich sage euch: Es stehen etliche hier, die nicht schmecken werden den Tod, bis daß sie des Menschen Sohn kommen sehen in seinem Reich.

(GNB) I assure you that there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Son of Man come as King."

(GNT) ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, εἰσί τινες τῶν ὧδε ἑστηκότων, οἵτινες οὐ μὴ γεύσωνται θανάτου ἕως ἂν ἴδωσι τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐν τῇ βασιλείᾳ αὐτοῦ.

(GNT+) αμην281 HEB λεγω3004 V-PAI-1S υμιν5213 P-2DP εισιν1526 V-PXI-3P τινες5100 X-NPM ωδε5602 ADV εστωτες2476 V-RAP-NPM οιτινες3748 R-NPM ου3756 PRT-N μη3361 PRT-N γευσωνται1089 V-ADS-3P θανατου2288 N-GSM εως2193 CONJ αν302 PRT ιδωσιν1492 V-2AAS-3P τον3588 T-ASM υιον5207 N-ASM του3588 T-GSM ανθρωπου444 N-GSM ερχομενον2064 V-PNP-ASM εν1722 PREP τη3588 T-DSF βασιλεια932 N-DSF αυτου846 P-GSM

(GNT-TR) αμην λεγω υμιν εισιν τινες των ωδε εστηκοτων οιτινες ου μη γευσωνται θανατου εως αν ιδωσιν τον υιον του ανθρωπου ερχομενον εν τη βασιλεια αυτου

(GNT-TR+) αμην281 HEB λεγω3004 V-PAI-1S υμιν5213 P-2DP εισιν1526 V-PXI-3P τινες5100 X-NPM των3588 T-GPM ωδε5602 ADV εστηκοτων2476 V-RAP-GPM οιτινες3748 R-NPM ου3756 PRT-N μη3361 PRT-N γευσωνται1089 V-ADS-3P θανατου2288 N-GSM εως2193 CONJ αν302 PRT ιδωσιν1492 V-2AAS-3P τον3588 T-ASM υιον5207 N-ASM του3588 T-GSM ανθρωπου444 N-GSM ερχομενον2064 V-PNP-ASM εν1722 PREP τη3588 T-DSF βασιλεια932 N-DSF αυτου846 P-GSM

(GNT-V) αμην λεγω υμιν Aοτι εισιν τινες TSAτων ωδε Aεστωτων Bεστωτες TSεστηκοτων οιτινες ου μη γευσωνται θανατου εως αν ιδωσιν τον υιον του ανθρωπου ερχομενον εν τη βασιλεια αυτου

(GNT-WH+) αμην281 HEB λεγω3004 V-PAI-1S υμιν5213 P-2DP οτι3754 CONJ εισιν1526 V-PXI-3P τινες5100 X-NPM των3588 T-GPM ωδε5602 ADV εστωτων2476 V-RAP-GPM οιτινες3748 R-NPM ου3756 PRT-N μη3361 PRT-N γευσωνται1089 V-ADS-3P θανατου2288 N-GSM εως2193 CONJ αν302 PRT ιδωσιν1492 V-2AAS-3P τον3588 T-ASM υιον5207 N-ASM του3588 T-GSM ανθρωπου444 N-GSM ερχομενον2064 V-PNP-ASM εν1722 PREP τη3588 T-DSF βασιλεια932 N-DSF αυτου846 P-GSM

(G-NT-TR (Steph)+) αμην Verily 281 HEB λεγω I say 3004 V-PAI-1S υμιν unto you 5213 P-2DP εισιν There be 1526 V-PXI-3P τινες some 5100 X-NPM των the 3588 T-GPM ωδε here 5602 ADV εστηκοτων standing, 2476 V-RAP-GPM οιτινες which 3748 R-NPM ου 3756 PRT-N μη 3361 PRT-N γευσωνται taste 1089 V-ADS-3P θανατου of death 2288 N-GSM εως till 2193 CONJ αν 302 PRT ιδωσιν they see 1492 V-2AAS-3P τον 3588 T-ASM υιον Son 5207 N-ASM του 3588 T-GSM ανθρωπου of man 444 N-GSM ερχομενον coming 2064 V-PNP-ASM εν in 1722 PREP τη 3588 T-DSF βασιλεια kingdom 932 N-DSF αυτου . 846 P-GSM

(GW) I can guarantee this truth: Some people who are standing here will not die until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

(HCSB) I assure you: There are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

(HNV) Most certainly I tell you, there are some standing here who will in no way taste of death, until they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom."

(HOT)

(IBIS) Ketahuilah! Dari antara kalian di sini ada yang tidak akan mati, sebelum melihat Anak Manusia datang sebagai Raja."

(IRL) In verità io vi dico che alcuni di coloro che son qui presenti non gusteranno la morte, finché non abbian visto il Figliuol dell'uomo venire nel suo regno.

(ISV) Truly I tell you, some people standing here will not experience death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

(JPS)

(KJ2000) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, who shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(KJVCNT) Truthfully I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(KJV+TVM) Verily281 I say3004 [5719] unto you5213, There be1526 [5748] some5100 standing2476 [5761] here5602, which3748 shall1089 not3364 taste1089 [5667] of death2288, till302 2193 they see1492 [5632] the Son5207 of man444 coming2064 [5740] in1722 his846 kingdom932.

(KJV) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(KJV+) Verily281 I say3004 unto you,5213 There be1526 some5100 standing2476 here,5602 which3748 shall not3361 taste1089 of death,2288 till2193, 302 they see1492 the3588 Son5207 of man444 coming2064 in1722 his848 kingdom.932

(KJVA) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(KJVR) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(KKJV) 진실로 내가 너희에게 이르노니, 여기 서 있는 사람들 중에는 죽음을 맛보기 전에 사람의 아들이 자기 왕권을 가지고 오는 것을 볼 자들도 있느니라, 하시니라.

(LBLA) En verdad os digo que hay algunos de los que están aquí que no probarán la muerte hasta que vean al Hijo del Hombre venir en su reino.

(LONT) Indeed, I say to you, some of those who are present, shall not taste death, until they see the Son of Man enter upon his Reign.

(LXX)

(Metaglottisis) Αλήθεια σας λέω ότι είναι μερικοί από αυτούς που έχουν σταθεί εδώ οι οποίοι δε θα γευτούν θάνατο, ωσότου δουν τον Υιό του ανθρώπου να έρχεται μέσα στη βασιλεία του».

(MKJV) Truly I say to you, There are some standing here who shall not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.

(MRC) "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom."

(MSG) This isn't pie in the sky by and by. Some of you standing here are going to see it take place, see the Son of Man in kingdom glory."

(Murdock) Verily I say to you: There are some persons standing here, who shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(NAB) Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

(NASB) "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

(NET) I tell you the truth,39 there are some standing here who will not40 experience41 death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."42

(New World Translation) Truly I say to YOU that there are some of those standing here that will not taste death at all until first they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

(NIV) I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

(NKJV) "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

(NLT) And I assure you that some of you standing here right now will not die before you see me, the Son of Man, coming in my Kingdom."

(Norsk) Sannelig sier jeg eder: Nogen av dem som her står, skal ikke smake døden før de ser Menneskesønnen komme i sitt rike.

(NRSV) Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

(PBG) Zaprawdę powiadam wam: Są niektórzy z tych, co tu stoją, którzy nie ukuszą śmierci, ażby ujrzeli Syna człowieczego, idącego w królestwie swojem.

(RDCT) Adevărat vă spun că unii din cei ce stau aici nu vor gusta moartea pînă nu vor vedea pe Fiul omului venind în Împărăţia Sa.”

(Rev. Webster+) Verily281 I say3004 [5719] to you5213, There are1526 [5748] some5100 standing2476 [5761] here5602, who3748 shall1089 0 not3364 taste1089 [5667] death2288, till302 2193 they shall see1492 [5632] the Son5207 of man444 coming2064 [5740] in1722 his846 kingdom932.

(RYLT-NT) Verily I say to you, there are certain of those standing here who shall not taste of death till they may see the Son of Man coming in his reign.'

(ROB) Adevărat grăiesc vouă: Sunt unii din cei ce stau aici care nu vor gusta moartea până ce nu vor vedea pe Fiul Omului, venind în împărăţia Sa.

(RST) Истинно говорю вам: есть некоторые из стоящих здесь, которые не вкусят смерти, как уже увидят Сына Человеческого, грядущего в Царствии Своем.

(RSV) Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

(RSVA) Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

(RusVZh+) Истинно281 говорю3004 вам5213: есть1526 некоторые5100 из3588 стоящих2476 здесь5602, которые3748 не3364 вкусят1089 смерти2288, как уже2193, 302 увидят1492, 3588 Сына5207, 3588 Человеческого444, грядущего2064 в1722, 3588 Царствии932 Своем846.

(Schlachter) Wahrlich, ich sage euch, es stehen etliche hier, die den Tod nicht schmecken werden, bis sie des Menschen Sohn haben kommen sehen in seinem Reich!

(TR) amhn legw umin eisin tinev twn wde esthkotwn oitinev ou mh geuswntai qanatou ewv an idwsin ton uion tou anqrwpou erxomenon en th basileia autou

(SRV) De cierto os digo: hay algunos de los que están aquí, que no gustarán la muerte, hasta que hayan visto al Hijo del hombre viniendo en su reino.


(SVD) اَلْحَقَّ أَقُولُ لَكُمْ إِنَّ مِنَ الْقِيَامِ هَهُنَا قَوْماً لاَ يَذُوقُونَ الْمَوْتَ حَتَّى يَرَوُا ابْنَ الإِنْسَانِ آتِياً فِي مَلَكُوتِهِ».

(TAB) Katotohanang sinasabi ko sa inyo, May ilan sa nangakatayo rito, na hindi matitikman sa anomang paraan ang kamatayan, hanggang sa kanilang makita ang Anak ng tao na pumaparito sa kaniyang kaharian.

(TKJV) เราบอกความจริงแก่ท่านทั้งหลายว่า ในพวกท่านที่ยืนอยู่ที่นี่ มีบางคนที่ยังจะไม่รู้รสความตาย จนกว่าจะได้เห็นบุตรมนุษย์เสด็จมาในราชอาณาจักรของท่ าน"

(TRC) Verily I say unto you, some there be among them that here stand, which shall not taste of death, till they shall have seen the son of man come in his kingdom.

(The Scriptures '98) “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death at all until they see the Son of Aḏam coming in His reign:”

(TS98) "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death at all until they see the Son of Aḏam coming in His reign:"

(TCNT) I tell you, some of those who are standing here will not know death till they have seen the Son of Man coming into his Kingdom."

(UBIO) Поправді кажу вам, що деякі з тут-о приявних не скуштують смерти, аж поки не побачать Сина Людського, що йде в Царстві Своїм.

(UPDV) Who then is the faithful and wise slave, whom his lord has set over his household, to give them their food in due season?

(Vamvas) Αληθώς σας λέγω, είναι τινές των εδώ ισταμένων, οίτινες δεν θέλουσι γευθή θάνατον, εωσού ίδωσι τον Υιόν του ανθρώπου ερχόμενον εν τη βασιλεία αυτού.

(Vulgate) amen dico vobis sunt quidam de hic stantibus qui non gustabunt mortem donec videant Filium hominis venientem in regno suo

(WEB) Most certainly I tell you, there are some standing here who will in no way taste of death, until they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom."

(Webster) Verily I say to you, There are some standing here, who shall not taste death, till they shall see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(WmsNT) I solemnly say to you, some of the people standing here will certainly live to see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

(WORNT) And I tell you of a truth, there be some of those standing here, who shall not taste of death, till they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

(WycliffeNT) Treuli Y seie to you, `ther ben summe of hem that stonden here, whiche schulen not taste deth, til thei seen mannus sone comynge in his kyngdom.

(YLT) Verily I say to you, there are certain of those standing here who shall not taste of death till they may see the Son of Man coming in his reign.'



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 11:13 PM
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If they "shall noy taste of death" then what kind of existance do they have, if it is not the physical life?



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by only onus
If they "shall noy taste of death" then what kind of existance do they have, if it is not the physical life?


Well if you think about it in the context that I see it, is they get eternal life and never see the 'second' death.



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 11:32 PM
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But if they shall not taste of death, then dosent that mean that they wont die at all? even physically?



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by only onus
But if they shall not taste of death, then dosent that mean that they wont die at all? even physically?


Some will be changed in the twinkling of an eye........



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 12:33 AM
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That refers to the second comming. What are they doing untill then?



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 06:07 AM
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I haven't seen him...... or her. The apostle John who penned Revelations may have been a woman. That is my proposal. Joanna, mentioned in Luke in the KJAV bible as being at the tomb with Mrs. Yehoshua Bar Joseph, nee Mary Magdalene, and John could be one and the same. It explains a lot.
And the similarity of the ancient names is very close. The most beloved disciple, whose accounts of the crucifixion are quite different than the other three, might have been a lady. Or not. Just a proposal.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I haven't seen him...... or her. The apostle John who penned Revelations may have been a woman. That is my proposal. Joanna, mentioned in Luke in the KJAV bible as being at the tomb with Mrs. Yehoshua Bar Joseph, nee Mary Magdalene, and John could be one and the same. It explains a lot.
And the similarity of the ancient names is very close. The most beloved disciple, whose accounts of the crucifixion are quite different than the other three, might have been a lady. Or not. Just a proposal.


Have you been
?

John a woman? No I dont think so.....I dont think there is anything to support it.

Where in the heck did you get that?



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 07:10 PM
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I havnt really looked into this subject much... but I will toss these two parts of scripture onto the table for you to look at...

For this one, you may want to look at the strongs dictionary for the original word for 'coming'. It has an alternate meaning of 'appear'.

Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him.

so then... "until they see the Son of man appear in his kingdom

Then there is this...

Act 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Act 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
Act 7:58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.


You neednt look for people to live for thousands of years. I personally feel it is the transfiguration. This second one also qualifies tho



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 09:54 PM
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Wait a min Ed,what Blackguard says could well be very true!. John ( Yohanna) could very well be a woman. An Theyve taken "Jesus" ( greek-latin) mixed him with mythology an John baptist was really " John Christ" he could of very well come back as a woman. :w: LOL
I for one beliveve in reincarnation. This was taught in early scriptures.
Blackguard I know what you mean because I have eyes to see



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by Chasrac64 I for one beliveve in reincarnation. This was taught in early scriptures.


Well you really need to do some research on the 'early' scriptures then. You can not have resurrection AND reincarnation. Its one or the other.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 11:14 PM
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I misread the original post...My Bad... But Ed, I have heard before that The Book Of Rev. is an older text...like from B.C. I think this was a greek scholor on a program on the History Channel. an he claimed this was not the Author of Rev. It was not a John.
Now he also said that the copy we have is a copy from a much older text.
Just thought I would add this here.
Now about the Resurection , Thats all in how you could take this. I for one am a bit confused on this until I further study more on this.
Theres so much debate on this subject.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by Chasrac64
I misread the original post...My Bad... But Ed, I have heard before that The Book Of Rev. is an older text...like from B.C. I think this was a greek scholor on a program on the History Channel. an he claimed this was not the Author of Rev. It was not a John.
Now he also said that the copy we have is a copy from a much older text.
Just thought I would add this here.
Now about the Resurection , Thats all in how you could take this. I for one am a bit confused on this until I further study more on this.
Theres so much debate on this subject.


John was and is the most likely author of Revelation. The same one that wrote the Gospel, but that is only speculation by those much smarter than you or I.

As for reincarnation, it is directly contradictory to what the Bible teaches and leans toward the Gnostic version , which the early Church considered heresy.

I hope you find what you seek.



posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 12:23 AM
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I will keep searching... hey what else do I have to do here, but to learn. I like to look at all views



posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 01:56 AM
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At the empty tomb, who would you predict would arrive at the tomb first that morning? Those who were closest to Him would.
Luke 24:10 "It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James........."
John 1:29 "Behold the lamb of God" This is John the Baptist being quoted, and the lamb of God he is referring to is Jesus.
Revelations 21:9, (note the similar verse numbers, considering both chapters are by John). "Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the lamb's wife."

It is clear that Mary is very close to Him, and that John, the sole recorder of the Canaa wedding is also very close to Him.
Giovanna is the feminine form of Giovanni. Iohannas is the feminine for Iohannes, and Joanna is the feminine form of John, all three are examples of the same name, John. Interestingly, Joan is not from John. Just the name Joanna.
John writes Revelations, John describes the crucifixion quite differently than the other 3 'synoptic?' gospels, (synoptic, of one eye....lol)
In the KJAV, Luke 3:27 which is Jesus' dad's lineage, (else why put it in there?), it reads...." Which was the son of Joanna, which was the SON of Rhesa."

The bible... thats where I got it, to answer your question. Personal attacks are the resort of those who have nothing better to offer in response, they are not flattering to the attacker, and do not reflect anything about the target, but are only reflecting the views of the attacker.



posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 02:07 AM
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You have voted Chasrac64 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

I was born in 64, and the Beatles were on Ed Sullivan the day after I was born, I want to hold your hand was number one, I think... So in honour of the Beatles I offer this supporting evidence that John is Joanna.
"JoJo was a man who thought he was a woman, but he was another man."
Is that proof enough or what? The Beatles were no dummies....
Of course the above is just some comic relief, but another thing I could see as a way that the gender of an NT character may have changed over time would be that early church fathers, in order to masculinize the church, and remove any power from women, might edit the name to the male version.
If they were looking for one that was easy to change, that is the one they would pick. Pure speculation on my part. It would not surprise me though.



posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 10:19 AM
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I never knew that... your right it does say this...LOL.. how did I ever miss this!
maybe together we can figure this out... I do believe that there were more woman that were disiples then Men, No offence now to the Men out there, but I know from my studies that King James group were very Anti-women. Also King James preffered little boys over Women.
I just think Women played a bigger role then whats being told .
you have to understand that back in them days,( dark ages) People couldnt freely express there selves and they surpressed alot of Scriptures as far as what the truth really held. They had to Hide scriptuares an this is now why we are finding them buried. Women were more important then whats being told today.
For some reason they have supressed the femine divine.



posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger

John was and is the most likely author of Revelation. The same one that wrote the Gospel, but that is only speculation by those much smarter than you or I.



Well, a man named John is thought to be the most likely author of Revelations but not the John that many Christians believe. John the Divine is often thought to be the author and/or ascribe the visions and prophecies to him during his exile on the island of Patmos off the coast of modern Turkey. He was a follower of John the Baptist until Jesus recruited him. Many other scholars believe that Revelations was actually written by followers of John the Divine.

There's a good primer/summary on this page (scroll down to the boxed text):
www.saintpatrickdc.org...

BTW - I expect that edsinger knows all of this and more but many others do not.



posted on Aug, 29 2005 @ 08:42 PM
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2 Peter 1:16-18 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

The Messiah said that His Kingdom was not of this world. - John 18:36

The only way that Peter could truthfully claim that he SAW the Messiah in HIS MAJESTY, was if the transfiguration event were in actuality, a VISITATION of the Kingdom from above. The Messiah at no point was seen by anyone else on earth as THE CROWNED KING IN HIS MAJESTIC SPLENDOR, because while He was on earth, He was NOT IN HIS KINGDOM.

The verses in question are referring to the transfiguration on the holy mount. The only three persons within earshot of the Messiah which were eyewitnesses of HIS MAJESTIC SPLENDOR, were John, James, and Peter; and they have all tasted death, but not until after they witnessed the Messiah as a CROWNED KING!!! In other words, only they could rightly say, they saw Him as KING, whereas, every other apostle SAW Him only as the suffering servant, the teacher of righteousness, the slain lamb, and the resurrected master, but NEVER, as the CROWNED KING.




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